Dinosaurs...

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nonanon:
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Originally Posted by buffalo
What say you about the soft tissue finds?
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I don’t see that they support the assertion that humans coexisted with dinosaurs.
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grisda.org/origins/12008.htm

The amino acids found in the dinosaur soft tissue should only have survived “a few million years at best”.

Which is, incidentally, about as old as our human ancestors are!
 
You said:
grisda.org/origins/12008.htm The amino acids found in the dinosaur soft tissue should only have survived “a few million years at best”. Which is, incidentally, about as old as our human ancestors are!
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Why confine your theory to Catholic Answers? Earn a doctorate, get a job, and present your findings to the scientific world. Critical feedback should give you some sense as to whether you are on to something that hundreds of thousands of scientists haven’t noticed. Otherwise you can continue pottering around on the Internet, bothering a few people here and there.
 
rossum said:
On a very few occasions some very decayed, but still surviving, soft tissue has been found. amino acid sequencing showed that it was closer to a chicken than to modern reptiles, hence tending to confirm that modern birds evolved from dinosaurs.

We also have many fossils of soft tissue, where there is none of the original biological material left, but it has all been replaced by stone. Some people mistake such finds for actual surviving soft tissue, as I described in the first paragraph.

rossum
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Stone is not elastic. When you find a stretchy material it is not stone and therefore is soft tissue.
 
nonanon said:
I don’t see that they support the assertion that humans coexisted with dinosaurs.
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There are two options:
  1. Soft tissue does not survive 65 million years and is therefore recent.
  2. The peer-reviewed research that shows soft tissue does not survive is wrong.
 
StAnastasia said:
Granny, what do you have against either piety or hope?
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What a funny question – for a Thanksgiving morning.

I see piety and hope everywhere.

Especially this morning at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. For his homily, Father read the First Thanksgiving Proclamation given by President George Washington, October 3,1789. gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/thanksgiving/transcript.html

I see piety and hope everywhere. Especially in the Catholic Church which remains true to Catholic doctrine. No substituting for Catholicism. It sticks to the real thing regarding the real origin of humanity.

I also see hope that my dying plant will continue to bring life up from the roots. Every leaf died. Nonetheless, the root must be very strong because there are two tiny shoots of green poking up between the dirt.

This reminds me.
I heard that there are a few, not all, Catholics who want to tear away some basic doctrines (like leaves) from the plant (Catholicism). No worry. The roots of Catholicism are strong-- covered with dirt (wisdom and strength ) of the Holy Spirit. All are protected from the foul winds of the movement to change the Catholic Church from the inside.
 
buffalo said:
ScienceDaily (June 9, 2009) — Researchers at Oregon State University have made a fundamental new discovery about how birds breathe and have a lung capacity that allows for flight – and the finding means it’s unlikely that birds descended from any known theropod dinosaurs.

Buffalo, your relief may be short-lived, if you think that we now have proof that evolutionary theory is wrong and that an ancient cosmogonic tale told around the campfire by desert nomads is correct. Read further in the article:

“We aren’t suggesting that dinosaurs and birds may not have had a common ancestor somewhere in the distant past,” Quick said. “That’s quite possible and is routinely found in evolution. It just seems pretty clear now that birds were evolving all along on their own and did not descend directly from the theropod dinosaurs, which lived many millions of years later.”
“Frankly, there’s a lot of museum politics involved in this, a lot of careers committed to a particular point of view even if new scientific evidence raises questions,” Ruben said. In some museum displays, he said, the birds-descended-from-dinosaurs evolutionary theory has been portrayed as a largely accepted fact, with an asterisk pointing out in small type that “some scientists disagree.”

“Our work at OSU used to be pretty much the only asterisk they were talking about,” Ruben said. “But now there are more asterisks all the time. That’s part of the process of science.”
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buffalo said:
There are two options:
  1. Soft tissue does not survive 65 million years and is therefore recent.
  2. The peer-reviewed research that shows soft tissue does not survive is wrong.
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  1. buffalo is wrong, and in rare circumstances degraded soft tissue can survive 65 million years.
  2. the scientists are incorrect, and what they thought was dinosaur soft tissue was actually a microbial mat.
  3. We don’t know.
Remember that for any scientific question, “We don’t know” is a possible answer.

rossum
 
rossum said:
  1. buffalo is wrong, and in rare circumstances degraded soft tissue can survive 65 million years.
  2. the scientists are incorrect, and what they thought was dinosaur soft tissue was actually a microbial mat.
  3. We don’t know.
Remember that for any scientific question, “We don’t know” is a possible answer.

rossum
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Thank you rossum. 👍
 
StAnastasia said:
Granny, what do you have against either piety or hope?
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What a funny question – for a Thanksgiving morning.

I see piety and hope everywhere.

Especially this morning at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. For his homily, Father read the First Thanksgiving Proclamation given by President George Washington, October 3,1789. gwpapers.virginia.edu/documen…ranscript.html

I see piety and hope everywhere. Especially in the Catholic Church which remains true to Catholic doctrine. No substituting for Catholicism. It sticks to the real thing regarding the real origin of humanity.

I also see hope that my dying plant will continue to bring life up from the roots. Every leaf died. Nonetheless, the root must be very strong because there are two tiny shoots of green poking up between the dirt.

This reminds me.
I heard that there are a few, not all, Catholics who want to tear away some basic doctrines (like leaves) from the plant (Catholicism). No worry. The roots of Catholicism are strong-- covered with dirt (wisdom and strength of the Holy Spirit.)
All are protected from the foul winds of the movement to change the Catholic Church from the inside.
 
You said:
grisda.org/origins/12008.htm

The amino acids found in the dinosaur soft tissue should only have survived “a few million years at best”.

Which is, incidentally, about as old as our human ancestors are!
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It’s a bit stunning that you would misquote something you yourself linked. The paper actually reads “Since detectable levels of many amino acids are expected to survive only a few million years, at best, these observations are an enigma (Abelson 1956, 1957).” In other words there were observations at variance with theory at the time the paper was published in 1985. Even then the sentence is in an introductory paragraph and not the conclusions, which are quite tentative and not at all cut and dried.

The paper is 26 years old and was produced by “an official institute of the Seventh-day Adventist Church”, the church which started the Creationist movement, so it may not be neutral. I’m no expert in these things - do you have more recent Catholic or secular research to back up the claim?
 
inocente said:
It’s a bit stunning that you would misquote something you yourself linked. The paper actually reads “Since detectable levels of many amino acids are expected to survive only a few million years, at best, these observations are an enigma (Abelson 1956, 1957).” In other words there were observations at variance with theory at the time the paper was published in 1985. Even then the sentence is in an introductory paragraph and not the conclusions, which are quite tentative and not at all cut and dried.

The paper is 26 years old and was produced by “an official institute of the Seventh-day Adventist Church”, the church which started the Creationist movement, so it may not be neutral. I’m no expert in these things - do you have more recent Catholic or secular research to back up the claim?
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It is not misquoted, we are talking about dinosaurs, the amino acids in dinosaurs like any other amino acids are expected to survive "a few million years, at best, ".

I have no idea who they are, or were, but there is a huge list of references at the bottom for you to peruse if you so desire.
 
inocente said:
  • do you have more recent Catholic or secular research to back up the claim?
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this here and this and this…

“We believe protein lasts in a useful form ten times as long as DNA which is normally only useful in discoveries of up to 100,000 years old in Northern Europe. The implications are that we can use collagen sequencing to look at very old extinct animals. It also means we can look through old sites and identify remains from tiny fragments of bone.”

Protein lasts up to 1 million years.

Mr. Dinosaur has 80 million year-old protein.
 
**HMMMMMMM!:hmmm: Very very very interesting…
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Watery secret of the dinosaur death pose

Recreating the spectacular pose many dinosaurs adopted in death might involve following the simplest of instructions: just add water.
When palaeontologists are lucky enough to find a complete dinosaur skeleton – whether it be a tiny Sinosauropteryx or an enormous Apatosaurus – there’s a good chance it will be found with its head thrown backwards and its tail arched upwards – technically known as the opisthotonic death pose. No one is entirely sure why this posture is so common, but Alicia Cutler and colleagues from Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah, think it all comes down to a dip in the wet stuff.

more…
 
You said:
this here and this and this…

“We believe protein lasts in a useful form ten times as long as DNA which is normally only useful in discoveries of up to 100,000 years old in Northern Europe. The implications are that we can use collagen sequencing to look at very old extinct animals. It also means we can look through old sites and identify remains from tiny fragments of bone.”

Protein lasts up to 1 million years.

Mr. Dinosaur has 80 million year-old protein.
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The statement about the length of time protein lasts is not based on a “mathematical” deductive proof–it’s empirical. It only takes one counterexample to refute. Now we have that.
 
nonanon said:
The statement about the length of time protein lasts is not based on a “mathematical” deductive proof–it’s empirical. It only takes one counterexample to refute. Now we have that.
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A protein molecule is not a maths equation. Natural decomposition occurs to protein not to maths.
 
Unexpected Exoskeleton Remnants Found in Paleozoic Fossils
ScienceDaily (Feb. 7, 2011) — Surprising new research shows that, contrary to conventional belief, remains of chitin-protein complex – structural materials containing protein and polysaccharide – are present in abundance in fossils of arthropods from the Paleozoic era. Previously the oldest molecular signature of chitin-protein complex was discovered in 25-million-year-old Cenozoic fossils and remnants of structural protein have also been discovered in 80 million-year-old Mesozoic fossils.

more
 
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