Diocese of Trenton refuses to break the rules

[redkim]

“Hammer hitting nail on the head!!!”

There is something more to this. It is an orchestrated plan to lead more into heresy.

Is there any more indication needed on the fact that America has apostasized in regards to the beleif in the Eucharst!?

Do we really need to consider wasting our time on keeping the indult for communion in the hand? The lack of kneeling? Istitutionalized irreverence is leading souls to hell. May the Shepards awake.

They say, that unlike the average joe, when a priest is good, he not only goes to heaven, but he brings many souls with him. And when he is bad he also brings many souls to hell with him.

That being said, I don’t think it’s a conspiracy as you are suggesting. Poor catechesis may be it, even on the part of the priests: their own catechesis is bad.

Or perhaps it is simply the devil getting in to some who have the best of intentions and therefore leading people down the wrong path. Everyone wants to be liked.

 

[thechrismyster]

if you want to play the game, you got to play by the rules.

 

[redkim]

chris:

You mean I can’t change the rules when they don’t suit me? Darn!

 

[thechrismyster]

can you believe the nerve?
“I know that was strike three and i swung and missed… but please, umpire, just one more pitch??” - or - “4th down and inches, the center snaps the ball…the handoff to the fullback, he jumps… he runs, he falls short by one inch, oh wait, the referee just signaled he’s giving the team a FIFTH down to move the ball because the quarterback asked.”
we are really a nation of whiners. people complain about anything and everything.
the chinese and russians don’t need to take up over with nukes, just take away our cell phones and cafe lattes and we’ll roll over like puppies.

 

[redkim]

But it’s not fair!!!

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Catholic29:

This is a very sad case indeed where the family is ignorant on Church teaching and choses to remain that way.

You’re giving the mother far too much credit, imho. She isn’t ignorant. She’s obstinant. She knows that it is a Canon Law. On the news last evening, she said so. Then, she defiantly added that Canon Law is “a manmade law, not God’s Law,” and can therefore be changed…so change it.
She’s on a defiant power trip, and the media is all to happy to fan the flames of dissent whenever the opportunity arises.

 

[redkim]

Panis Angelicas:

You’re giving the mother far too much credit, imho. She isn’t ignorant. She’s obstinant. She knows that it is a Canon Law. On the news last evening, she said so. Then, she defiantly added that Canon Law is “a manmade law, not God’s Law,” and can therefore be changed…so change it.
She’s on a defiant power trip, and the media is all to happy to fan the flames of dissent whenever the opportunity arises.

Either that…or she is completely ignorant that canon law can’t be changed…but I doubt that, given the level to which she has brought this attention…

Yeah, yer right…it’s just plain old defiance. Let her rant all she wants. 2000 years isn’t going to change because of her.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

redkim:

But it’s not fair!!!

Right! It’s not fair!
Does this mom insist that the school cafeteria make a special meal for her child each day?
When attending a birthday party for friend, does the little girl’s mother insist the birthday cake be of rice flour only?
Doubtful.
She adjusts and adapts. She probably carries her lunch, or eliminates the wheat-containing products from her lunch portion without eating them.
At the birthday party, perhaps she brings her own special wheat-free cupcake.
AND at Mass, ADJUSTMENTS for her particular situation have been offered.
But NO DICE.
Mamma is making a statement.
She wants to change Church Law and violate Sacred Tradition.
It’s a power trip.
The child has a condition which is shared by many other Catholics.
They all adjust, but she won’t budge.
Little does she realize that the more you kick the Rock, the more likely you are to get a sore toe.
The infallible Rock isn’t going to budge.
So, spare your toe the pain of it all and ADJUST.

 

[redkim]

Panis Angelicas:

Right! It’s not fair!
Does this mom insist that the school cafeteria make a special meal for her child each day?
When attending a birthday party for friend, does the little girl’s mother insist the birthday cake be of rice flour only?
Doubtful.
She adjusts and adapts. She probably carries her lunch, or eliminates the wheat-containing products from her lunch portion without eating them.
At the birthday party, perhaps she brings her own special wheat-free cupcake.
AND at Mass, ADJUSTMENTS for her particular situation have been offered.
But NO DICE.
Mamma is making a statement.
She wants to change Church Law and violate Sacred Tradition.
It’s a power trip.
The child has a condition which is shared by many other Catholics.
They all adjust, but she won’t budge.
Little does she realize that the more you kick the Rock, the more likely you are to get a sore toe.
The infallible Rock isn’t going to budge.
So, spare your toe the pain of it all and ADJUST.

Panis:

I was being facetious, just in case that didn’t come across.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Somehow I knew you were, but you also know that you nailed the cry of so many others who really mean it!

 

[redkim]

Yeah, I know. And my answer is always “life isn’t fair.” I could go off on a whole tangent on how tolerance is really a sham and stuff…

 

[JimG]

redkim:

Either that…or she is completely ignorant that canon law can’t be changed…

Actually, canon law can be changed. But the question of using bread for the Eucharist is not simply a question of Canon Law. Every sacrament has its own valid matter and form. For the Eucharist, bread is required. This is the matter that Christ used at the last supper, and the church does not consider herself free to change it. Since bread is the proper and valid matter for the sacrament, no consecration takes place without it. If a priest substitutes rice or some other matter, then no consecration is effective, and the communicant would not receive the body and blood of the Lord. Therefore, seeking an exception to the valid matter is counterproductive.

JimG

 

[redkim]

JimG:

Actually, canon law can be changed. But the question of using bread for the Eucharist is not simply a question of Canon Law. Every sacrament has its own valid matter and form. For the Eucharist, bread is required. This is the matter that Christ used at the last supper, and the church does not consider herself free to change it. Since bread is the proper and valid matter for the sacrament, no consecration takes place without it. If a priest substitutes rice or some other matter, then no consecration is effective, and the communicant would not receive the body and blood of the Lord. Therefore, seeking an exception to the valid matter is counterproductive.

JimG

Thanks for the correction!

 

[Timidity]

Associated Press:

Now, Haley Waldman’s mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton…

It seems that all the great problems facing the church were addressed at on of the great councils. Will this lead to the Council of Trenton?

(Get it? Coucil of Trent–on…)

This is why I don’t do stand up.

Anyway, on to my serious point:

Do the words “Americans with Disabilities Act lawsuit” keep running through anyone else’s mind when they read this story? It just feels like a set-up to me. “Yes, your honor, we tried every attempt to resolve this before filing suit.”

I am not, of course, saying that this is what’s happening. I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

 

[redkim]

Timidity:

Don’t worry, it takes MORE courage to get up and repeat a bad joke than to repeat a good one. Bravo brother!!

 

[Llane]

Awwww Man…

This ruins my hopes that the Church will one day let us have pizza and Coke for Communion. Why is the Church being so stingy???

(For the record, this post was completely tongue-in-cheek.)

 

[redkim]

Llane:

Awwww Man…

This ruins my hopes that the Church will one day let us have pizza and Coke for Communion. Why is the Church being so stingy???

(For the record, this post was completely tongue-in-cheek.)

Well, if I had MY way, we’d have Chocolate and coffee…but hey…

 

[stellina]

Timidity:

It seems that all the great problems facing the church were addressed at on of the great councils. Will this lead to the Council of Trenton?

(Get it? Coucil of Trent–on…)

This is why I don’t do stand up.

Anyway, on to my serious point:

Do the words “Americans with Disabilities Act lawsuit” keep running through anyone else’s mind when they read this story? It just feels like a set-up to me. “Yes, your honor, we tried every attempt to resolve this before filing suit.”

I am not, of course, saying that this is what’s happening. I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

I’ll throw in my 2 cents as a former lawyer with some familiarity of the ADA, although I would certainly invite the practicing attorneys out there who are far more knowledgeable than I. If I recall correctly, the ADA was designed to protect handicapped people from certain forms of discrimination, especially housing and employment, and to give them equal access to public facilities, e.g. wheelchair ramps in buildings, buses with lifts, etc. With children, this played out mainly in schools accomodating the child’s special needs, & I would think that the dietary requirements of this particular child would be included.

However, a lawsuit on this particular issue would have more than one big problem, first and foremost the “obstacle” of the guarantee of freedom of religion and the separation of church and state as defined in our Constitution. Basically put, this means that the government (including the courts, which often act as if they operate as their own government), CANNOT dictate the practice of religion. For a court to order that this child be given a rice wafer for Holy Communion is preposterous, not only to us Catholics but to anyone who understands how the law works. This principle has been tested in certain cases involving the Amish and other groups who refused vaccinations for smallpox, tuberculosis, etc., but only because there was a public health issue at stake. My guess is that such a lawsuit would go nowhere not only for these reasons, but also given the evidence that the parents were offered a viable alternative, i.e. the Precious Blood, and refused.

 

[redkim]

I read a bit more on the story today and the mother INDEED was offered the Precious Blood for her daughter. She ain’t takin’.

To me this means she has no clue about what Eucharist is and is using this for political gain.

 

[redkim]

I quote the mother:

“In my mind, I think they must not understand celiac,” said Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman, 30. “It’s just not a viable option. How does it corrupt the tradition of the Last Supper? It’s just rice versus wheat.”

In my mind, I think she does not understand The Eucharist.