Dipping the host in the wine?

[tsering]

Every other Sunday I go to a chapel in the evening at a local Jesuit college because I’m required to attend school every other Sunday morning. I often see people dipping the host in the wine during communion - I don’t see this at my regular church. Is this normal?

This was at the same mass where a female campus minister (not a deacon or priest) was asked to preach the homily.

Peace

 

[ConstantineTG]

Its called intinction. Only the priest may intinct. If the laity is doing it, it is an abuse.

 

[tsering]

Its called intinction. Only the priest may intinct. If the laity is doing it, it is an abuse.

So why is it being allowed at a Jesuit college of all places? I thought the Jesuit charism was loyalty?

This is a very small chapel and it is very obvious to the priests that this is being done, by a large percentage of people.

Peace

 

[zab]

Here is the quote from [ Redeptionis Sacramentum](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...0423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter IV)that pertains to your question:

[103.] The norms of the Roman Missal admit the principle that in cases where Communion is administered under both kinds, “the Blood of the Lord may be received either by drinking from the chalice directly, or by intinction, or by means of a tube or a spoon”.[191] As regards the administering of Communion to lay members of Christ’s faithful, the Bishops may exclude Communion with the tube or the spoon where this is not the local custom, though the option of administering Communion by intinction always remains. If this modality is employed, however, hosts should be used which are neither too thin nor too small, and the communicant should receive the Sacrament from the Priest only on the tongue.[192]
[104.] The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand. As for the host to be used for the intinction, it should be made of valid matter, also consecrated; it is altogether forbidden to use non-consecrated bread or other matter.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Intinction is specifically prohibited to the laity. There are NO exceptions to this practice.

I would report this practice to the head of this particular College, stating that it is your understanding that intinction of the host is specifically prohibited by lay persons, and asking why this is being permitted at [name the particular chapel and service].

You should receive an answer. If you do not, then report this practice to the local Bishop, who can bring pressure on them to stop this.

 

[zab]

Intinction is specifically prohibited to the laity. There are NO exceptions to this practice.

I would report this practice to the head of this particular College, stating that it is your understanding that intinction of the host is specifically prohibited by lay persons, and asking why this is being permitted at [name the particular chapel and service].

You should receive an answer. If you do not, then report this practice to the local Bishop, who can bring pressure on them to stop this.

Being a Candidate, the OP is in a rather difficult position to be reporting abuses. However, there is no harm in asking about something that one comes across in their reading.

 

[tsering]

As for the host to be used for the intinction, it should be made of valid matter, also consecrated; it is altogether forbidden to use non-consecrated bread or other matter.

What is valid matter for a host? Is a big whole wheat looking cracker consistency wafer that is quickly consecrated and then broken to pieces with crumbs falling all over the altar okay?

Is it okay when I go up, and do not take the host (I’m a candidate), but instead I make a cross with my two arms for a blessing, and the priest making the blessing on my forehead still has the host in the hand he’s making the blessing with while tiny crumbs are falling on my forehead?

Peace

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

Thanks for posting this question. Many years ago I saw this being done and suspected that it was improper. Now I know. Peace, g.

 

[zab]

What is valid matter for a host? Is a big whole wheat looking cracker consistency wafer that is quickly consecrated and then broken to pieces with crumbs falling all over the altar okay?

Is it okay when I go up, and do not take the host (I’m a candidate), but instead I make a cross with my two arms for a blessing, and the priest making the blessing on my forehead still has the host in the hand he’s making the blessing with while tiny crumbs are falling on my forehead?

Peace

The Host must not be too thin nor too small. The reason being is that it should not fall apart easily after being dipped nor should it be so small that fingers get dipped in the Precious Blood.

 

[malphono]

What is valid matter for a host? Is a big whole wheat looking cracker consistency wafer that is quickly consecrated and then broken to pieces with crumbs falling all over the altar okay?

Is it okay when I go up, and do not take the host (I’m a candidate), but instead I make a cross with my two arms for a blessing, and the priest making the blessing on my forehead still has the host in the hand he’s making the blessing with while tiny crumbs are falling on my forehead?

None of this is “okay” no matter how one looks at it. Self-intinction, women preachers, Eucharistic crumbs, etc, are all serious abuses. I’d suggest finding another church.

 

[tsering]

The Host must not be too thin nor too small. The reason being is that it should not fall apart easily after being dipped nor should it be so small that fingers get dipped in the Precious Blood.

No one was dipping except the laity. The priest consecrated the host (a large 10 inches in diameter whole wheat wafer) and then broke it into pieces while crumbs flew all over the altar. The pieces are what he handed out to the laity. Some people were then taking these pieces and dipping them in the wine.

My next question is, was the host made of valid matter? And moreover is it okay for the priest to break it into small pieces and crumbs?

 

[paperwight66]

No one was dipping except the laity. The priest consecrated the host (a large 10 inches in diameter whole wheat wafer) and then broke it into pieces while crumbs flew all over the altar. The pieces are what he handed out to the laity. Some people were then taking these pieces and dipping them in the wine.

My next question is, was the host made of valid matter? And moreover is it okay for the priest to break it into small pieces and crumbs?

Please - not ‘wine’.

 

[tsering]

None of this is “okay” no matter how one looks at it. Self-intinction, women preachers, Eucharistic crumbs, etc, are all serious abuses. I’d suggest finding another church.

Unfortunately, this has been the only one I can attend every other Sunday in the area to fulfill my obligation. What frustrates me is that I am finding another Church - the Catholic Church. It’s unfortunate that I have to swim through serious abuses to actually find it. I think the unbelief and seeming lack of obedience in a prominent - if the not the sole - Catholic college of our diocese which trains much if not most of it’s ministers - has a chapel mass run by it’s Jesuit priests who allow serious abuses. I feel like I got sandpaper abrasions on my heart, and my wife is having a hard time deciding to join the RCC not because of the teaching, but because of the abuses and attitudes of those who don’t really give a rip - which shows their unbelief - especially towards the sacraments. :banghead:

Peace

 

[zab]

No one was dipping except the laity. The priest consecrated the host (a large 10 inches in diameter whole wheat wafer) and then broke it into pieces while crumbs flew all over the altar. The pieces are what he handed out to the laity. Some people were then taking these pieces and dipping them in the wine.

My next question is, was the host made of valid matter? And moreover is it okay for the priest to break it into small pieces and crumbs?

There is no question that it was wrong for the laity to intinct. But from what you describe of the Host- cracker-like with crumbs flying all over the altar- I would say that the bread used is not appropriate. I will say, however, that there are some very large hosts that have perferated lines where it can be broken easily with little crumbs. Our former pastor used a very large thin white host on special occassions, like Christmas and Easter. Our present pastor doesn’t like the huge host. He always uses the one that is about two inch diameter. There may be a more substantial huge host that has the perferated lines for breaking as well.

 

[tsering]

There is no question that it was wrong for the laity to intinct. But from what you describe of the Host- cracker-like with crumbs flying all over the altar- I would say that the bread used is not appropriate. I will say, however, that there are some very large hosts that have perferated lines where it can be broken easily with little crumbs. Our former pastor used a very large thin white host on special occassions, like Christmas and Easter. Our present pastor doesn’t like the huge host. He always uses the one that is about two inch diameter. There may be a more substantial huge host that has the perferated lines for breaking as well.

It definitely wasn’t perforated.

 

[centurionguard]

Here is the quote from [Redemptionis Sacramentum](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...0423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter IV) that pertains to your question:

[103.] The norms of the Roman Missal admit the principle that in cases where Communion is administered under both kinds, “the Blood of the Lord may be received either by drinking from the chalice directly, or by intinction, or by means of a tube or a spoon”.[191] As regards the administering of Communion to lay members of Christ’s faithful, the Bishops may exclude Communion with the tube or the spoon where this is not the local custom, though the option of administering Communion by intinction always remains. If this modality is employed, however, hosts should be used which are neither too thin nor too small, and the communicant should receive the Sacrament from the Priest only on the tongue.[192]
[104.] The communicant must not be permitted to instinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the instinct host in the hand. As for the host to be used for the intinction, it should be made of valid matter, also consecrated; it is altogether forbidden to use non-consecrated bread or other matter.

I’m glad you brought this reminder up in its entirety. My only question to all this is what purpose does Intinction serve in this manner? If the Body in Blood of Christ can’t be given out under both separate species under the form of consecrated Host and Wine, then it must be that the parish cannot afford the full amount of wine needed to consecrate under both species for all the congregation.

Peace
Chris

 

[tsering]

Please - not ‘wine’.

Being an ignorant candidate, I don’t know what else to call it, except the Blood.

Peace.

 

[Corki]

tsering,

I am really sorry that you are experiencing this. One of the sad truths about the liturgy is that some priests are very lax about following the instructions for saying Mass. This includes the things you are seeing. For some reason, this type of absue is particularly common on some college campuses, even at Catholic colleges.

The Jesuits have a strong history of defending the Church. They also have a long history of education. Some of the Jesuit colleges have “gone off the reservation” when it comes to matters of faith. I visited one such college with my high school son this summer.

The documents posted here are good resources. Once you are fully received in the Church, you can use them to help you find a parish with a strong and faithful liturgy. In the meantime, is there maybe a Saturday night or even Sunday night Mass that you might substitute for the college chapel one? It might not be as convenient but might give you more peace.

Welcome home!

 

[Corki]

I’m glad you brought this reminder up in its entirety. My only question to all this is what purpose does Intinction serve in this manner? If the Body in Blood of Christ can’t be given out under both separate species under the form of consecrated Host and Wine, then it must be that the parish cannot afford the amount of wine needed to consecrate under both species for all the congregation.

Peace
Chris

There are many reasons why a parish might chose intinction and it doesn’t mean the reasons are financial.

I used to attend daily Mass at a parish where intinction was the normal way of distributing Communion. The priest used an intinction set and no EMHCs.

Using intinction requires a smaller amount of wine be consecrated. This may be desirable when the number of communicants varies greatly or is unpredictable.

Also, not every country has the indult for Communion in the hand. Intinction is a very effficient manner of disributing Communion under both species when everyone is already receiving on the tongue anyway.

And some priests and others just like the idea of consuming both species at the same time rather than sequencially.

 

[jilly4ski]

This wouldn’t be LeMoyne college in Syracuse is it? If it is, the Cathedral downtown Syracuse has both a Saturday and a Sunday evening Mass at 5:10pm, and the Basilica on Erie Blvd. has a Latin (EF) on Sunday evenings at 4pm.