Disagreement With Husband On Living Will

[psychologist101]

My DH’s father has been sick for a while now with chronic pancreatitis and sirrosis(from decades of drinking). DH discussed his father’s wishes about care, treatment ect. should he not be able to decide anymore. This kinda prompted a discussion between me and my husband about what our wishes would be if we got sick or were on lifesupport. He went on the net and found the “5-Wishes” living will, which seemed to be a good thing to fill out and have. So we went right ahead and sat at the table and wrote them up together. DH checked a box that stated “All artificial leans of life support including feeding tubes should be removed” after it is determined that he is uncurable or in a vegetative state. He also wrote a long paragraph listing diseases or things wrong with him where a tube should be removed or support taken away. He does not want to be kept alive, and if he is put on a resperator and/or feeding tube, he wants them taken out. He also listed me as the first person to carry out those wishes too. I told him that I can’t tell a doctor to take out a feeding tube, even if he wants it, because it is so morally wrong. We ended up having a very long discussion turned to argument about this. He has not been not a very strong Catholic, and he stuck to his idea of wanting a feeding tube removed. I stuck to my position too. His solution: remove me from the document entirely, and he put his younger brother, his sister-in-law, then mom. He said “I’m not going to lie around like a ***** carrot because of your beliefs”. I think he is very on edge because his dad is dying, and maybe that’s why he’s being so mean. Am I really stuck here? If he doesn’t change his mind, then I’ll have no say over it if something really does happen. Should I just let him have his way to have done what he wants, and let someone else follow his wishes? Or should I fight him on this? It doesn’t seem like I have any ground to, because this is a official document. He can be such a hardhead sometimes. I’ve been praying the Rosary every chance I get. Any other suggestions???

 

[Ghosty]

I would recommend that you continue to pray, and calmly try to persuade him in a less stressful time. Remember, however, that ultimately it is his choice what to do, and if he decides he’d rather have someone else execute his living will, that’s his prerogative. Better to have him go around you than to be stuck in the middle of a potential lawsuit on the matter, IMO.

This doesn’t mean you give up, just means that you should keep a proper perspective of the situation and work from there.

I will pray for both of you, and your husband’s father.

Peace and God bless!

 

[steveandersen]

First off I hope that neither you or your DH will ever be in a position to worry about a living will.

Secondly, as a practical matter the law gives the spouse first say so. Not to be sneaky, but how does the hospital know that DH has a living will? If the hospital doesn’t ask those relatives above you on the list then it is not an issue (if you feel comfortable with going against DH wishes; terrible position to be in). If it does become an issue it would probably take years to wind through the courts at which time nature may have already taken its course. So it is probably not an issue to worry about today and since you DH is under pressure right now with his Father’s condition it might be better to let the matter rest for now and take it up later.

Thirdly, if he feels so strongly about this do you have comfortable assurance that he will carry out your wishes?

Kinda a bad position for both of you to be in.

 

[1ke]

It is unfortunate that you came upon a “living will” with this option in it. This is a terrible thing, and I doubt your husband actually understands what he is asking for.

Yes, continue to pray and continue to discuss it over time. You as the wife, should have a say if he were ever incapacitated. I don’t know what to tell you, maybe talk to a lawyer on the side just to find out how binding such a document really is.

The pro-life group www.all.org has what they call a “loving will” which is within Catholic teaching that you might want to look at for yourself. You need to make your wishes known so that you are not taken off nutrition and hydration should something happen.

 

[BlestOne]

please please please consider making a living will for yourself and outline what you would like if you are in that circumstance. It sounds to me like your hubby would make the wrong choice for you. You may want to keep that document on record at a lawyers office and at a family members home, just in case…

 

[wabrams]

steveandersen:

First off I hope that neither you or your DH will ever be in a position to worry about a living will.

Secondly, as a practical matter the law gives the spouse first say so. Not to be sneaky, but how does the hospital know that DH has a living will? If the hospital doesn’t ask those relatives above you on the list then it is not an issue (if you feel comfortable with going against DH wishes; terrible position to be in). If it does become an issue it would probably take years to wind through the courts at which time nature may have already taken its course. So it is probably not an issue to worry about today and since you DH is under pressure right now with his Father’s condition it might be better to let the matter rest for now and take it up later.

Thirdly, if he feels so strongly about this do you have comfortable assurance that he will carry out your wishes?

Kinda a bad position for both of you to be in.

Easily, the relatives that are to execute the will probably will have knowledge of the document.

 

[marcadam]

psychologist101:

…I told him that I can’t tell a doctor to take out a feeding tube, even if he wants it, because it is so morally wrong. … His solution: remove me from the document entirely, and he put his younger brother, his sister-in-law, then mom. He said “I’m not going to lie around like a ***** carrot because of your beliefs”.

It might have gone down better if you had simply said that if that is indeed his wish, that you couldn’t be his proxy. I would also (calmly!) state that if he believed that he couldn’t be a steadfast advocate for your decision, you would have to go with someone who could.

There are two very sad facts surrounding end-of-life issues: first, most doctors have very…liberal views about the scope of morally-removable “extraordinary means”. Some, if given no direction, will remove feeding and hydration as a matter of course whenever they feel the patient has no likelihood of “quality of life”. The rest will do the same thing even when they are notified of the patient’s wishes to the contrary. You might think this would lead to legal ramifications for the doctor involved, but the sad fact is there are legions of expert witnesses who will come to said doctor’s aid, and given past results, courts tend to favor the medical professional. This happens all the time.

This leads us to our second sad fact: living wills (especially ones in line with Catholic morality) are virtually useless in and of themselves. These documents are easily and routinely ignored. The utmost importance is the health-care proxy. If no one will be there to protect you, your life is in danger. The living will is helpful to the proxy, in terms of documentation of your wishes, but by itself is powerless.

My advice: dispense with these silly online documents entirely. If you haven’t already, have a lawyer help you out with this and with some “real” health-care proxy set-up. Usually you can find someone who can help you and your husband can set up your wills, living wills, and health-care proxy all for around $300-$500. Sounds expensive, but is well worth it.

If you can’t change his mind on this, then excuse yourself from the task. It is your only moral option. But also make it very clear how important this is to you, and get absolute assurances that he will stand up for you against a potentially hostile medical community, no matter whether he thinks you are just a “vegetable”.

God bless you both as you deal with these issues and your father-in-law’s health.

 

[marcadam]

steveandersen:

Secondly, as a practical matter the law gives the spouse first say so. Not to be sneaky, but how does the hospital know that DH has a living will? If the hospital doesn’t ask those relatives above you on the list then it is not an issue (if you feel comfortable with going against DH wishes; terrible position to be in).

The hospital will most likely directly ask if he has a living will, in which case it she would have to lie to cover up its existence or the details of its contents. Even if she could do so morally using some form of mental reservation, there could still be some pretty awful consequences when the so-named health-care proxies do show up.

 

[AnonymousOne]

You might also try to find a well-formed, faithful Catholic PHYSICIAN, as opposed to a lawyer, to discuss this with.

Physicians know how all this stuff goes down as someone is dying. They can help BOTH of you understand when some treatment can truly be considered extraordinary and when it is ordinary.

The line between ordinary and extraordinary can be very gray. You have to take into account the benefit that can be reasonably expected, the additional suffering and expense, the probability of grave side effects, etc.

A physician can help provide some insight into the medical realities your husband may encounter. For example, your husband may say “I don’t want to be put on a ventilator if I’m in a coma.” A physician may be able to help him understand that such a blanket statement doesn’t mean what he thinks it means. He may be in a coma for a day or two after a car accident, and require a ventilator for some short period of time. I would bet a year’s salary that that situation isn’t what he had in mind when making that blanket statement.

A good Catholic physician may be able to guide your husband to understand things in a way that is more compatible with your Catholic faith.

 

[marcadam]

AnonymousOne:

You might also try to find a well-formed, faithful Catholic PHYSICIAN, as opposed to a lawyer, to discuss this with.

I never suggested that a lawyer be consulted about end-of-life issues per se, simply that when considering possible legal ramifications, consulting a lawyer is a good idea–especially as opposed to DIY documents printed out from the internet.

If you are looking for consultation on a specific (or even broad) moral question surrounding end-of-life medical ethics, I wouldn’t even necessarily go to any “well-formed, faithful Catholic PHYSICIAN,” but someone who has had specific training in dealing with these issues, preferrably someone affiliated with the NCBC. Still, this isn’t always possible in an emergency scenario, which is why it is most important to be well-informed and prepared for the eventuality, part of which is seeking the aid of a licensed legal advocate.