Here it says that we many become a Son of God. But I don’t see how a man could become God. For one thing, there is only one God. On earth we have billions of people. If each one of these persons were to become God, then that would mean that we would be teaching against the unity of God.What SMM is talking about is theosis, also called deification. The OrthodoxWiki has a good article on theosis. Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say on this:
460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”
2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining “the promised inheritance of eternal life.” The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness. “Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts.”
of St. Vincent of Lerins. This was devoted specifically to the question of what are the sources of Authority in the Church? and how does the Church deal with doctrinal issues? As you probably know, St. Vincent specifically lists Scripture, the Fathers, Tradition, and individual bishops. Nowhere does he specifically give special place to the Bishop of Rome, apart and above the other bishops, in deciding doctrinal issues. He does indicate a special place for the Bishop of Rome in safeguarding (not interpreting) Tradition, but never says anything about the Pope’s teaching being decisive or definitive. In my view, that has to carry weight. JoeI agree with you to a point, but there is a point at which an “argument from silence” is cogent, and that point is where, given the subject matter of the statement, you would reaosnably expect it include something about, say, Petrine primacy, and it doesn’t. The big example, in my eyes, is (are?) The Commonitorium
Is the general Orthodox opinion that most people suffer damnation?
Visit the link sid, it explains it fairly well.Here it says that we many become a Son of God. But I don’t see how a man could become God. For one thing, there is only one God. On earth we have billions of people. If each one of these persons were to become God, then that would mean that we would be teaching against the unity of God.
**Theosis (“deification,” “divinization”) is the process of a worshiper becoming free of hamartía (“missing the mark”), being united with God, beginning in this life and later consummated in bodily resurrection. For Orthodox Christians, Théōsis (see 2 Pet. 1:4) is salvation. Théōsis assumes that humans from the beginning are made to share in the Life or Nature of the all-Holy Trinity. Therefore, an infant or an adult worshiper is saved from the state of unholiness (hamartía — which is not to be confused with hamártēma “sin”) for participation in the Life (zōé, not simply bíos) of the Trinity — which is everlasting.
This is not to be confused with the heretical (apothéōsis) - “Deification in God’s Essence”, which is imparticipable.
Thanks for the link and the clarification TheosisM.The statement by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, “The Son of God became man, that we might become god”, [the second g is always lowercase since man can never become a God] indicates the concept beautifully. II Peter 1:4 says that we have become " . . . partakers of divine nature." Athanasius amplifies the meaning of this verse when he says theosis is “becoming by grace what God is by nature” (De Incarnatione, I). What would otherwise seem absurd, that fallen, sinful man may become holy as God is holy, has been made possible through Jesus Christ, who is God incarnate. Naturally, the crucial Christian assertion, that God is One, sets an absolute limit on the meaning of theosis - it is not possible for any created being to become, ontologically, God or even another god. **
The Catechism is quite explicit in paragraph 460 by saying “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God” (again, quoting Athanasius), and "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."" The issue here is what that all means, and none of it means that we are “teaching against the unity of God”, nor does it take away from our belief in one God. Please go to the OrthodoxWiki article on Theosis that I linked to. This is a standard belief of Catholicism and Orthodoxy, which is particularly more emphasized and referenced in the East (both Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy).Here it says that we many become a Son of God. But I don’t see how a man could become God. For one thing, there is only one God. On earth we have billions of people. If each one of these persons were to become God, then that would mean that we would be teaching against the unity of God.
Hey Monica,I agree with you. St. Vincent of Lerins teachings should not be ignored! He is a Western Saint that I’ve never heard the Roman Catholic Church reference or in any way mention during my years as a Catholic. I think they’d prefer to brush him under the rug since his teachings did not include anything which supports Rome’s current claims to Supremacy & the Infallibility of the Pope of Rome.
No problem!Visit the link sid, it explains it fairly well.
Thanks for the link and the clarification TheosisM.
I wasn’t familiar with this Orthodox teaching that man can become god. Generally, I thought that God was God and that He is completely above all of His Creation. I thought that Man was created by God and will never have the power or knowledge that God has.
Hey Monica,
Also, the Pope, himself, is not infallible, which I’m sure you’re aware of. I wanted to clarify that statement for others who visit these forums.
Yes, in matters of Faith and Morals. How long ago was the last infallible statement issued? 1950, I believe it was…Yes, I am aware that the Pope is Not Infallible and I am also aware that the Catholic Church beginning in the 19th Century claims that the Pope, himself, is Infallible in matters of Faith and Morals. There was a Huge amount of contraversy on this issue within the Catholic Church during the time leading up to the “definition” of Papal Infalibility because there was no historical evidence to back up the new claim.
Let me add to the information of TheosisM, the Wikipedia link which looks at the concept of theosis from various perspective - EOC, CC, and others.I wasn’t familiar with this Orthodox teaching that man can become god. Generally, I thought that God was God and that He is completely above all of His Creation. I thought that Man was created by God and will never have the power or knowledge that God has.
“To restore man, who has been laid low by sin, to the heights of divine glory, the Word of the eternal Father, though containing all things within His immensity, willed to become small. This He did, not by putting aside His greatness, but by taking to Himself our littleness. . . . The humanity of Christ is the way by which we come to the divinity.” (Thomas Aquinas, Compendium of Theology, §1-2)
The key point to keep in sight is that we are participants, through grace, in divinity. But ontologically we are creatures, unlike the uncreated God, and our theosis does not alter that salient distinction.“Now the gift of grace surpasses every capability of created nature, since it is nothing short of a partaking of the Divine Nature, which exceeds every other nature. And thus it is impossible that any creature should cause grace. For it is as necessary that God alone should deify, bestowing a partaking of the Divine Nature by a participated likeness, as it is impossible that anything save fire should enkindle.” (Summa Theologiae I-II.112.1 co.)
What SMM is talking about is theosis, also called deification. The OrthodoxWiki has a good article on theosis.
Yes, in matters of Faith and Morals. How long ago was the last infallible statement issued? 1950, I believe it was…
I don’t disagree with becoming participants in the divine nature. I didn’t know about the Orthodox teaching that man becomes God. With more than a billion people on earth, I don’t see how you can have millions of Gods, and still teach the unity of one God.The key point to keep in sight is that we are participants, through grace, in divinity. But ontologically we are creatures, unlike the uncreated God, and our theosis does not alter that salient distinction.
lol it isn’t “as Monica says”, it’s as St. Athanasius says, and it’s right there in the Catechism. No one is saying that “you can have millions of Gods”. Sigh, read the link please.I don’t disagree with becoming participants in the divine nature. I didn’t know about the Orthodox teaching that man becomes God. With more than a billion people on earth, I don’t see how you can have millions of Gods, and still teach the unity of one God.
I see a difference between a man becoming God as Monica says, and a man becoming a participant in the divine nature.
For those that are not familiar with infallibility, I feel it’s important to realize it’s not applicable to everything a Pope says.The point is Not how frequent or infrequently Papal Infallibility is used, but whether or not Infallibility can ever be found in one person, a Pope of Rome, as opposed to Infallibility being practiced in the whole Church through Ecumenical Councils aacepted by the laity as the Church has always maintained.
It would help if SMM understood the theological terminology. I attach a link to a long article. If anyone cares to know what they are talking about, in terms of “uncreated grace” Please if you can spare the time, read it.,however, if Grace is created then we can Never reach the goal God gave mankind at creation. Grace/Divine Energy is Uncreated.
Read the Wiki and Orthodowiki articles. Regardless of what has been written on this thread, it would be terribly unfair to the EOC to conflate theology with LDS or pagan ideas.I don’t disagree with becoming participants in the divine nature. I didn’t know about the Orthodox teaching that man becomes God. With more than a billion people on earth, I don’t see how you can have millions of Gods, and still teach the unity of one God.
I see a difference between a man becoming God as Monica says, and a man becoming a participant in the divine nature.
It says man becomes God or does it say man is a participant in the divine nature?lol it isn’t “as Monica says”, it’s as St. Athanasius says, and it’s right there in the Catechism. No one is saying that “you can have millions of Gods”. Sigh, read the link please.