Disagreement with a retreat leader. Advice please

[lizaanne]

You should have agreed with her:

“Yes they are good people”.

You can’t actually say this until you understand what her definition of “good people” is. It would be completely disingenuous to do that, and would sound pandering and false if you don’t even know the people or know anything about them.

Safer just to stick to the facts, and that’s what the OP did.

~Liza

 

[dshix]

I’m upset b/c on this thread he has been judged and spoken to uncharitably. I guess I should be happy he’s being attacked b/c that means he is speaking the truth and Satan hates that.

Well, maltmom, you will then be happy to note that the majority of posters on this thread have supported the OP (counting myself) and that inflammatory posts were only made by one or two people.

 

[maltmom]

Well, maltmom, you will then be happy to note that the majority of posters on this thread have supported the OP (counting myself) and that inflammatory posts were only made by one or two people.

Yes, I am…I’m feeling the love. Unfortunately I allowed the actions of a few to over shadow the good of the many. Sorry about that.

 

[JDaniel]

I believe the Catholic Church is the True Church. However, I do not believe in a human being with Omniscience, neither do I believe in a Church with Omniscience. The only way to be adamant in your beliefs is to know all the truth, of which the Church lacks. So any belief system is fair at best. Compare any two belief systems to the Absolute truth and you will find they both lack pretty much the same amount.

Sacred:

Allow me to say first of all, that no insult is herein intended. Let me ask you why you choose Catholicism, as your religion, if all of the other religions probably hold much more of The truth? Was it strictly because of Jesus’ conversation with Peter (Rock) in the garden?

God bless,
jd

 

[sophion]

You can’t actually say this until you understand what her definition of “good people” is. It would be completely disingenuous to do that, and would sound pandering and false if you don’t even know the people or know anything about them.

Safer just to stick to the facts, and that’s what the OP did.

~Liza

By YOUR definition are mormons good people or not?

 

[JDaniel]

I was at a retreat with some Catholic college students and during some downtime a friend asked what Mormons believe.

I responded that they deny the trinity, have an incorrect form of baptism, and have some very strange views on the afterlife. I then said, “In relation to other Protestant sects, they have some of the weirdest doctrines.”

That drew a disgusted look from the woman that ran the retreat and this statement, “I have Morman friends and they are some of the best people ever. They don’t do anything on Sundays and are dedicated to their family.”

I ended the confrontation by saying, “The Catholic Church doesn’t consider their beliefs Christian.”

in response I was told, “They are good people.”

How could I have better handled myself in this situation? I could have explained the difference between being a Christian and being a good person but I didn’t think it was appropriate. I didn’t want to make this woman feel disrespected in front of a group of young people but I wanted to make sure that the student asking the question got an honest answer other than, “We’re all friends.” because I feel like that leads to relativism and a lack of true discussion.

What should I have done better? Please give me some advice.

Kmuestwin:

You know, of all the differentiating words one could have used in that situation, the word, “weird,” is probably the least disparaging. Another person might have chosen a word that was really disparaging. (I have about ten or so, in my head right now.)

You know what else: I wonder how many “good people” are in hell right now because someone who could have provided the “way,” rested on political correctness instead of tough love? I know atheists that are “good people.” Not only do I debate with them, I also pray for them. All of this life is a learning cycle. We’ve got about 70 years to get it right.

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

By YOUR definition are mormons good people or not?

Sophion:

What about you, do you think they’re good people?

God bless,
jd

 

[dshix]

Kmuestwin:

You know, of all the differentiating words one could have used in that situation, the word, “weird,” is probably the least disparaging. Another person might have chosen a word that was really disparaging. (I have about ten or so, in my head right now.)

You know what else: I wonder how many “good people” are in hell right now because someone who could have provided the “way,” rested on political correctness instead of tough love? I know atheists that are “good people.” Not only do I debate with them, I also pray for them. All of this life is a learning cycle. We’ve got about 70 years to get it right.

God bless,
jd

Right on.

 

[sophion]

Sophion:

What about you, do you think they’re good people?

God bless,
jd

of course they are! majority are law abiding. they respect others. they dont systematically oppress others. i can visit their state and enjoy equal rights. their people doesnt have a history of atrocity.

 

[dshix]

You know, I think the purpose of this thread has passed. Looks like the OP has gotten all the advice he could use at this point, and we’re veering off topic now.

Agree? npatrol:npatrol:npatrol:npatrol:npatrol:npatrol:npatrol:npatrol:

 

[lizaanne]

By YOUR definition are mormons good people or not?

That is a ridiculous question.

I am not prepared to speak on an entire population of people I don’t even know. I’ve known personally exactly ONE Mormon (it’s spelled with a big M by the way), and I can absolutely say that, while he was a very pleasant and generally nice man, as a physician specializing in reproductive technology, and regularly disposed of embryos and expected men to masturbate, NO - he was not what I would define as a GOOD man.

So — what’s your point in asking me this question, since this thread is in no way about me in the first place?

~Liza

 

[DevientGenie]

Poison 7:2–If you were to ask pope pius XII Mar. 2, 1939 - Oct. 9, 1958, where he received his information regarding rules and regulations for catholics, or how was this information coming to him, he would have pulled out a King Kong sized syringe of poison and proceeds to spew “god told me” and you would have eaten up. If you still would eat it up, the poison is still affecting you. Please do not reproduce until you wake from the delusion. I would suggest learning biology, embryology, physics, fractal geometry, cosmology, (NOT pseudo scince astrology), and a few other intelligent sciences for fastest and best results

DUH 7:50–Which classroom is more beneficial and overall more nutritious for a young curious, easily inspired mind? The teacher in class "1 asks the head priest/pastor/clown at the school "I am teaching the seventh grade about temporal punishment due to sin. One of the students asked if anyone can go straight to heaven after dying since we all need to atone for the temporal punishment. What do I say? forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=727515. In class #2 the Science teacher asks Google “Government and university information regarding evolution” Class #1 not only had an inept teacher, she said “what do I say”, you should say the truth DUH. Isnt that what people who are lying ask? A sincere person would ask something like this, “Whats the answer”, “what does the bible say about it”, or “whats the churches stance”, "Thats a poker tell. Her logic and reason tell her the holy binky is a statistical improbability. Her inability to possess other skills to earn a living, is the only reason she is there

QUOTES 5:31–“Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock proclaiming victory.”–Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

WISHES 3:7–We just need to raise our conciousness. Just a simple small step, and all agree that questioning the origins of human life becasue of our current scientific knowledge is NOT somehow inherintley wrong, or rude, or offensive in any way just because those truths contradict words in a holy book. Once we all agree on that, we will begin to embrace the beautiful truths and explanations for the complexity of life and ultimitley have the conciousness to let go of the dull lazy answers that “god did it”, “its gods will”, “its gods way of testing us” “It says so in my holy binky”

Pointless 6:44–When we face a crisis, I have some ideas. I think we should murmur, or chant, or pray, and if that doesnt make things better, we’ll pull out all the stops, open some fortune cookies and read some palms and horoscopes, that should do the trick just in case the sky daddy is resting again

CRACKPOT 1:2–Charles james seaman on his facebook page: “When anger is your disability, anger management techniques are a waste of time. Breathing makes you angrier, as does advice, birds, clouds, and just about anything else you could imagine; AND, FOR NO REASON AT ALL. Just wake up wanting to crush heads and have to pray for a half hour for the peace and Joy of The Holy Spirit. God continuously fills me with joy, peace, and contentment. If God EVER stops, I’ll fly off into an uncontrollable rage. The point is, GOD CAN TRANSFORM ANOBODY”

“Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things – that takes religion.”
– Steven Weinberg

How is that possible?

Otherwise good people, for example, pull the “yes” lever on ballot measures aimed at denying certain folks the same rights they (otherwise good people) freely enjoy because their religion instructs them to do so in the name of god.

Hence, religion making otherwise good people do bad things

BigKids 12:53–Slow down and think about how illogical it is to say "well, everything is so complex that there has to be a designer, there is some type of creator who put the laws of physics in motion, and this intelligent physicist created perfect gravity and circumstances for life to exist, therefore jesus is my savior

 

[sophion]

That is a ridiculous question.

I am not prepared to speak on an entire population of people I don’t even know. I’ve known personally exactly ONE Mormon (it’s spelled with a big M by the way), and I can absolutely say that, while he was a very pleasant and generally nice man, as a physician specializing in reproductive technology, and regularly disposed of embryos and expected men to masturbate, NO - he was not what I would define as a GOOD man.

So — what’s your point in asking me this question, since this thread is in no way about me in the first place?

~Liza

ah you just dont want to say or acknowledge anything good about the mormon people.

yeah enough about you. just making a point. its now up to the thread starter. i hope this demonstration proves a little enlightening.

 

[dshix]

ah you just dont want to say or acknowledge anything good about the mormon people.

yeah enough about you. just making a point. its now up to the thread starter. i hope this demonstration proves a little enlightening.

I’m not sure WHAT point you thought you just made, but it sure wasn’t enlightening.

 

[sophion]

I’m not sure WHAT point you thought you just made, but it sure wasn’t enlightening.

1. That its always good to acknowledge the goodness of people.
2. Therefore its ok for the OP to agree with the retreat leader. That mormons are good people.
3. That doing so will not compromise the OP’s original argument.
4. The OP would be working towards a charitable reconcillation.

 

[dshix]

1. That its always good to acknowledge the goodness of people.
2. Therefore its ok for the OP to agree with the retreat leader. That mormons are good people.
3. That doing so will not compromise the OP’s original argument.
4. The OP would be working towards a charitable reconcillation.

1. 
   *]Yes it is, but you can’t acknowledge the good of people you don’t know.
   *]The retreat leader was talking about particular Mormons she knew. It would be stupid to say that someone you don’t know is a good person… if you don’t know them.
   *]True. Except it wouldn’t be relevant.
   *]You have your fourth point right, but I think the OP was trying to make a statement about a religion, not about the people in it.

 

[sophion]

Yes it is, but you can’t acknowledge the good of people you don’t know.

thats the kind of thinking that creates division and hatred in the world. people are people and we are fundamentally good. so unless that you know for a fact that mormons systematically oppress people, its GOOD TO ASSUME THAT THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE.

 

[dshix]

thats the kind of thinking that creates division and hatred in the world. people are people and we are fundamentally good. so unless that you know for a fact that mormons systematically oppress people, its GOOD TO ASSUME THAT THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE.

I disagree with that uncalled for premise. If you could back it up somehow maybe you could convince me…?

 

[sophion]

I disagree with that uncalled for premise. If you could back it up somehow maybe you could convince me…?

golden rule. if you want other religions to see the catholic people as good people, then see them as such as well.

…unless you know that they oppress minorities in the territories they rule.

 

[dshix]

golden rule. if you want other religions to see the catholic people as good people, then see them as such as well.

…unless you know that they oppress minorities in the countries they rule.

That’s another unfounded premise. The Church is the leading part of a religion, not a social popularity website.

When the OP is asked “who are Mormons?” the correct answer is to say what their religion is, NOT what the speaker thinks of the people themselves.

If I asked someone who Catholics are, what would be a better answer: a synopsis of all their history, stating the scandals in detail as well as the good parts, or what the religion is actually teaching?