Disappointed in local Secular Franciscan chapter

[JReducation]

Unfotunately, it has not been active for awhile. They used to post the hours of exposition, and one could have a little window up in the corner of the monitor when it took place.

I’m wondering if they had to take it down. That happened to the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration. The ruibrics of the diocese said that you could not leave the Blessed Sacrament on display on TV. You could transmit any services such as benediction or a Eucharistic procession, but not leave the Blessed Sacrament on the air. In our diocese the Catholic hospitals would do that too, so that the patients could worship from their rooms. The bishop nixed it. They could transmit the mass into the patients’ room, but not leave a camera on the Blessed Sacrament unless there was a service in progress. Our bishop thought that there was a risk of misunderstanding by the non Catholics and it could be interpreted as some kind of cult.

Every bishop has his own rules. Monastic communities are subject to the local Ordinary, unless they have an Ordinary of their own, such as an Abbot. From what I gather, this commnunity is rather new. They are not yet an abbey. That’s the same problem that the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration face. They are a monastery, not an abbey. Mother Angelica is not an Abbess with the Ordinary authority of an Abbess, which are almost equal to those of a bishop, except for the sacraments.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[franciscanhobbi]

Replying in group link with my name

 

[franciscanhobbi]

I finally found what happened to the website Monks of Adoration, and the community. www.franciscan-sfo.org/p1/monks.html .
I think it is a fair statement to say that that website founded and strengthened my vocation-search. It may have been that putting my soul in touch with Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament strengthened my resolve and charity.
They also had a description as to why it was a good thing to have on the internet. I hope they put that up again. Just as anyone can make an act of spiritual communion anytime anyplace, so the webcam of the monstrance was a way of doing so with a better focus for us visual folks. I loved being reminded that even in the midst of a hectic workday, I was always in the presence and thoughts of Jesus.

www.savior.org has the same thing, but my computer doesn’t allow live streaming, so it was ‘just’ a still picture. It fed my hunger for the love of God and helped me to grow in my interior life.

 

[Augustine]

That’s an interesting formula. I wonder why it is broken down like that. Do you know?

Is the profession received by a friar or by the Superior of the Secular Carmelites?

In order to become an OCDS, the one must make promises as #1. If an OCDS desires to make vows of obedience and chastity, then he makes vows as #2.

The profession is made to the spiritual assistant of the community, an OCD friar, or to an authorized priest, if the friar is a brother.

 

[JReducation]

In order to become an OCDS, the one must make promises as #1. If an OCDS desires to make vows of obedience and chastity, then he makes vows as #2.

The profession is made to the spiritual assistant of the community, an OCD friar, or to an authorized priest, if the friar is a brother.

So the OCDS is not an independent order? And brothers are not equal to priests in the OCD?

I didn’t know this.

Among Franciscans, the Secular Franciscan Order is completely autonomous. The profession is made to the Minister of the Secular Franciscans, who must be a Secular Franciscan. No one else can accept the profession of a Secular Franciscan. Any priest can celebrate the mass. Because profession is a liturgical and canonical act it must take place within a mass.

We do have that two parts as you have explained it.

You may make the promise only or you can make the vows too, if you desire to do so. However, the vows are not required to be a fully professed member of the Secular Franciscans. The only SFOs who make the vows are those who are celibate and it is voluntary.

As to the friar, the Franciscans do not have the distinction between priests and brothers. Every friar is considered a brother and every ordained friar is considered to have a vocation within a vocation, just as much as those friars who are teachers, lawyers, porters, cooks, psychologists, beggers and so forth.

Even among the friars, the major superior can be a lay friar or what is sometimes called a lay brother. In that case, the friar making vows kneels before him and makes the profession of both temporary and solemn vows. An ordained friar will celebrate the mass, but the superior will sit in the presidential chair for the rite of profession and receive the vows in the name of the order and the Church.

The same is the case with the Secular Franciscans. The superior, called the Minister, receives the vows in the name of the order and the Church.

Maybe the difference is that the Carmelites may have the status of a clerical institute, while all Franciscan orders have a status of lay institutes, including the friars, regardless of whether they have priests. This is why we have lay brothers as Superior Generals, Provincials, local superiors even over parishes.

The statutes of some provinces and the generalate forbid the priests calling themselves “Father”. The current Minister General of the Capuchins, I believe is ordained, but he must, by law, sign his name Brother.

They are not just brothers to each other, they are techinically religious brothers who are simultaneously ordained clerics.

Therefore, all superiors among the friars and the secular orders are called Ministers, to lose the difference between the ordained and the non-ordained. There are priests among the Secular Franciscans. If they are elected to office, they are not Father. They are Minister, just like the friars.

The nuns, even though they are enclosed, are always considered lay women, as are the sisters who are in active ministry.

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Benedictines also follow the same structure. They too are an order of lay brothers, even if they are ordained or secular priests who are oblates. The Marianists also follow the same canonical status.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Augustine]

So the OCDS is not an independent order? And brothers are not equal to priests in the OCD?

No, the OCDS is under the jurisdiction of the OCD friars, which also has jurisdiction over many of the OCD nuns.

Yes, an OCD brother is equal to an OCD priest, but he obviously cannot officiate a mass. I think that some positions of leadership also require an ordained friar, probably related to the CCL which requires that ordained men be subordinate to an ordained man in some cases.

Then again, as an OCDS novice, studying the OCDS legislation is my priority, not the OCD one.

We do have that two parts as you have explained it. You may make the promise only or you can make the vows too, if you desire to do so. However, the vows are not required to be a fully professed member of the Secular Franciscans. The only SFOs who make the vows are those who are celibate and it is voluntary.

Indeed, any baptized person has the right to make vows, whether belonging to an order or not. However, the OCDS legislation is specific about an OCDS taking vows. Of course, the vows might have been taken before the promises, when their status remains the same.

Maybe the difference is that the Carmelites may have the status of a clerical institute, while all Franciscan orders have a status of lay institutes, including the friars, regardless of whether they have priests. This is why we have lay brothers as Superior Generals, Provincials, local superiors even over parishes.

I don’t know the answer to this.

The nuns, even though they are enclosed, are always considered lay women, as are the sisters who are in active ministry.

Technically, aren’t all non-ordained people lay?

 

[JReducation]

No, the OCDS is under the jurisdiction of the OCD friars, which also has jurisdiction over many of the OCD nuns.

Yes, an OCD brother is equal to an OCD priest, but he obviously cannot officiate a mass. I think that some positions of leadership also require an ordained friar, probably related to the CCL which requires that ordained men be subordinate to an ordained man in some cases.

Then again, as an OCDS novice, studying the OCDS legislation is my priority, not the OCD one.
Indeed, any baptized person has the right to make vows, whether belonging to an order or not. However, the OCDS legislation is specific about an OCDS taking vows. Of course, the vows might have been taken before the promises, when their status remains the same.
I don’t know the answer to this.
Technically, aren’t all non-ordained people lay?

Thanks for this information. This really helped me understand the OCDS better. I’m familiar with the OCD friars, we went through theology together. But I have never had contact with the OCDS.

In some ways the two families are similar and then they are different. This is the way that is is supposed to be. Religious families should not be clones of each other. They are gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit does not duplicate the same gifts. What purpose would that serve? You know what I mean?

The only position of leadership among Franciscans that require a priest is that of pastor. The superior may be a priest or lay brother. What is usually done is when the superior is a lay brother, the local bishop gants faculties, because a lay brother cannot grant faculties. Interestingly enough, the superior, even if he’s a lay brother, can suspend a priest under holy obedience.

The answer to your question, all non ordained are lay men. All who are not in vows are secular. They are not status. They are simply groupings for the purpose of government.

Thanks for telling us about the OCDS.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[odopa]

Has any body realised how gracious JR is? Your answers smack of humility, patience, genuine desire to help and I think it is only fair that I let you know I am impressed with your answers and your thread. I dont know much about and would be grateful if you could tell me more about yourself. I know you are Friar but that is it.
thanks.

 

[iloveangels]

You probably should spend more time to study what SFO is about.

The problem is that I’m not sure that the SFO knows what the SFO is about.