Dinosaurs...

[inocente]

But Divine revelation presumably cannot teach error, so it must be our interpretation of that revelation that is in error.

Re. the cartoon you posted, there is an argument (of sorts) that God did bury fossils, and He did it to test our faith – a True Christian™ would never believe such misleading evidence and would believe in YEC instead. QED.

 

[StAnastasia]

Re. the cartoon you posted, there is an argument (of sorts) that God did bury fossils, and He did it to test our faith – a True Christian™ would never believe such misleading evidence and would believe in YEC instead. QED.

What is a “True Christian”? Whose version?

 

[edwest2]

I think this issue has less to do with facts and more to do with politics. Apparently, God cannot perform miracles. Divine Revelation tells us two individuals were our first parents, it’s as simple as that. They freely committed the Original Sin and a redeemer was required, which is why Jesus Christ, fully man and fully God, was born. He exhibited the attributes of God in an unambiguous way: gave sight to the blind, healed the lepers, and raised the dead, as He, Himself, rose from the dead. Constantly insisting that certain bits of scientific information be applied to the Bible is the same as a modern-day scientist watching Jesus raise the dead without technology - instantly, and having no scientific means to determine how it was done. For God, all things are possible.

Science has its uses and its own sphere. It cannot define God or what He is capable of doing. Why this issue has any relevance to modern biology is beyond me. Modern biology is concerned with things that are alive now, and has limited use in analyzing organisms that have died. Respectfully, scientific progress created “dark matter” just a little while ago. Is it actually out there? I think the idea that dinosaurs and man having lived together has some validity.

Finally, in considering the various catastrophes the earth has gone through, according to science, there was a fossil tree discovered alive in Australia:

news.nationalgeographic.co.in/news/2007/04/070427-wollemi-video.html

It does no disservice to science to consider the possibility that man and dinosaurs co-existed.

Peace,
Ed

 

[StAnastasia]

I think the idea that dinosaurs and man having lived together has some validity. Peace, Ed

Ed, the idea of the existence of the Tooth Fairy has no less validity.

 

[tonyrey]

And yet, some people are always trying to “prove” there is life after death. We have nothing but pious hope and philosophical speculation on this one.

Do you believe the existence of God - or your mind - is nothing but pious hope and philosophical speculation?

 

[StAnastasia]

Do you believe the existence of God - or your mind - is nothing but pious hope and philosophical speculation?

Tony, what could possibly lead you to that conclusion?

 

[grannymh]

Tony, what could possibly lead you to that conclusion?

Could it be that you shared publically in Post 90, the words “We have nothing but pious hope and philosophical speculation on this one?”

From Post 90
And yet, some people are always trying to “prove” there is life after death. ***We ***have nothing but pious hope and philosophical speculation on this one.

Emphasis mine.

Usually, Catholics believe in Our Lord’s Resurrection. Our belief goes beyond pious hope and especially beyond any form of speculation.

 

[StAnastasia]

Could it be that you shared publically in Post 90, the words “We have nothing but pious hope and philosophical speculation on this one?”

No – that’s Tonyrey’s malicious insinuation about me.

Usually, Catholics believe in Our Lord’s Resurrection.

Of course; your implication that I don’t accept it is false.

Our belief goes beyond pious hope and especially beyond any form of speculation.

What do you have against pious hope and speculation? These are important dimensions to our Catholic hope in the life of the world to come.

 

[grannymh]

Of course; your implication that I don’t accept it is false.

From your post 90, I have no clue what you actually do believe. Here is your post 90

“And yet, some people are always trying to “prove” there is life after death. We have nothing but pious hope and philosophical speculation on this one.” Emphasis mine.

Since this is a public forum, I have the free speech right to give the Catholic position on life after death. This is what I did in post 185. It is as follows.

“Usually, Catholics believe in Our Lord’s Resurrection. Our belief goes beyond pious hope and especially beyond any form of speculation.”

Catholic dogmas are not implications. If I misread your post 90 as being neutral, please accept my apology. The last sentence did seem to be a general one. This is why I presented the Catholic position in clear terminology for the benefit of readers.

What do you have against pious hope and speculation? These are important dimensions to our Catholic hope in the life of the world to come.

My post which used the words “pious hope and especially beyond any form of speculation” is post 185. It is as follows.

“Usually, Catholics believe in Our Lord’s Resurrection. Our belief goes beyond pious hope and especially beyond any form of speculation.”

This is an affirmative statement of Catholic teachings regarding life after death. Readers have the right to know this.

 

[StAnastasia]

Since this is a public forum, I have the free speech right to give the Catholic position on life after death. This is what I did in post 185. It is as follows.

Granny, I think it is unfortunate that you are opposed to pious hope ad philosophical speculation. Where are we without the Christian hope?

 

[grannymh]

Granny, I think it is unfortunate that you are opposed to pious hope ad philosophical speculation. Where are we without the Christian hope?

My post which used the words “pious hope and especially beyond any form of speculation” is post 185. It is as follows.

“Usually, Catholics believe in Our Lord’s Resurrection. Our belief goes beyond pious hope and especially beyond any form of speculation.”

This is an affirmative statement of Catholic teachings regarding life after death. Readers have the right to know this. Of course, people, wearing all kinds of CAF labels, can say what they wish.

Catholicism adds to “pious hope” the certainty of Divine Revelation. In ordinary language, the adding of Divine Revelation does not include opposition to hope, one of the three theological virtues.

Regarding philosophical speculation. This is a reasonable tool which, in past centuries, has been used by the Catholic Church as preparation for major Church Councils. What a lot of people do not realize is that once a doctrine has been properly declared, philosophical speculation ends with the words of the doctrine.
There have been times in the history of the Church when philosophical speculation has been used to further clarify the defined doctrine. Once the clarification has been examined in relationship to Catholic teachings and a decision is made in accord with the Catholic Deposit of Faith, then philosophical speculation on that clarification ends. Even so, philosophical speculation does continue. What is important to remember is that contempory speculations cannot not change the Catholic Church.

Unfortunately, the theological movement to change the Catholic Church considers doctrines as clay to be molded according to contemporary culture. Some, not all, Catholics adhere to the idea that Catholic doctrines should conform to scientists’ latest claims. Some, not all, Catholics adhere to the idea that Catholic doctrines should conform to contemporary cultures.

Please note that it is not the scientists’ claims about dinosaurs that are always the problem. Claims come and go in the material world. The real problem is that some people ignore the distinction between the material world and the spiritual world, between the power of the created and the power of the Creator.

 

[StAnastasia]

Catholicism adds to “pious hope” the certainty of Divine Revelation. In ordinary language, the adding of Divine Revelation does not include opposition to hope, one of the three theological virtues.

Grannymh, I’m so glad to read that you are not opposed to the virtue of hope!

 

[grannymh]

Grannymh, I’m so glad to read that you are not opposed to the virtue of hope!

I have been editing post 189.

Note to you and readers –

The final editing of post 189 may help people to understand the role of philosophical speculation and its relationship to the unchangeable Catholic Deposit of Faith.

What is important to remember is that contemporary speculations, including both philosophical and theological, cannot not change the doctrines of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is not the neighborhood cafeteria.

Currently, readers need to be aware that there are a few, not all, Catholics who for years have been writing and teaching against some basic Catholic doctrines. This is the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Some of these writers and teachers have been exposed, for example, Matthew Fox; but the fall out from their errors continues.

 

[You]

No. The two species are separated by millions of years. The first known dinosaurs were bipedal predators that were one to two metres long. Spondylosoma may or may not be a dinosaur; the fossils (all postcranial) are tentatively dated at 230-232 Million years old. Dinosaurs became extinct approximately 65.5 million years ago.

The term “human” in the context of human evolution refers to the genus Homo, but studies of human evolution usually include other hominids, such as the Australopithecines, from which the genus* Homo* diverged by about 2.3 to 2.4 million years ago in Africa. Scientists have estimated that humans branched off from their common ancestor with chimpanzees about 5–7 million years ago.

Several species and subspecies of Homo evolved and are now extinct, introgressed or extant. Examples include* Homo erectus* (which inhabited Asia, Africa, and Europe) and* Neanderthals* (either* Homo neanderthalensis* or Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) (which inhabited Europe and Asia). Archaic Homo sapiens, the forerunner of anatomically modern humans, evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago. The first modern human civilisation is said to have emerged in ancient Sumer (the cradle of civilisation) 8000 years ago.

Dinosaurs became extinct approximately 65.5 million years ago.

Everyone thinks that. It is because they believe the dinos died in a global extinction event. This event had to selectively kill all large and small land and marine dinosaurs but leave alive small mammals, reptiles, birds, scavengers, and flowering plants etc.
The extinction event pointed at was a meteor strike 65 million years ago which shows up in the fossil and geologic column as a band of iridium rich rock, below which are dinosaur fossils and above which are virtually no dinosaur fossils.
The iridium is said to have come from a meteor strike called the Chicxulub impact. But recent fieldwork by geologists from harvard I believe, has discovered that the Chicxulub meteor hit earth 300,000 years before the iridium layer was laid down.
Nobody believes volcanoes could have caused the extinction event, at most they could contribute but they could not be its cause. Additionally, if the iridium (and the extinction event) had come from volcanic sources then the Deccan Traps would contain at least some iridium, but these massive basalt flows from around the same period, contain no iridium. So volcanic causes for dinosaur extinction become even more problematic.

 

[rossum]

The iridium is said to have come from a meteor strike called the Chicxulub impact. But recent fieldwork by geologists from harvard I believe, has discovered that the Chicxulub meteor hit earth 300,000 years before the iridium layer was laid down.

1. Reference please.
2. We have discovered many meteorite craters. There are no doubt others that we have yet to discover, or that have disappeared. If it wasn’t Chicxulub then it could be another slightly later crater we haven’t discovered yet.

rossum

 

[You]

1. Reference please.
2. We have discovered many meteorite craters. There are no doubt others that we have yet to discover, or that have disappeared. If it wasn’t Chicxulub then it could be another slightly later crater we haven’t discovered yet.

rossum

1. google, I did.
2. maybe, maybe not, neither a meteor nor volcanoes are perfect explanations for everything.

 

[Jim_Baur]

You

What explicitly do you think? (If you do not mind telling it, or retelling it.)

I am puzzled by the complexities of the issues.

Thanks!

If you do not mind, keep it simple and clear.

Thanks!

 

[You]

You

What explicitly do you think? (If you do not mind telling it, or retelling it.)

I am puzzled by the complexities of the issues.

Thanks!

If you do not mind, keep it simple and clear.

Thanks!

Thats an interesting question, Jim. But I would not like to send you on a wild goose chase.

What I am thinking at the moment is about what could or could not deposit iridium, a very rare (and heavy) metal all over the planets surface at the same time.
This deposit is interesting because it seems to mark the end of the dinosaurs. If it was caused by a meteor it is funny that the meteor did kill all the bird-sized dinosaurs on the planet but did not kill all the birds.

 

[rossum]

1. google, I did.

This is science. A request for references is always answered.

Google scholar may help you more than simple google for a scientific paper.

rossum

 

[You]

This is science. A request for references is always answered.

Google scholar may help you more than simple google for a scientific paper.

rossum

If I could find it so can you. Do not worry!