Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO?

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Jason_1977

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SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I’m wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks…facts…

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME…) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn’t he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it’s mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck’s Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!! PLEASE, if I’m wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
 
Jason_1977 said:
SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I’m wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks…facts…

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME…) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn’t he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it’s mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck’s Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!! PLEASE, if I’m wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
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SELF Intinction by the laity is wrong.

A priest or deacon may do that and present it to the faithful. In some circumstances, it is even recommended.

As far as a priest doing that in their personal reception of the Eucharist, I’m not too sure if their is something specifically preventing that in the GIRM, especially for concelebrants.

The items are still ‘pure’ because they the same substance, the full and complete Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. The only real difference between the two is how they appear to our human senses.

FYI, having the two species mixed is how it is commonly done in the Eastern Churches, so there is nothing theologically wrong with it at all.
 
Jason_1977 said:
SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I’m wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks…facts…

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME…) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn’t he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it’s mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck’s Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!! PLEASE, if I’m wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
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Receiving communion by intinction is an option, though not the norm in the U.S. If it’s practiced, the communicant should not be the one to intinct (i.e. the minister should intinct the bread/host and that should be received by the communicant).

I really don’t understand what you’re going on about the mixing of the host/wine. Can you rephrase your concern a little, um, more coherently? Thanks.
 
The Church teaches that the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus is FULLY present under BOTH forms (the bread and the wine). The two distinct elements are used to symbolically represent the body and blood of Christ and the sacrificial separation of his body and blood on the cross. On the altar, however, the RISEN Christ is present. Our Lord’s body and blood can no longer be separated - He is no longer dead but alive; thus the Church teaches that even the smallest particle of the host or the smallest drop of the consecated wine is in fact the whole BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY of Jesus Christ. When you present yourself for Holy Communion, you are not simply receiving a ‘part’ of Jesus, but Jesus himself! It is for this very reason that the Church allows the laity to receive under only the form of bread (the Host). In my diocese, it is very rare for the chalice to be distributed at all.

In Jesus, Mary, and Joseph,

Tyler
 

I go to an Eastern Catholic Church and the priest does intiction everytime. I remember the first time I went to a Latin Rite, I was suprised to recieve only the body, because I was young and so used to both at the same time. (And we recieve on the tongue at my Church and when I went to the Latin one I recieved by hand)
Luckily, I just looked at the people in front of me :o​

Anyway, back to your question,
If it were a no-no then the Church would not do it. After 2000 years I’m sure somebody would have thought about it.
But how could you make 2 things that are the purest things on Earth into something impure?
 
Jason_1977 said:
SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine?
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If you were handed the Host after intinction that was incorrect. It should only be received in the mouth.

GIRM 287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction… The priest takes a host, dips it partly into the chalice and, showing it, says, Corpus et Sanguis Christi (The Body and Blood of Christ). *The communicant responds, Amen, receives the Sacrament in the mouth from the priest, and then withdraws. *
 
twf said:
The Church teaches that the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus is FULLY present under BOTH forms (the bread and the wine). The two distinct elements are used to symbolically represent the body and blood of Christ and the sacrificial separation of his body and blood on the cross. On the altar, however, the RISEN Christ is present. Our Lord’s body and blood can no longer be separated - He is no longer dead but alive; thus the Church teaches that even the smallest particle of the host or the smallest drop of the consecated wine is in fact the whole BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY of Jesus Christ. When you present yourself for Holy Communion, you are not simply receiving a ‘part’ of Jesus, but Jesus himself! It is for this very reason that the Church allows the laity to receive under only the form of bread (the Host). In my diocese, it is very rare for the chalice to be distributed at all.

In Jesus, Mary, and Joseph,

Tyler
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It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. I went to a cathedral christmas mass & I was going to dip because among the Harking the herald angels a singin, and silent nights, the sniffling between carols was deafening, LOL…so I elected to DIP mine, but I didnt see anything wrong with it at the time. I usually did it when there was barely any wine at my other church from my childhood, but the deacon or lay person at this service wouldnt let me combine the host with the wine, in fact, he barked at me & said, YOU CONSUME THAT HOST NOW!!! If he wasnt wearing a robe, SO HELP ME…LOL!!! So, after the service, I asked him what the big deal was, & he said, the bread is pure, the wine is pure, if you dip the wine, the host is no longer a pure item before consumption. It is tainted before it touches the mouth…SO…I’m asking the question…what is the big deal, am I wrong in thinking, maybe he’s right?
 
In the early days of the church, they actually experimented with different ways of distributing the Eucharist. Like they would pass it around, or they even tried just putting the host into the ‘wine’ and distributing it with a spoon, its just the way Tradition developed that it is received separately in the Latin Rite.
 
Jason_1977 said:
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. I went to a cathedral christmas mass & I was going to dip because among the Harking the herald angels a singin, and silent nights, the sniffling between carols was deafening, LOL…so I elected to DIP mine, but I didnt see anything wrong with it at the time. I usually did it when there was barely any wine at my other church from my childhood, but the deacon or lay person at this service wouldnt let me combine the host with the wine, in fact, he barked at me & said, YOU CONSUME THAT HOST NOW!!! If he wasnt wearing a robe, SO HELP ME…LOL!!! So, after the service, I asked him what the big deal was, & he said, the bread is pure, the wine is pure, if you dip the wine, the host is no longer a pure item before consumption. It is tainted before it touches the mouth…SO…I’m asking the question…what is the big deal, am I wrong in thinking, maybe he’s right?
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First, it is most certainly not bread and wine, the correct terminology would be Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Communion, Host and Cup, or Eucharist.

That said, the actions of the person was correct, although the explanation a bit off. Intinction, the dipping of the Host in the Cup, is allowed in the Catholic Church, but it MUST be done by the priest or deacon, not by a lay person. We RECEIVE Holy Communion, never take, and dipping would essentially be taking. To receive by intinction, the priest would take the Host, dip it in the Cup, say “The Body and Blood of Christ” and place it on your tongue.

Also a note, not allowing the Body and Blood of Christ to mix would make no sense as the priest does this at ever Mass. He takes a small piece of the Host and places it into the main Chalice while praying quietly “May this mingling of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ bring eternal life to us who receive it.”
 
KarenElissa said:
First, it is most certainly not bread and wine, the correct terminology would be Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Communion, Host and Cup, or Eucharist.

That said, the actions of the person was correct, although the explanation a bit off. Intinction, the dipping of the Host in the Cup, is allowed in the Catholic Church, but it MUST be done by the priest or deacon, not by a lay person. We RECEIVE Holy Communion, never take, and dipping would essentially be taking. To receive by intinction, the priest would take the Host, dip it in the Cup, say “The Body and Blood of Christ” and place it on your tongue.

Also a note, not allowing the Body and Blood of Christ to mix would make no sense as the priest does this at ever Mass. He takes a small piece of the Host and places it into the main Chalice while praying quietly “May this mingling of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ bring eternal life to us who receive it.”
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It wouldn’t need to be done by a priest or deacon. If intinction were allowed, there are provisions that an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, a lay person, could perform this role.
 
Jason_1977 said:
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. /QUOTE]

Was this at Catholic Mass?

I have to ask, are you actually Catholic?
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Jason_1977 said:
SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I’m wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks…facts…

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME…) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn’t he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it’s mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck’s Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!! PLEASE, if I’m wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
Click to expand...
What you are referring to is called “Intinction”. Dipping the Host into the Blood of Christ before receiving it in Holy Communion. What you may not have noticed is that after the Consecration, when the priest fractions or breaks the Host he actually places a very small piece of the Host into the Chalice of the Blood of Christ. The meaning of this is that Christ died on the cross by His blood being separated from His body. This action re-unites His Body and Blood, mystically symbolizing the resurrection. When a person receives either the Body of Christ, the Host or the Blood of Christ, the contents of the chalice, they receive the whole Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
 
…after the Consecration, when the priest fractions or breaks the Host he actually places a very small piece of the Host into the Chalice of the Blood of Christ…This action re-unites His Body and Blood, mystically symbolizing the resurrection.

Thank you for that explanation - I have frequently wondered about the meaning behind this action.
Annie
 
paperwight said:
Jason_1977;5773529:
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. /QUOTE]

Was this at Catholic Mass?

I have to ask, are you actually Catholic?
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YES< this was at a Catholic Mass, I was at Mepkin Abbey. YES, I am catholic. I AM a convert, former Episcopalian. I used to dip in the Church of England, but I went to my first CHRISTMAS mass at the Cathedral, & the deacon or lay person saw me start to walk off w. my host towards the chalice I he barked at me & said, YOU WILL CONSUME THAT HOST N-O-W. After the service (I’m repeating myself…lol) I wanted to know what the big deal was. HE said that if you mix the HOST with the CHALICE, the HOST ceases to BE the host, because it is something pure. THe CHALICE is something pure. When you mix the 2, the one & the one are no longer what they were. THey’re tainted. THAT is what he said. SO, it’s been 2 years & change since then…I JUST came back from a retreat at Mepkin Abbey. A monastery. Where monks are. Catholic ones. The monks were dipping as were priests. I opened my eyes as wide as they’d go. SO, I didnt know if they just happened to be liberal there or what, and I’m trying to find a definitive answer or a RESOURCE I can use to look it up…CCC isn’t helping me much. THANKS.
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paperwight said:
Jason_1977;5773529:
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. /QUOTE]

Was this at Catholic Mass?

I have to ask, are you actually Catholic?
Click to expand...
PS: If you look in the top right corner, it says what my religion is. I had to point that out.
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Jason_1977 said:
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. I went to a cathedral christmas mass & I was going to dip because among the Harking the herald angels a singin, and silent nights, the sniffling between carols was deafening, LOL…so I elected to DIP mine, but I didnt see anything wrong with it at the time. I usually did it when there was barely any wine at my other church from my childhood, but the deacon or lay person at this service wouldnt let me combine the host with the wine, in fact, he barked at me & said, YOU CONSUME THAT HOST NOW!!! If he wasnt wearing a robe, SO HELP ME…LOL!!! So, after the service, I asked him what the big deal was, & he said, the bread is pure, the wine is pure, if you dip the wine, the host is no longer a pure item before consumption. It is tainted before it touches the mouth…SO…I’m asking the question…what is the big deal, am I wrong in thinking, maybe he’s right?
Click to expand...
In the Eastern Rites, the priest breaks the precious body into the precious blood and it is offered to the faithful by only an ordained minister.

In the Latin Rite, both species are considered to complete Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, so if one receives either/or,they are not deprived at all.

The theological reasons for separating the elements during consecration are complicated theologically. Suffice to say that the minister gave you proper direction, but improper explanation. You are not allowed to self-intinct, but it is not a matter of purity, but canon law.

The accidents do not “become impure” if mixed, but the Latin canon law forbids the laity to intinct them.

Not only that, your question is poorly worded. After the consecration, there is no more “host and wine”. These are the appearances of what has become Body and Blood.
 
Jason_1977 said:
paperwight;5773981:
YES< this was at a Catholic Mass, I was at Mepkin Abbey. YES, I am catholic. I AM a convert, former Episcopalian. I used to dip in the Church of England, but I went to my first CHRISTMAS mass at the Cathedral, & the deacon or lay person saw me start to walk off w. my host towards the chalice I he barked at me & said, YOU WILL CONSUME THAT HOST N-O-W. After the service (I’m repeating myself…lol) I wanted to know what the big deal was. HE said that if you mix the HOST with the CHALICE, the HOST ceases to BE the host, because it is something pure. THe CHALICE is something pure. When you mix the 2, the one & the one are no longer what they were. THey’re tainted. THAT is what he said. SO, it’s been 2 years & change since then…I JUST came back from a retreat at Mepkin Abbey. A monastery. Where monks are. Catholic ones. The monks were dipping as were priests. I opened my eyes as wide as they’d go. SO, I didnt know if they just happened to be liberal there or what, and I’m trying to find a definitive answer or a RESOURCE I can use to look it up…CCC isn’t helping me much. THANKS.
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Jason,

Here’s what is happening:

The deacon’s conclusion was correct, but his reasoning was flawed (very very flawed).

No one may self-intinct except a priest. When you receive Communion, it is not permitted for you (or any other layperson) to receive the Host, and dip the Host into the Precious Blood and then consume them–intinction (as you know by now 🙂 ) When the deacon distributes Communion, he has a responsibility to ensure that every single person who receives a Host consumes that Host immediately and in the presence of the deacon. No matter what one’s reasoning, no one is ever permitted to walk away from the deacon with the Host in his hand. So the fact that he stopped you was correct (perhaps he could have done it differently, but can’t be changed).

However, the idea that the Host ceases to be the Body of Christ, or that either consecrated Species is somehow changed by this intincting is (I’m searching for a good word to use here) just plain nonsense. They are certainly not tainted, not by any means.

Since Christ Himself after the Resurrection is a complete body, He has both flesh and blood. There is no such thing as a living human body that has either flesh or blood but not one without the other. One way to think of this is that at the crucifixion, the blood of Christ was “removed” from His body (death), but at the resurrection, the body and blood were re-united and Christ’s body (I mean his literal body, not the Eucharist in this sentence) became once again a whole, complete, and living body of both flesh and bloood.

Since there is no such thing as a living body without blood (or vice-versa) whenever we receive Christ in the Eucharist, we receive both the Body and the Blood, regardless of which species we actually consume (this is called concomitance). I repeat this even though you might already know it (and probably do), but it’s necessary to explain why what you were told just makes no sense.

Since the Blood is already present in the Body, and the Body is already present in the Blood, we aren’t changing anything in the one by adding the other to it by actually dipping the Host into the Blood. The idea that we might “taint” the Body by contact with the Blood is absurd.

So liturgically speaking, the deacon was correct in not allowing this (and what you saw at the Abbey was certainly illicit), he could not have been more wrong in his stated reason for not allowing you to do it. Makes sense?
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And the other confusing thing for Jason (that may have had others questioning his “Catholic” status)…the Anglican/Episcopalian church does allow self-intincting by the laity, which is what Jason observed when he was younger. I, too, have seen it happen in my time in the Anglican church.
 
Jason_1977 said:
paperwight;5773981:
YES< this was at a Catholic Mass, I was at Mepkin Abbey. YES, I am catholic. I AM a convert, former Episcopalian. I used to dip in the Church of England, but I went to my first CHRISTMAS mass at the Cathedral, & the deacon or lay person saw me start to walk off w. my host towards the chalice I he barked at me & said, YOU WILL CONSUME THAT HOST N-O-W. After the service (I’m repeating myself…lol) I wanted to know what the big deal was. HE said that if you mix the HOST with the CHALICE, the HOST ceases to BE the host, because it is something pure. THe CHALICE is something pure. When you mix the 2, the one & the one are no longer what they were. THey’re tainted. THAT is what he said. SO, it’s been 2 years & change since then…I JUST came back from a retreat at Mepkin Abbey. A monastery. Where monks are. Catholic ones. The monks were dipping as were priests. I opened my eyes as wide as they’d go. SO, I didnt know if they just happened to be liberal there or what, and I’m trying to find a definitive answer or a RESOURCE I can use to look it up…CCC isn’t helping me much. THANKS.
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What you were told two years ago was very incorrect.

“HE said that if you mix the HOST with the CHALICE, the HOST ceases to BE the host, because it is something pure. THe CHALICE is something pure. When you mix the 2, the one & the one are no longer what they were. THey’re tainted.”
Click to expand...
 
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