Direct and Peaceful questions for Middle east Muslims

[lhagan]

First off I’d like to apologize for my behavior and others on this site.

Now a few questions:

1.Do you agree with/support your judicial system?
2.How many others share your views?
3.Who are the others that share your views:
Sunnis- how many?,what country do they live in?
Sufi’s- how many?,what country do they live in?
Shiites(please tell each Shiite group)- how many?, what country do they live in?
Take a guess on question 3 we just need an idea, we don’t exact numbers.
4.If you do not support/agree with your judicial system what steps are being taken to change it?

Now, I’d like to share my idea of who God is to us. Please share with us your ideas about who God is.

I believe we are all close to God at birth and are born pure.
I believe if we do not keep the communication lines open with God we lose contact with God the longer we are on this earth.
I believe God yearns and weeps for our return when we lose contact with God.
I believe God is Just for our own good and does not like to punish us.
I believe God feels we are apart of God and we are not slaves to God’s laws because God’s laws are not truly laws, they are merely guidelines for characteristics we need in order to reunite with God.

Please tell me which you agree with and which you don’t and share some of your own ideas.

Christians,Jews,and lost siblings please do not post until at least one middle east Muslim has answered all these questions. Please do not ruin the peace and love on this forum.

May all the heresy’s/sects return and the Jews,Catholics,and Muslims reunite and become one with God.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I believe we are all close to God at birth and are born pure.

Are you aware that what you are believing is a direct contradiction of the classical Western teaching on original sin?

 

[lhagan]

I believe we are all close to God at birth and are born pure.

Are you aware that what you are believing is a direct contradiction of the classical Western teaching on original sin?

Are you aware these two statements go together?–
I believe we are all close to God at birth and are born pure.
I believe if we do not keep the communication lines open with God we lose contact with God the longer we are on this earth.

We are born in sin but we aren’t sinful at birth. What has a baby done to be sinful? That’s like saying your great great grand father owned a slave so you are guilty of slavery. If a baby dies it was never guilty of any sins. If that baby grows up in the sinful environment which is the entire earth odds of that person sinning is 99%.

 

[meedo]

First off I’d like to apologize for my behavior and others on this site.
I didnt see u do anything wrong. You dont need to appologise for others .
Now a few questions:

1.Do you agree with/support your judicial system?

You mean the law of Islam ? Yes i do
2.How many others share your views?
Well , the more believing a muslim is the more he believes that the laws of islam are just and useful.
3.Who are the others that share your views:
Sunnis- how many?,what country do they live in?
Sufi’s- how many?,what country do they live in?
Shiites(please tell each Shiite group)- how many?, what country do they live in?
Take a guess on question 3 we just need an idea, we don’t exact numbers.

Thtas a very very difficult question.
4.If you do not support/agree with your judicial system what steps are being taken to change it?

I just wanna say somthing very important here. There is a huge misunderstanding of what constitutes islamic law on the part of Christians and ´the weastern world . I guess the vast majority of western people look at islamic law for Corporal Punioshments . ASctually islamic law governs business transactions , interest rates, rules of deposits and honesty , Inheritance, anti corruption by rulers ,rulers accountability, irrigation administration , prayer, wash and cleanliness, waterpreservation , animal rights , charity and pensions, etc etc etc . So it is hard to answer thsi question as well.

Now, I’d like to share my idea of who God is to us. Please share with us your ideas about who God is.

I believe we are all close to God at birth and are born pure.agreed
I believe if we do not keep the communication lines open with God we lose contact with God the longer we are on this earth.agreed
I believe God yearns and weeps for our return when we lose contact with God.well, he yearns yes but i dont think he weeps
I believe God is Just for our own good and does not like to punish us.God doesnt like tp punish us, but he does sometimes if it is for our own good to get back on track

I believe God feels we are apart of God and we are not slaves to God’s laws because God’s laws are not truly laws, they are merely guidelines for characteristics we need in order to reunite with God.well, i guess also there is a misunderstanding of what muslims mean by slave , the word slave of god in arabic really isnt a demeaning word . because god as our master is not like an earthly master . He is more like a firm but loving father who very much want us to be on teh right path. So gods orders we believe are mandatory because of our own good as well as they are important because it is the orders from the person to which we owe all beautiful things in life and afterlife to

Please tell me which you agree with and which you don’t and share some of your own ideas.

Christians,Jews,and lost siblings please do not post until at least one middle east Muslim has answered all these questions. Please do not ruin the peace and love on this forum.

May all the heresy’s/sects return and the Jews,Catholics,and Muslims reunite and become one with God.

It is wonderful to have you on this forum. Thank you for the spirit of charity and respect you demonsrate . peace be to you and your loved ones.

Meedo

Arab Egyptian muslim

 

[meedo]

Are you aware these two statements go together?–
I believe we are all close to God at birth and are born pure.
I believe if we do not keep the communication lines open with God we lose contact with God the longer we are on this earth.

We are born in sin but we aren’t sinful at birth. What has a baby done to be sinful? That’s like saying your great great grand father owned a slave so you are guilty of slavery. If a baby dies it was never guilty of any sins. If that baby grows up in the sinful environment which is the entire earth odds of that person sinning is 99%.

Agreed . Islam believes that all people will sin somehow . But we are not born in sin . Its the nature of life to sin hiowever we dont inherit sin

 

[paarsurrey]

May all the heresy’s/sects return and the Jews,Catholics,and Muslims reunite and become one with God.

Hi

I appreciate and agree with your above charitable and peaceful approach. I pray that that day should dawn in as earliest as possible.

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim, I don’t live in the Middle East but I live in a Muslim country, would you like me to answer one or more of your questions.

Thanks

 

[lhagan]

meedo

On the news in the middle east there are girls being lashed after being gang raped.

Don’t you think the rape is enough of a punish and to keep her from doing it again? Do you believe the lashing was necessary?

In the west that is looked on as punishing the victim. Punishing the victim is not just.

 

[paarsurrey]

On the news in the middle east there are girls being lashed after being gang raped.

Don’t you think the rape is enough of a punish and to keep her from doing it again? Do you believe the lashing was necessary?

In the west that is looked on as punishing the victim. Punishing the victim is not just.

Hi

I agree that it is punishing the victim while the culprits remain scot free.

I don’t think it is in consonance with the teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

Those who had done this crime haven’t rightly understood Quran/Islam/Muhammad, I think . They must correct themselves.

Thanks

 

[lhagan]

paarsurrey

Of course, you can answer them all. I just wanted to get somebody as close to that injustice as possible to see if somebody is doing anything about it.

 

[meedo]

meedo

On the news in the middle east there are girls being lashed after being gang raped.

Don’t you think the rape is enough of a punish and to keep her from doing it again? Do you believe the lashing was necessary?

In the west that is looked on as punishing the victim. Punishing the victim is not just.

I think that the rapists should be executed and the girl shouldnt have any punishment at all. this is how ‘’ proper ‘’ Islamic law states. However in Saudi we have some retarted shauvenists who mix their culture with Islam and forget whatever the teaching of islam is .

Yes you are justified to look at it like punishing the victim. i look at it that way too. . i dont agree with it and nor does Islam. the saudis cant bring any proof from Islamic law on their action.

 

[lhagan]

meedo and paarsurrey

Has all of Saudi Arabia misrepresented Islamic Law?

To my understanding Saudi Arabia has 13 provinces and two (Makkah and Al Madinah) holds your two Holiest cities(Mecca and Medina).

Does Makkah and Al Madinah misrepresent Islam Law?

If there were Injustices in Rome (where the Roman Catholics Holiest Church lies) Catholics would be so pissed they would start World War 3.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

This is no Criteria for judging what Islam/Quran/Muhammad say, Saudis or for that matter anyone else or everyone else would be judged by Islam/Quran/Muhammad . There are clear verses for that. They are wrong in interpreting Quran, they must do it correctly.

Quran

[4:59] Verily, Allah commands you to give over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely, excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you. Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.

Unquote

Thanks

 

[lhagan]

Hi

This is no Criteria for judging what Islam/Quran/Muhammad say, Saudis or for that matter anyone else or everyone else would be judged by Islam/Quran/Muhammad . There are clear verses for that. They are wrong in interpreting Quran, they must do it correctly.

Quran

[4:59] Verily, Allah commands you to give over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely, excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you. Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.

Unquote

Thanks

I did not say it was criteria for judging the Quran,Muhammad, or Islam.

I’m trying to narrow it down. Saudi Arabia is a huge nation. It is so big that people think that it is a good comparison for Islam. Which obviously it is not. but, until these injustices are narrowed down to a specific location and specific persons people are going to continue to believe Islam is not a religion of peace. I know it is unfair but, that is how a lot of people think.

These two questions need to be answered to eliminate Saudi Arabia as a comparison for Islam:
Are these injustices showing up in all 13 provinces?
Are these Judges being investigated to gain the proof needed for disbarment? Obviously, Judges sentencing people unjustly need to be removed from their profession. People in the west think Saudi Arabia does not question their government because the information is unknown. Due to distance and language barriers.

 

[ralphinal]

Good thread. I am looking forward to learning.

 

[paarsurrey]

I did not say it was criteria for judging the Quran,Muhammad, or Islam.

I’m trying to narrow it down. Saudi Arabia is a huge nation. It is so big that people think that it is a good comparison for Islam. Which obviously it is not. but, until these injustices are narrowed down to a specific location and specific persons people are going to continue to believe Islam is not a religion of peace. I know it is unfair but, that is how a lot of people think.

These two questions need to be answered to eliminate Saudi Arabia as a comparison for Islam:
Are these injustices showing up in all 13 provinces?
Are these Judges being investigated to gain the proof needed for disbarment? Obviously, Judges sentencing people unjustly need to be removed from their profession. People in the west think Saudi Arabia does not question their government because the information is unknown. Due to distance and language barriers.

Hi

I would say that it is wrong to judge a religion by any specific territory/region/country. The religions need no such thing, they are in every part of the world. Religions are beyond any boundries. If one wants to know about Islam or Christianity, one should read its basic roots, the revealed books, make a comparitive study, discuss the issues, form an opinion and get to know the truth.

Thanks

 

[thedavidwilson]

It is wonderful to have you on this forum. Thank you for the spirit of charity and respect you demonsrate . peace be to you and your loved ones.

Meedo

Arab Egyptian muslim

Hi meedo. You say there are misconceptions of islamic law. Would you (or any othee muslim here) say the book Reliance of the Traveler is a good representation of islamic/sharia law?

 

[thedavidwilson]

From paarsurrey;:

"This is no Criteria for judging what Islam/Quran/Muhammad say"
"They are wrong in interpreting Quran, they must do it correctly."
This seems to be a contradiction in logic. What is the proper way to interpret islam and islamic law/theology? Is this written down somewhere. Is it just the interpretation that most muslims have? Is so this is another logical fallacy called ad populum.

 

[swariffin]

From paarsurrey;:

"This is no Criteria for judging what Islam/Quran/Muhammad say"
"They are wrong in interpreting Quran, they must do it correctly."
This seems to be a contradiction in logic. What is the proper way to interpret islam and islamic law/theology? Is this written down somewhere. Is it just the interpretation that most muslims have? Is so this is another logical fallacy called ad populum.

Dear DavidWilson,

Paarsurrey is an Ahmadi. Although his point of view is “unusual” (forgive my word), he is very charitable. In Indonesia, the Ahmadian are considered as heresy by our muslims. After I know more about Ahmadiah from Paar, I can understand why. The Ahmadian view about Islam, is somehow different than the “mainstream” Islam as far as I know. So, in this case, you cannot judge a contradiction in logic of Islam by taking Paar’s idea.

 

[paarsurrey]

From paarsurrey;:

"This is no Criteria for judging what Islam/Quran/Muhammad say"
"They are wrong in interpreting Quran, they must do it correctly."
What is the proper way to interpret islam and islamic law/theology? Is this written down somewhere.

Hi

I repeat one of my post in this thread:

I would say that it is wrong to judge a religion by any specific territory/region/country. The religions need no such thing, they are in every part of the world. Religions are beyond any boundries. If one wants to know about Islam or Christianity, one should read its basic roots, the revealed books, make a comparitive study, discuss the issues, form an opinion and get to know the truth.

Quran provides the full guidance.

Thanks

 

[thedavidwilson]

Hi

I repeat one of my post in this thread:

I would say that it is wrong to judge a religion by any specific territory/region/country. The religions need no such thing, they are in every part of the world. Religions are beyond any boundries. If one wants to know about Islam or Christianity, one should read its basic roots, the revealed books, make a comparitive study, discuss the issues, form an opinion and get to know the truth.

Quran provides the full guidance.

Thanks

When Christians make a “comparitive” study we are told that the bible is corrupt and we cannot possible understand the quran or what it means because we are not muslim or not born muslim.

As usual,in islam the odds are stacked against us non-believers.