Director of Faith Formation?

[pdxgirl]

But don’t quit! Be relieved of your duties and then re-double your fight.

They can’t really kick us out, can they? They can only ask us to leave?

i thought about making copies of her emails and leaving them in the pews. The parish would never stand for if they knew what was going on. i’m sure of it.

 

[EvelynEVF]

i thought about making copies of her emails and leaving them in the pews. The parish would never stand for if they knew what was going on. i’m sure of it.

You’;re going to have to restrain yourself You did remind me, though, that sometimes when I have to have difficult conversations, I imagine that just out of sight is someone who gives me courage. Sometimes Jesus, but just as often a friend. What if during your next practice, when she shows up, you imagine that the pews are all filled with members of the congregation? It might help with charity and confidence.

Seriously, please stick to your guns, for the sake of all those in the pews who will be shortchanges if you don’t, and they won’t know why.

 

[panoikei]

No, this director is not a priest. She is, in fact, a woman.

There’s your problem.

 

[quiet52]

They can’t really kick us out, can they? They can only ask us to leave?

i thought about making copies of her emails and leaving them in the pews. The parish would never stand for if they knew what was going on. i’m sure of it.

Please don’t draw the parish into these internal matters. Those of us who support parish ministries are supporting each and every parishioner in their journeys of faith. We’re not in it to bring division, confusion, or disillusionment. Keep praying for wisdom, charity and courage for yourself, your fellow choir members and your pastor. Bring your “armor” (the Vatican documents) but don’t say anything without praying first. Keep imagining Jesus standing next to you – you’re doing all this to please him, after all.

 

[panoikei]

Okay…okay. Sorry I couldn’t help it. I’m sure there are wonderful women that lead faithfully. I just come from a faith that did not allow women to teach to even teenage boys much less grown men. The men are expected to step up to the plate. I don’t think this is a slam against the women but rather a criticism against the men who don’t step up to the plate. Shame on us. If the pay was actually more just in that role then men could actually support their families on it. Why we can’t do that just baffles me. Look how the Protestants make it happen. They even pay their lead preacher or God forgive me for using these words but “pastor”. Inside joke. My brother-in-law made about $60K and was provided a house to keep as a pulpit or lead preacher. He’s an elder now. But his older brother, another of my BIL, made much less and depended somewhat on he wife’s part-time job. They all sent their children to ACU. But 2 of our nephews are supposedly preachers. One is unemployed and the other is actually preaching in Oklahoma. it’s no way to get rich, unless you’re a Joel Olsten with a major production, heaven forbid.

Our former DRE told us a story where he was working night shift at a postal service establishment to make extra money. He does okay now because of getting promoted but somehow he managed to send his kids to Catholic school. The new DREthough will be sending his kids to public school when the time comes I beleive.

DREs are not the Pastor of your parish and have no right to determine any of the Liturgy. They do as Father says. This is a pastoral decision. Father has committees to help give direction. But ultimately Father makes the decision. Period.

 

[pdxgirl]

Okay, so the priest came to talk to us at rehearsal. The basic jist of what he said was that we’re expected to attend some sort of music liturgy seminar given by someone in the diocese.

He is also hiring a “mediator” from within the diocese to resolve the conflict.

He believes we’ve all behaved in an unchristian fashion, he is saddened, and essentially he made it clear that he believes we are all wrong and this person is right.

Also, i think she has told him that there is “negativity” within the choir… and thus why he should get a mediator. What’s funny is that there never was any dissension between any members of the choir itself, and this whole situation has actually just made us all closer. When the mediator gets here, they’ll be surprised to find us all united.

The bottom line is: there is still a little hope because an (supposedly) objective person will be coming to hear everyone out and try to reach a resolution.
However, the priest is backing the Director of Faith Formation in her liturgical dictation of the mass and apparently in her calling out members of the choir and accusing them of things that didn’t happen.

We are all terribly disheartened.

i never meant for this thread to be a place of drama or to expound much more on what’s happened- i truly thought that maybe i’d been mistaken when i thought it wasn’t her place to dictate to us. However, i’ve been consoled by everyone’s supportive and kind words here, so i just wanted to say “Thank you.”

 

[benedictgal]

This is not encouraging, at least from the part of the pastor. I would ask him, with all due respect, what the authoritative documents of the Holy See the Director of Faith Formation is citing. I would also show him, with as little emotion as possible, the citations from these documents that support what your choir is trying to do.

Furthermore, if this woman were to bring up the issue of rights, please note what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say:

8.] It is therefore to be noted with great sadness that “ecumenical initiatives which are well-intentioned, nevertheless indulge at times in Eucharistic practices contrary to the discipline by which the Church expresses her faith”. Yet the Eucharist “is too great a gift to tolerate ambiguity or depreciation”. It is therefore necessary that some things be corrected or more clearly delineated so that in this respect as well “the Eucharist will continue to shine forth in all its radiant mystery”.19

[9.] Finally, abuses are often based on ignorance, in that they involve a rejection of those elements whose deeper meaning is not understood and whose antiquity is not recognized. For “the liturgical prayers, orations and songs are pervaded by the inspiration and impulse” of the Sacred Scriptures themselves, “and it is from these that the actions and signs receive their meaning”.20 As for the visible signs “which the Sacred Liturgy uses in order to signify the invisible divine realities, they have been chosen by Christ or by the Church”.21 Finally, the structures and forms of the sacred celebrations according to each of the Rites of both East and West are in harmony with the practice of the universal Church also as regards practices received universally from apostolic and unbroken tradition,22 which it is the Church’s task to transmit faithfully and carefully to future generations. All these things are wisely safeguarded and protected by the liturgical norms.

…11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.27 On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free rein to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,28 and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today. Nor do such actions serve authentic pastoral care or proper liturgical renewal; instead, they deprive Christ’s faithful of their patrimony and their heritage. For arbitrary actions are not conducive to true renewal,29 but are detrimental to the right of Christ’s faithful to a liturgical celebration that is an expression of the Church’s life in accordance with her tradition and discipline. In the end, they introduce elements of distortion and disharmony into the very celebration of the Eucharist, which is oriented in its own lofty way and by its very nature to signifying and wondrously bringing about the communion of divine life and the unity of the People of God.30 The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.31

[12.] On the contrary, it is the right of all of Christ’s faithful that the Liturgy, and in particular the celebration of Holy Mass, should truly be as the Church wishes, according to her stipulations as prescribed in the liturgical books and in the other laws and norms. Likewise, the Catholic people have the right that the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass should be celebrated for them in an integral manner, according to the entire doctrine of the Church’s Magisterium. Finally, it is the Catholic community’s right that the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist should be carried out for it in such a manner that it truly stands out as a sacrament of unity, to the exclusion of all blemishes and actions that might engender divisions and factions in the Church.32

The faithful in your parish (and this includes both you and the choir) have the right to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass celebrated in the manner the Church requires. This includes Sacred Music,. From Musicam Sacram to Sacramentum Caritatis, the Church has stated unequivocably that Latin should be used. In fact, what many forget is that the vernacular is the option while Latin has typically been the norm. No Vatican II document or post-Vatican II document has ever stated that Latin should be abolished. On the contrary, Pope Benedict XVI has called for a restoration of Latin.

Unfortunately, acitons such as these necessitate having to engage in document warfare, but, always done in the spirit of charitable, fraternal correction.

 

[pdxgirl]

Unfortunately, acitons such as these necessitate having to engage in document warfare, but, always done in the spirit of charitable, fraternal correction.

I have printed up everything provided to me in this discussion, with links for reference. I don’t know when this mediation will occur, but I will study hard and make sure I am ready. And I will pass these documents on to my fellow choir members.

 

[BSHoop96]

We no longer sing chant or polyphony. And actually, we did before we got a new pastor (about 6 mos ago) and he will not actively participate in what is happening. She’s been around for about 4 years so she’s seen how we can perform with prayerful excellence, but she has always felt we were too “performance” oriented (which seemed to be a singular opinion) and since she has more power now has decided to put us in our place.

i would love to not take this… as would so many of my fellow choir members, but what are we to do?

Call a meeting with everyone in the choir and meet with the priest. He can’t keep from getting involved forever. Go armed with your documentation.

When I posted the above I had not seen your post about the priest talking to you.

Good luck and God bless!!

 

[Phemie]

I have printed up everything provided to me in this discussion, with links for reference. I don’t know when this mediation will occur, but I will study hard and make sure I am ready. And I will pass these documents on to my fellow choir members.

I looked and saw no reference to the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, which is the document from Vatican II that promotes all the things that people think were abolished by Vatican II. It’s a short document but packed with things you can use.

Read the chapter about Sacred Music.

 

[pdxgirl]

I looked and saw no reference to the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, which is the document from Vatican II that promotes all the things that people think were abolished by Vatican II. It’s a short document but packed with things you can use.

Read the chapter about Sacred Music.

Thank you so, so much!

 

[panoikei]

Not knowing the details of who said what to who makes this impossible to know exactly whats happening, but it seems to me that the DRE, jumping positions, and the priest are bucking the long standing traditions of the Catholic Church. Strange to hear such things. Latin is the norm for the Church.

 

[benedictgal]

To the OP, was there ever a meeting and, if so, what happened?