Diocese Dishonesty

[whatevergirl]

These might provide some insight.

From newadvent.org/cathen/09699a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/04675a.htm

This person is not a witness, it doesn’t sound like. Witnesses who are called can testify, but she sounds like someone who knows the OP and wants to make things difficult, for whatever reason. Of course, we are hearing one side of this story…but all that aside, lay people who are ‘helping’ judges in these cases should be sworn to secrecy, and not be allowed to ‘informally’ testify behind the scenes. In a court case, witnesses are called to testify in a formal manner–same holds true for annulments. Secrets whispered into a judge’s ear should not be held against the applicant of the annulment.

I would highly recommend to you sadie, that you seek out a lawyer to discuss what is happening, because slander is illegal. You know, there are a lot of people who are in places in this world who have no business being there–and if someone cannot hold facts of an annulment case as confidential, then she should find more suitable work. That’s my advice. I’m really angry over this–can you tell?

 

[sadie2723]

Well, have they heard of slander? If they gossip about your file…and try to ruin your reputation, you can sue them. And I would hire a secular law attorney, because slander is against the law. She should’t be involved at all. I am outraged by this–a lay person who has it out for you, is going to determine your annulment???

Again, thank you for your concern. I assure you that I have thought of secular law. However, what I really want to do is get my annulment through. My first marriage, when I was a Protestant by the way, was in no way sacramental. I have very strong grounds that are well supported by my witnesses. However my ex, who produced no witnesses, never filled out the proper questionnaire, and never took an oath stating that her statements were fact…is getting more weight than my witnesses and I who all agree on every major point. So, I am a little confused.

The bottom line is that this woman has gotten very friendly with my ex wife, and I think she believes her. Further, this woman told me that the defender of the bond had written an “brilliant” defense of the bond that was the source of the problems with my case. I read it: not a single reference to cannon law, not a single reference to any witnesses, and the only arguments presented were those given by my ex. No court in the nation would have taken it seriously.

 

[IrishAm]

Could you clarify, please . . . Does your ex-spouse (who I gather was Catholic at the time of your marriage) want the process to find in favor of maintaining the validity of the marriage? Do you have any idea why??

I only ask because that is a very unusual position for either party following a divorce; the typical response of a hostile witness/exspouse is that they want the declaration of nullity, they just want it to be the other person’s “fault.” Which, of course, the Tribunal isn’t concerned about.

 

[sadie2723]

Could you clarify, please . . . Does your ex-spouse (who I gather was Catholic at the time of your marriage) want the process to find in favor of maintaining the validity of the marriage? Do you have any idea why??

I only ask because that is a very unusual position for either party following a divorce; the typical response of a hostile witness/exspouse is that they want the declaration of nullity, they just want it to be the other person’s “fault.” Which, of course, the Tribunal isn’t concerned about.

Thanks for your question. Neither my ex spouse or I were Catholic at the time of the marriage. After she and I divorced, I made a decision to redefine my life in Christ. I did so through a period of great discernment that led me to the Catholic Church. My ex wife is not Catholic and, to my knowledge, has no desire to convert.

She has moved on with her life, and is now living with a man that she is engaged to marry. Her only interest in the annulment is preventing me from getting married again. That is not just my speculation on the matter…she actually said, “I am fighting this because I think he should never be allowed to marry again.”

Now, I admit that I was not perfect at the time we were married. I was at fault as much as she was. Part of that stemmed from the fact that I had no idea what REAL marriage was. It was not until I became Catholic that I have developed that understanding.

Thus, the answer to your question. She does not want the decree of nullity because she wants to prevent me from getting married. She has no interest in it other than that.

Thanks.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thanks for your question. Neither my ex spouse or I were Catholic at the time of the marriage. After she and I divorced, I made a decision to redefine my life in Christ. I did so through a period of great discernment that led me to the Catholic Church. My ex wife is not Catholic and, to my knowledge, has no desire to convert.

She has moved on with her life, and is now living with a man that she is engaged to marry. Her only interest in the annulment is preventing me from getting married again. That is not just my speculation on the matter…she actually said, “I am fighting this because I think he should never be allowed to marry again.”

Now, I admit that I was not perfect at the time we were married. I was at fault as much as she was. Part of that stemmed from the fact that I had no idea what REAL marriage was. It was not until I became Catholic that I have developed that understanding.

Thus, the answer to your question. She does not want the decree of nullity because she wants to prevent me from getting married. She has no interest in it other than that.

Thanks.

I don’t think someone can ‘fight’ something like this, without just cause. Just because she says that she doesn’t want you to marry again–out of anger, etc…doesn’t mean then the annulment shouldn’t be granted. If it’s objectively discovered that your marriage wasn’t valid, then she really can’t say anything.

Can you go through another channel to continue your annulment process?

 

[the_phoenix]

Praying for you, sadie2723.

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

 

[whatevergirl]

Me, too Just feel you are being treated unfairly. I pray things work out.

 

[sadie2723]

I thank you all! It is a rough time. I may have the chance to refile the annulment in another diocese. We will have to see on that. That is, at this point, my only hope.

I want to thank you all for your prayers and help!

Thank you so much!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Have you tried writing a letter detailing these irregularities to the chancellor of your diocese? Whatever the reason for your marriage failure, if both of you are telling the truth in sworn statement, the diocese would normally render a verdict on that and if you indeed, based on her testimony, were seriously defective, you would be informed that you were ineligible to marry in the Catholic Church either forever, or you could not do so without proper counselling. (Yes, they can do that. The same impediments that kept someone from having a valid marriage, could make it so they could never be validly married.)

Just know that whatever your diocese decides, it has to go to the Archdiocese for a concurring verdict. And if only one side is represented in this case, or your case is not presented at all, then they may not agree with your diocese. Or they may agree and not give the annulment and then you could appeal to Rome.

But I don’t understand the case. If you were so defective that your ex-spouse says you should never be allowed to marry ever again, that would lead an intelligent person to decide the first marriage must have had a serious defect and would thus be null to begin with. By making her case, she proves yours.

 

[YADA]

The fact that your spouse considers herself ‘engaged’ and in preparing for marriage speaks loudly to her underdtandings regarding you rinitial marrige. She maynot want you to be free to marry again but her preparation and expectation to be abketo contract a marrige means that she does not consider the marriage to be ‘in fact’ sacramental…thus [as another poster noted] she has made your cxase for you …

It seems that the case for “sacramentality” is sorely lacking …

This would lead me to believe that your former spouse and the friendship she has made will not affect the decision regarding your case …

It could be that the diocese could require some additonal prenuptial counseling [if they believed some aspect of your former spouses tesitmony ] before allowing you to contract a marriage… but even that is doubltful …

The entire case seems pretty wierd … I would still contact some higher authority at the offic eofthe tribunal or file an appeal if the deceision goes against your case …

 

[Nordar]

Like PuzzleAnnie said, I really think you need to contact your Bishop, I truly am at a loss as to why a lay judge advocate has so much power as to influence your annulment.