Dinosaurs...

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grannymh said:
I see piety and hope everywhere.
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Good!
I see piety and hope everywhere. Especially in the Catholic Church which remains true to Catholic doctrine. No substituting for Catholicism. It sticks to the real thing regarding the real origin of humanity.
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Excellent.
I heard that there are a few, not all, Catholics who want to tear away some basic doctrines (like leaves) from the plant (Catholicism). No worry. The roots of Catholicism are strong-- covered with dirt (wisdom and strength of the Holy Spirit.) All are protected from the foul winds of the movement to change the Catholic Church from the inside.
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Great!
 
You said:
this here and this and this…

“We believe protein lasts in a useful form ten times as long as DNA which is normally only useful in discoveries of up to 100,000 years old in Northern Europe. The implications are that we can use collagen sequencing to look at very old extinct animals. It also means we can look through old sites and identify remains from tiny fragments of bone.”

Protein lasts up to 1 million years.

Mr. Dinosaur has 80 million year-old protein.
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Thanks … but how do these papers respond to nonanon’s “I don’t see that they support the assertion that humans coexisted with dinosaurs” any better than the paper you linked in post #100? :confused:
 
Amanda_B said:
Dinosaurs went extinct, along with numerous other species, from the meteor that struck the earth 65 million years ago in what is modern day Mexico.
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I actually know the guy who discovered that crater. 🙂
 
You said:
this here and this and this…

“We believe protein lasts in a useful form ten times as long as DNA which is normally only useful in discoveries of up to 100,000 years old in Northern Europe. The implications are that we can use collagen sequencing to look at very old extinct animals. It also means we can look through old sites and identify remains from tiny fragments of bone.”

Protein lasts up to 1 million years.

Mr. Dinosaur has 80 million year-old protein.
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You said:
Unexpected Exoskeleton Remnants Found in Paleozoic Fossils
ScienceDaily (Feb. 7, 2011) — Surprising new research shows that, contrary to conventional belief, remains of chitin-protein complex – structural materials containing protein and polysaccharide – are present in abundance in fossils of arthropods from the Paleozoic era. Previously the oldest molecular signature of chitin-protein complex was discovered in 25-million-year-old Cenozoic fossils and remnants of structural protein have also been discovered in 80 million-year-old Mesozoic fossils.
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So the more recent paper shows protein remnants 80+ million years old? It seems to me you’re contradicting yourself–how is it that this is acceptable evidence, but the dinosaur protein is not?

Because the conditions for formation and preservation of fossils vary, and aren’t completely known, there’s no way to prove that protein can never survive past a certain time. But it looks like there’s a growing body of empirical evidence that proteins and protein remnants have, in fact, survived on fossils for at least tens of millions of years.
 
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No wonder there is so much confusion…

Who would have guess Giraffes were around then too???

What more evidence do you need? 😉
 
nonanon said:
But it looks like there’s a growing body of empirical evidence that proteins and protein remnants have, in fact, survived on fossils for at least tens of millions of years.
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Of course - that has to be the explanation. :rolleyes:
 
nonanon said:
So the more recent paper shows protein remnants 80+ million years old? It seems to me you’re contradicting yourself–how is it that this is acceptable evidence, but the dinosaur protein is not?

Because the conditions for formation and preservation of fossils vary, and aren’t completely known, there’s no way to prove that protein can never survive past a certain time. But it looks like there’s a growing body of empirical evidence that proteins and protein remnants have, in fact, survived on fossils for at least tens of millions of years.
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But its worse than that, I think. You seem prepared to accept that protein can survive maybe tens of millions of years but the scorpion protein they are talking about was dated to 410 million years old. Thats nearly half a billion years old, a lot longer than my old sandwiches ever lasted.
 
inocente said:
Thanks … but how do these papers respond to nonanon’s “I don’t see that they support the assertion that humans coexisted with dinosaurs” any better than the paper you linked in post #100? :confused:
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They don’t, they were responding to your query.
 
You said:
But its worse than that, I think. You seem prepared to accept that protein can survive maybe tens of millions of years but the scorpion protein they are talking about was dated to 410 million years old. Thats nearly half a billion years old, a lot longer than my old sandwiches ever lasted.
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Mammoths more than 35000 years old have been found almost perfectly preserved. And the amino acid recently found in comet dust may be much older than 400 million years. I conclude it’s not that unusual to find organic matter that’s been around longer than your old sandwiches, and 80 million years on a well-preserved fossil is plausible.

But I still haven’t seen any evidence supporting the idea that humans coexisted with dinosaurs.
 
nonanon said:
Mammoths more than 35000 years old have been found almost perfectly preserved. And the amino acid recently found in comet dust may be much older than 400 million years. I conclude it’s not that unusual to find organic matter that’s been around longer than your old sandwiches, and 80 million years on a well-preserved fossil is plausible.

But I still haven’t seen any evidence supporting the idea that humans coexisted with dinosaurs.
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Some mammoths were frozen when found. Amino acids and proteins are different things. Water breaks protein down into its amino acids. Fossils were all buried quickly through the action of water and/or preserved in low oxygen or acidic water, and fossils remained buried for hundreds of millions of years more often than not below the water table.:hmmm:
 
You said:
Some mammoths were frozen when found. Amino acids and proteins are different things. Water breaks protein down into its amino acids. Fossils were all buried quickly through the action of water and/or preserved in low oxygen or acidic water, and fossils remained buried for hundreds of millions of years more often than not below the water table.:hmmm:
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I take the continued silence on the question of evidence to mean that you’ve abandoned the idea that humans coexisted with dinosaurs. Is that right? Have you any evidence for that view?
 
nonanon said:
So it sounds like you’ve abandoned the idea that humans coexisted with dinosaurs. Due to the lack of evidence?
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The lack of evidence could indicate dinosaurs and humans were separated by hundreds of miles of sea not necessarily hundreds of millions of years of time, especially as dinosaurs are being discovered with organic tissue, blood vessels and possibly blood cells.
 
You said:
The lack of evidence could indicate dinosaurs and humans were separated by hundreds of miles of sea not necessarily hundreds of millions of years of time, especially as dinosaurs are being discovered with organic tissue, blood vessels and possibly blood cells.
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So there’s no evidence of humans and dinosaurs coexisting. I don’t see how “distance” can address the difference in age between the closest human / dinosaur fossils (more than 320x the time humans have existed on earth).
 
nonanon said:
So there’s no evidence of humans and dinosaurs coexisting. I don’t see how “distance” can address the difference in age between the closest human / dinosaur fossils (more than 320x the time humans have existed on earth).
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The only absolute proof of co-existence would be human and dinosaur intertwined skeletons, but, as they could have lived separated by hundreds of miles of sea then absolute proof either way is very difficult to see.
If I found a fresh sandwich in a rock and the rock was dated as 410 million years old then I might be chary of believing to quickly in the date and might even eat the sandwich to see what I think myself.
 
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