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Jesus’ parables may or may not be based on literal events that have happened, but that does not make them any less important for our faith as Christians. God’s written word in the Bible is not always literal history but it contains truth which leads us to faith, and that faith leads us toward our salvation.
 
The Bible teaches how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go. It is the Young Earth Creationests that say that the Earth is 10,000 (or less) :eek: 😛 years old. Old Earth Creationests have no problem with a 4.5 billion year old Earth. :)🙂
👍 ‘In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth’. God created mankind in his image. How God created the earth and the rest of the universe and how it all evolved over time, I will leave to the scientists to figure out. Because the intelligence of those scientists, and their very being is also created by God. God gave us intelligence to think, ponder, and search for him. For me, advances in astronomy, genetics and other sciences has strengthened my faith in our amazing God!
 
Sorry if I sound silly but I don’t get it. The way I see it is that we either take the bible word for word as Gods word is perfect and the people who spoke his word and then wrote it down were guided by the Holy Spirit. Or we take it as just stories and not literal. We can’t have it both ways especially when people give commentaries on the Bible.
I suggest you begin with what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says about Scripture. It is very enlightening: scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm.

Specifically pay attention to paragraphs 115 - 119, i.e., the “senses” of Scripture.
The way I see it is that we either take the bible word for word as Gods word is perfect and the people who spoke his word and then wrote it down were guided by the Holy Spirit.
Does this mean that all of the descriptions of God in the Bible are 100% accurate? Does God have physical body parts (e.g., arms and legs), does he have feathered wings? Is Jesus a lamb?

One of the most important aspects to Catholic biblical interpretation is the understanding that “God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more” (CCC 106, you can read this from the link above).

The men who wrote the biblical books could not possibly understand the world in the scientific way that we are just beginning to understand it, so why do people (especially Catholics) constantly try to turn the biblical writers into physicists?
 
Many of the older stories in the OT were poetic stories of how things occurred. These were stories written only about 4000 years ago. At that time it would make sense that the only way to describe the creation of the world was to do so poetically. Could you imagine the Bible having things like the Big Bang and evolutionary theory in them 4000 years ago? The fact is that people could only write this kind of information based on the scientific information available to them at the time.

That said, each of the stories in the OT have a point to them. For example, from the first creation story we know that there is one God who existed before all creation. This God created everything. In those days to even say this was quite radical thinking, don’t forget the world at that time was all pagan. We also see that God continuously says “Let us,” the sign of the existence of the Trinity. Then we see God saying to make man in His image. Not necessarily in terms of body, but in spirit.
 
Sorry if I sound silly but I don’t get it. The way I see it is that we either take the bible word for word as Gods word is perfect and the people who spoke his word and then wrote it down were guided by the Holy Spirit. Or we take it as just stories and not literal. We can’t have it both ways especially when people give commentaries on the Bible.
The Scriptures, especially the Old Testament, represent many different literary genres. Different genres require different methods of interpretation.
 
False Dichotomy.
God’s Word in the Bible is Perfect, but since when
was “Not All Literal” equivalent to “Not Perfect” ?
yes, but remember there is literal interpretation and a literal in the sense of that time and place. inerrant does not mean perfect. 👍

God bless
 
If in the bible it says that the lion and other animals lived together and ate grass, how do we explain the Dinosaurs that hunted other animals? The other thing was, how come the bible does not mention the dinosaurs?

Thanks in advance for any help with my questions.
The fact is that if “creationists” had argued in harmony with the Bible instead of insisting that creation was only 6 literal days long only about 6,000 years ago…then perhaps the true creation account could be taught or at least stated in public learning. this is another reason why am still a semi-creationist. one believes that the dinosaurs or their descendents lived with man until the age of job before father Abraham and maybe ( this would be s’well ) until at least 178ish years ago. lions have enemies and so, do chickens geez;
why should not dinosaurs and ancient creatures from God have enemies after the introduction of discord/strife in the universe? in other words may-haps omnivorous …
the bible does mention dinosaurs/similar creatures many times. but, we all did not live then so one tries to understand now. also, based off of the evidence for the four prevelant theories/beliefs the earth is either less than about 10,000 years: between a few million to billions+; or both old and new. one believes in a young earth, and leaving how old creation is: to holy God.

some additional basis plus more discovery
God bless
 
What’s the difference between creationism and intelligent design, surely the creator would create with an intelligent design?
 
If in the bible it says that the lion and other animals lived together and ate grass, how do we explain the Dinosaurs that hunted other animals? The other thing was, how come the bible does not mention the dinosaurs?

Thanks in advance for any help with my questions.
Considering the mounds on mounds of evidence suggesting a very old universe, lack of dinosaurs for the last 65 million years of the fossil record, and the obvious problems of carnivores surviving without being able to kill prey (or certain wasps even being able to reproduce) id say the only logical case for the bible would be to interprate it rather than read it literally.
 
What’s the difference between creationism and intelligent design, surely the creator would create with an intelligent design?
creationism is a belief that has been around for quite a while; whereas, most intelligent design theories are 70 or less years new. most creationism theories at the core reside on God as creator, age of the earth and sometimes all of creation less than a few hundred million years to 6,000 and some years old, at at least a few biblical tales literally in the “modern” sense, and attempts to find evidence of “young-ness”. while most intelligent design theories take a christian atheist or deist view and has at the least; to seek evidence of design in nature, no undirected processes, DNA research, life-sustaining physical architecture of the universe, the geologically rapid origin of biological diversity in the fossil record during the “Cambrian” explosion, and is simply an effort to empirically detect whether the “apparent design” in nature acknowledged by virtually all biologists is genuine design (the product of an intelligent cause) or is simply the product of an undirected process such as natural selection acting on random variations.

Yes, God does. 👍

God bless
 
Oh, come on! :rolleyes:

Not every person who subscribes to the Creation theory thinks the universe is 6000 years old.

How you be Catholic and not believe in Intelligent Design?
How did Catholics, in your view, possibly get along for nearly 2000 years without ID? ID is a very recent theory, originating in the 80s and 90s, I believe.

I think you’re using the term very broadly and quite differently from the way it’s come to be used in recent decades in the U.S., referring to a specific set of scientific arguments about traces of design in nature.

Edwin
 
I think that part of the difficulty here is in how words are being defined.

“Creationism”, in many/most cases, refers specifically to “Young-Earth Creationism” (the earth is less than 10,000 years old and/or “Day-Age” and/or “Gap” ideas).

In another, very real, sense of the word, all Christians who affirm the Creed are “Creationists” in that “We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth”, or Creation “Ex Nihilo” (out of nothing).

In discussions like this one, it is the first definition of “Creationism” which seems to be in use.

For the record, I am not a “Young-Earth” Creationist. What we know about time, and how God operates both in and out of time is, and must be, extremely limited. I find the so-called “proofs” for a young earth/young universe to be at best contorted and unrealistic (and at worst, in some cases, outright fraudulent).

“Intelligent Design” on the other hand is more of a philosophical perspective than either a theological or scientific perspective. While modern understandings of this concept are only a few decades old, precedent can be found in the “Five Ways” of St. Thomas Aquinas who postulated in his “Argument from Design” that “design” must logically presuppose a “designer”. A modern adherent of “Intelligent Design” notes that the order of the physical arrangement of the universe lends credence to the presupposition of a designer.

While “Young-Earth Creationists” obviously also believe in “Intelligent Design”, many (most?) who accept “Intelligent Design” see no incompatibility with modern science. I count myself in this category. (Again, for the record, I have an uncle who is a Ph.D in nuclear engineering – and an extremely devout Christian. He tells me that the more he studies physics, the stronger his faith becomes.)

Just my 2 cents worth . . .
 
If in the bible it says that the lion and other animals lived together and ate grass, how do we explain the Dinosaurs that hunted other animals? The other thing was, how come the bible does not mention the dinosaurs?

Thanks in advance for any help with my questions.
It does but the term dinosaur was not created until 1841.

Peace,
Ed
 
It does but the term dinosaur was not created until 1841.

Peace,
Ed
true but early man, history, legends, and the bible have other names for God’s dinos.The word dinosaur derives from two greek words (deinos) “terrible, powerful, wondrous” + (sauros) “lizard”. So what would a person prior to 1841 call a giant, powerful, wondrous lizard if they saw one? The answer to that question is really quite obvious especially if we look back into the historical record for evidence of giant, powerful, wondrous lizards. just a few of them are; lizard, monster, creature, dragon, tannin, Nerluc, etc …
Code:
   finnally here is just a fraction of correct dinosaur depictions centuries before the "modern" dinosaur discoveries Native American Petroglyphs. Cave and cliff drawings in Utah and Colorado crudely depict certain dinosaur species (dated from 400 A.D. to 1300 A.D.).
Ica Stones. Ceremonial burial stones discovered in Ica, Peru depict numerous species of dinosaurs, some in activities with man (dated from 500 A.D. to 1500 A.D.).
Acambaro Figurines. Ceramic and stone figurines discovered in Acambaro, Mexico represent many species of dinosaurs (dated from 800 B.C. to 200 A.D.).
Dragon Accounts. China, Europe and the Middle East share similar accounts of “dragons” and other beasts. Some cultures revered these creatures. For instance, records of Marco Polo in China show that the royal house kept dragons for ceremonies. In other cultures, it was a great honor to kill these beasts. There are numerous records of warriors killing great beasts in order to establish credibility in a village.
Behemoth, Leviathan and the Dragons of the Bible. Job writes of great creatures, Behemoth and Leviathan, nearly 4000 years ago. Although more recent Bible translations use elephant, hippo or crocodile instead, the original Hebrew does not allow for these interpretations. The word “dragon” (Hebrew: tannin) is used numerous times in the Old Testament, and most directly translates as “sea or land monsters.” in conclusion (Genesis 1:30).

Aquatic life is not mentioned in this verse, although undoubtedly God provided for them.9 Birds, beasts of the earth, and creepers are mentioned. Either all the beasts of the earth (חַיַּת הָאָרֶץ, ḥayyat hā’āreṣ) and all creepers (רֶמֶשׂ, remeś) are equivalent to the animals created previously (vv. 24, 25) or the livestock may end up dying of starvation. This seems to further undercut the idea that God is using taxonomic terms. Instead, it is apparent that there are several different ways of referring to life on earth. This is consistent with more commonly observed patterns in language and undermines the idea that God intended these terms as taxonomic designations.
God bless
 
true but early man, history, legends, and the bible have other names for God’s dinos.The word dinosaur derives from two greek words (deinos) “terrible, powerful, wondrous” + (sauros) “lizard”. So what would a person prior to 1841 call a giant, powerful, wondrous lizard if they saw one? The answer to that question is really quite obvious especially if we look back into the historical record for evidence of giant, powerful, wondrous lizards. just a few of them are; lizard, monster, creature, dragon, tannin, Nerluc, etc …
Code:
   finnally here is just a fraction of correct dinosaur depictions centuries before the "modern" dinosaur discoveries Native American Petroglyphs. Cave and cliff drawings in Utah and Colorado crudely depict certain dinosaur species (dated from 400 A.D. to 1300 A.D.).
Ica Stones. Ceremonial burial stones discovered in Ica, Peru depict numerous species of dinosaurs, some in activities with man (dated from 500 A.D. to 1500 A.D.).
Acambaro Figurines. Ceramic and stone figurines discovered in Acambaro, Mexico represent many species of dinosaurs (dated from 800 B.C. to 200 A.D.).
Dragon Accounts. China, Europe and the Middle East share similar accounts of “dragons” and other beasts. Some cultures revered these creatures. For instance, records of Marco Polo in China show that the royal house kept dragons for ceremonies. In other cultures, it was a great honor to kill these beasts. There are numerous records of warriors killing great beasts in order to establish credibility in a village.
Behemoth, Leviathan and the Dragons of the Bible. Job writes of great creatures, Behemoth and Leviathan, nearly 4000 years ago. Although more recent Bible translations use elephant, hippo or crocodile instead, the original Hebrew does not allow for these interpretations. The word “dragon” (Hebrew: tannin) is used numerous times in the Old Testament, and most directly translates as “sea or land monsters.” in conclusion (Genesis 1:30).

Aquatic life is not mentioned in this verse, although undoubtedly God provided for them.9 Birds, beasts of the earth, and creepers are mentioned. Either all the beasts of the earth (חַיַּת הָאָרֶץ, ḥayyat hā’āreṣ) and all creepers (רֶמֶשׂ, remeś) are equivalent to the animals created previously (vv. 24, 25) or the livestock may end up dying of starvation. This seems to further undercut the idea that God is using taxonomic terms. Instead, it is apparent that there are several different ways of referring to life on earth. This is consistent with more commonly observed patterns in language and undermines the idea that God intended these terms as taxonomic designations.
God bless
I clicked on your links. Not credible. Henry Morris is a fundamentalist “Young Earth Creationist” in the extreme. His book “Scientific Creationism” is a misnomer. “Creationism” yes. “Scientific” no. He does not have the credentials to make the assertions that he makes.

Another source was “Chariot Victor Publishing” – a firm, no longer in business, that specialized in children’s books.

Another source was “Childcraft” – a series of children’s books published by Worldbook Encyclopedia.

The notion that human and dinosaur footprints were found side-by-side in a Texas riverbed has been disproven – and even most “Young Earth Creationists” no longer use that story.

Something else about which you should probably be aware: There have been numerous cases of prominent “Young Earth Creationists” who have either faked or greatly exaggerated their own credentials. The worst offender (to my knowledge) is “Dr.” Ken Hovind, currently serving a lengthy prison sentence. There are others. Check your sources carefully.

Blessings,

David
 
I clicked on your links. Not credible. Henry Morris is a fundamentalist “Young Earth Creationist” in the extreme. His book “Scientific Creationism” is a misnomer. “Creationism” yes. “Scientific” no. He does not have the credentials to make the assertions that he makes.

Another source was “Chariot Victor Publishing” – a firm, no longer in business, that specialized in children’s books.

Another source was “Childcraft” – a series of children’s books published by Worldbook Encyclopedia.

The notion that human and dinosaur footprints were found side-by-side in a Texas riverbed has been disproven – and even most “Young Earth Creationists” no longer use that story.

Something else about which you should probably be aware: There have been numerous cases of prominent “Young Earth Creationists” who have either faked or greatly exaggerated their own credentials. The worst offender (to my knowledge) is “Dr.” Ken Hovind, currently serving a lengthy prison sentence. There are others. Check your sources carefully.

Blessings,

David
👍

do not worry do usually check sources from both “sides” for accuracy of both. :eek:

i agree with you still. am a semi-creationist and do not trust "Creationists " who use inappropriate amounts of information/foundation-less theories/beliefs. 😦 just showed 3 quarters of links for cool pictures and ancient and early history dinosaur name sources. but, not for content or accuracy. the other link ( s8int.com ) is mostly historically and symbolically accurete and also is not a creationist webisite but a semi-christian reseasrch one.
"The notion that human and dinosaur footprints were found side-by-side in a Texas riverbed has been disproven – and even most “Young Earth Creationists” no longer use that story. " agree, most are hoax or do not have enough evidence. the type of evidence i usually think is accurate are; geological, bones, history, myths, legends, fossils, credible evidence, catholic accounts, some oral history, a few plausible theories/beliefs, early mankind, biology, entemology, mammals, and unexplained parts of plausable theories.

God bless
 
I clicked on your links. Not credible. Henry Morris is a fundamentalist “Young Earth Creationist” in the extreme. His book “Scientific Creationism” is a misnomer. “Creationism” yes. “Scientific” no. He does not have the credentials to make the assertions that he makes.

Another source was “Chariot Victor Publishing” – a firm, no longer in business, that specialized in children’s books.

Another source was “Childcraft” – a series of children’s books published by Worldbook Encyclopedia.

The notion that human and dinosaur footprints were found side-by-side in a Texas riverbed has been disproven – and even most “Young Earth Creationists” no longer use that story.

Something else about which you should probably be aware: There have been numerous cases of prominent “Young Earth Creationists” who have either faked or greatly exaggerated their own credentials. The worst offender (to my knowledge) is “Dr.” Ken Hovind, currently serving a lengthy prison sentence. There are others. Check your sources carefully.

Blessings,

David
the childcraft one was using for a simplistic child perspective. ( like innocence, questioning )

God bless
 
How did Catholics, in your view, possibly get along for nearly 2000 years without ID? ID is a very recent theory, originating in the 80s and 90s, I believe.

I think you’re using the term very broadly and quite differently from the way it’s come to be used in recent decades in the U.S., referring to a specific set of scientific arguments about traces of design in nature.

Edwin
No, it’s not recent. Thomas Aquinas:

"Objection 1: It would seem that the world is not governed by anyone. For it belongs to those things to be governed, which move or work for an end. But natural things which make up the greater part of the world do not move, or work for an end; for they have no knowledge of their end. Therefore the world is not governed.

"Objection 2: Further, those things are governed which are moved towards an object. But the world does not appear to be so directed, but has stability in itself. Therefore it is not governed.

"Objection 3: Further, what is necessarily determined by its own nature to one particular thing, does not require any external principle of government. But the principal parts of the world are by a certain necessity determined to something particular in their actions and movements. Therefore the world does not require to be governed.

"On the contrary, It is written (Wis. 14:3): “But Thou, O Father, governest all things by Thy Providence.” And Boethius says (De Consol. iii): “Thou Who governest this universe by mandate eternal.”

"I answer that, Certain ancient philosophers denied the government of the world, saying that all things happened by chance. But such an opinion can be refuted as impossible in two ways. First, by observation of things themselves: for we observe that in nature things happen always or nearly always for the best; which would not be the case unless some sort of providence directed nature towards good as an end; which is to govern. Wherefore the unfailing order we observe in things is a sign of their being governed; for instance, if we enter a well-ordered house we gather therefrom the intention of him that put it in order, as Tullius says (De Nat. Deorum ii), quoting Aristotle *Cleanthes]. Secondly, this is clear from a consideration of Divine goodness, which, as we have said above (Q[44], A[4]; Q[65], A[2]), was the cause of the production of things in existence. For as “it belongs to the best to produce the best,” it is not fitting that the supreme goodness of God should produce things without giving them their perfection. Now a thing’s ultimate perfection consists in the attainment of its end. Therefore it belongs to the Divine goodness, as it brought things into existence, so to lead them to their end: and this is to govern.

"Reply to Objection 1: A thing moves or operates for an end in two ways. First, in moving itself to the end, as man and other rational creatures; and such things have knowledge of their end, and of the means to the end. Secondly, a thing is said to move or operate for an end, as though moved or directed by another thereto, as an arrow directed to the target by the archer, who knows the end unknown to the arrow. Wherefore, as the movement of the arrow towards a definite end shows clearly that it is directed by someone with knowledge, so the unvarying course of natural things which are without knowledge, shows clearly that the world is governed by some reason.

"Reply to Objection 2: In all created things there is a stable element, at least primary matter; and something belonging to movement, if under movement we include operation. And things need governing as to both: because even that which is stable, since it is created from nothing, would return to nothingness were it not sustained by a governing hand, as will be explained later (Q[104], A[1]).

“Reply to Objection 3: The natural necessity inherent in those beings which are determined to a particular thing, is a kind of impression from God, directing them to their end; as the necessity whereby an arrow is moved so as to fly towards a certain point is an impression from the archer, and not from the arrow. But there is a difference, inasmuch as that which creatures receive from God is their nature, while that which natural things receive from man in addition to their nature is somewhat violent. Wherefore, as the violent necessity in the movement of the arrow shows the action of the archer, so the natural necessity of things shows the government of Divine Providence.”

Peace,
Ed
 
No, it’s not recent. Thomas Aquinas:

"Objection 1: It would seem that the world is not governed by anyone. For it belongs to those things to be governed, which move or work for an end. But natural things which make up the greater part of the world do not move, or work for an end; for they have no knowledge of their end. Therefore the world is not governed.

"Objection 2: Further, those things are governed which are moved towards an object. But the world does not appear to be so directed, but has stability in itself. Therefore it is not governed.

"Objection 3: Further, what is necessarily determined by its own nature to one particular thing, does not require any external principle of government. But the principal parts of the world are by a certain necessity determined to something particular in their actions and movements. Therefore the world does not require to be governed.

"On the contrary, It is written (Wis. 14:3): “But Thou, O Father, governest all things by Thy Providence.” And Boethius says (De Consol. iii): “Thou Who governest this universe by mandate eternal.”

"I answer that, Certain ancient philosophers denied the government of the world, saying that all things happened by chance. But such an opinion can be refuted as impossible in two ways. First, by observation of things themselves: for we observe that in nature things happen always or nearly always for the best; which would not be the case unless some sort of providence directed nature towards good as an end; which is to govern. Wherefore the unfailing order we observe in things is a sign of their being governed; for instance, if we enter a well-ordered house we gather therefrom the intention of him that put it in order, as Tullius says (De Nat. Deorum ii), quoting Aristotle *Cleanthes]. Secondly, this is clear from a consideration of Divine goodness, which, as we have said above (Q[44], A[4]; Q[65], A[2]), was the cause of the production of things in existence. For as “it belongs to the best to produce the best,” it is not fitting that the supreme goodness of God should produce things without giving them their perfection. Now a thing’s ultimate perfection consists in the attainment of its end. Therefore it belongs to the Divine goodness, as it brought things into existence, so to lead them to their end: and this is to govern.

"Reply to Objection 1: A thing moves or operates for an end in two ways. First, in moving itself to the end, as man and other rational creatures; and such things have knowledge of their end, and of the means to the end. Secondly, a thing is said to move or operate for an end, as though moved or directed by another thereto, as an arrow directed to the target by the archer, who knows the end unknown to the arrow. Wherefore, as the movement of the arrow towards a definite end shows clearly that it is directed by someone with knowledge, so the unvarying course of natural things which are without knowledge, shows clearly that the world is governed by some reason.

"Reply to Objection 2: In all created things there is a stable element, at least primary matter; and something belonging to movement, if under movement we include operation. And things need governing as to both: because even that which is stable, since it is created from nothing, would return to nothingness were it not sustained by a governing hand, as will be explained later (Q[104], A[1]).

“Reply to Objection 3: The natural necessity inherent in those beings which are determined to a particular thing, is a kind of impression from God, directing them to their end; as the necessity whereby an arrow is moved so as to fly towards a certain point is an impression from the archer, and not from the arrow. But there is a difference, inasmuch as that which creatures receive from God is their nature, while that which natural things receive from man in addition to their nature is somewhat violent. Wherefore, as the violent necessity in the movement of the arrow shows the action of the archer, so the natural necessity of things shows the government of Divine Providence.” 👍

thank You. Is beautifull.

God bless

Peace,
Ed
 
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