Disapproving a marriage

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JesuXPIPassio

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A lot of this will sound rather crude; let me apologise for it beforehand. The entire situation is very sordid, and I won’t bother polishing my words here so that you can understand this fully and give me suitable advice.

I have a nephew who’s four years younger than me and he and I are very close. He’s goodlooking, was a model and an actor on a reality show (it wasn’t in the US). He has had severe issues with his personality, and the word a–hole is frequently applied to him. As the person closest to him, I can say that word is fitting. On the reality show where he was, he was voted out because of his personality; he became so hated that our family was afraid he would be booed off the street. For years I had been telling him about his personality problems and he was always in denial; the TV show he was on was popular, so when he went on, pretty much the whole country thought the same thing I was telling him for years, so he got in touch with reality. Although he changed for the better and now knows how to handle himself in front of others, he still has that a–hole side in him.

He also wants to always be on top. He insists that he was so very popular (he wasn’t); he actually once told me that he’s the best looking person in his country (he’s not even the best looking person in his family); he kept trying to measure his height against mine because he wanted to be able to brag he was taller than me, even though he isn’t. Once, he was playing billiards with his dad; his dad kept beating him, and he kept insisting on playing another game, wasn’t satisfied until he won just so he can brag that he won. He always wants to be on top, even if it’s based on lies.

As a Christian, it’s hard to say that someone is not redeemable. But I look at my nephew and I have serious doubts that he can. It’s not for the lack of God’s grace, but it’s just that my nephew is that egotistical, can be that awful. His parents tell me they saw he was like that even since he was a small child. At times were things were difficult for me when I had to choose to do the right thing but ended up suffering for it, he would tell me “Nice guys finish last.” It is not beneath him to step on other people just to prop himself up.

He’s can be very difficult and obnoxious. It’s hard to be patient with him and even his parents want to throw him out of the house as soon as he gets out of college, and it’s understandably so. He’s like a caricature rather than a real human being.

In college, he got into a relationship with a girl. She has wealthy grandparents and a wealthy uncle; her immediate family is also wealthy but not as wealthy as her other relatives, though she tries to make people think they are. It’s about as logical as me saying that I own what my aunt owns.

My nephew is obviously just with her because of the status that he wants. She’s just with him because, to be perfectly frank, she cannot do any better. I’m really sorry to say it this way, but she is not pretty. At all.

My nephew verbally insists that he isn’t with her for money, and he’s a very good liar. But I tested him and found that he’s lying. I did this a lot; my suspicions were repeatedly confirmed that he’s just a gold digger. The rest of the family and other onlookers think so too. It’s very apparent.

It is also apparent to me that his girlfriend is aware that my nephew is like that. I can see how she lies to make herself seem to worldly. It’s happened a lot. She does it just to convince him more to stick with her. She’s just that needy. What’s also sad is that when I expose her lies to him, he always tries to convince himself that it’s justified. For example, on her 18th birthday, she claimed that she spent a very large amount on the party. I went there and it would amaze me if it even cost 1/10 of what she claimed it did. I brought that up to my nephew, and he was just in denial, wanting to believe the lie rather than believing the truth that he can see. I had to be more blunt about it; I said, “What made it cost that much? Were the chairs made out of solid gold? Was the MC really the Queen of England dressed in men’s clothing? Did Wolfgang Puck make the meals himself?” I mean, she said she was going to arrive at the party in a stretch limo; she didn’t. And he saw that for himself but just would make up an excuse in his mind. He wants to believe the lie.

She also bosses him around and acts like she’s so powerful because that’s her way of convincing him that she’s so big. She buys him gifts and makes it as if she spends so much on him, although I’ve bought him gifts that cost more. And she always makes such a big deal about what she gets him. I think he’s so easily fooled by it because his parents aren’t very nurturing and they deprive their sons a lot and spoil their youngest daughter instead; my nephew didn’t get much from them, so when he does get stuff from his girlfriend, it’s easy to impress him by it.

Basically this relationship is that he’s selling himself and she’s buying.

The problem is that it doesn’t look like this awful relationship is going to end. They’ve been together for almost two years, my nephew has already weasled himself into her family and makes it as if they’re engaged. It’s very disgusting.

(continued below)
 
(continued)

A part of me intends to cut him out of my life. He’s going to become more of a monster and I’m just going to want to avoid him. I’m not going to want him around me as he turns more into the Emperor from Star Wars or some other horrible dictator; his personality is already on the way to that and watching it turn out that way is basic political science. But, I also don’t feel right abandoning him. Although he can be a really horrible person, he has done a lot for me and was there for me when I really needed him.

About them getting married, it’s extremely difficult to just sit on the sidelines as this abomination takes place. After having tested both of them, I can say that this relationship is not real love. It would be an abomination toward the Sacrament.

But then again, I also feel that once the Church makes something official like a wedding, it would be wrong for me to protest.

Another option would be for me to just sit back and watch, let it be for God to do. This kind of appeals to me, because this marriage is just going to end in shambles with my nephew being trampled over by her lies. Thing is, this is in a country where divorce is illegal, so he’s going to be bound to her no matter what. More importantly, there will have been the indissolvable Sacramental bond, and it doesn’t sound as if this is grounds for an annulment.

So, is this the answer? Do I just watch as this evil happens? It’s difficult, it’s like being Pius XII and watching the Nazis kill the Jews. Pius didn’t just sit there; he did what he could about it, saved lives of half a million Jews, prepared a resignation in case Hitler came. He didn’t just watch and wait for Hitler to kill himself. It would have been irresponsible to do that.

Is it irresponsible for me to just watch and wait for it to implode? I can tell you positively that even other family members just want to watch him fail, because his ego is just that big and he is that awful about it. I can detail how he is more here, but I don’t wanna fill this post up with that; I just put a few basics about the way he is to get you to understand him somewhat.

There is, of course, prayer. I could pray for him and hope he fixes himself. But Pius XII didn’t just pray that the Nazi regime would end. John Paul II didn’t just pray that Communism would fall. They actually did somethiong about it.

I also feel that it’s a disservice to my nephew, my best friend, someone who really loves me and is good to me when he’s not being obnoxious. While it is his choice to marry into that awful relationship, am I not obliged to help show him this is a raw deal? My nephew is like Faust; he’s selling his soul for worldly things. I love him dearly, we’re like brothers, and it’s hard for me to watch this happen. Incidentally my other nephew, who actually is his brother, just intends to watch; his sentiments are that it’s his brother’s problem. Being indifferent doesn’t feel correct, but I don’t wanna be a busybody butting in his life either.

Can anyone out there give me some advice?

If you want more details, please message me privately about them. I won’t give you specifics, like their names or anything like that, but I can give more anecdotes that help illustrate the situation. But if you have some good advice and won’t need more details, you can post them here instead, so others can look at your advice and we can discuss each other’s ethical views.
 
Advice? Stay out of it. It is not your business.
Wow. very unhelpful. I addressed that aspect in my original posts, you’re not even gonna rebut what I wrote, huh?

No need to reply, I don’t wanna hear from people with no manners like yourself.
 
…

So, is this the answer? Do I just watch as this evil happens?

Is it irresponsible for me to just watch and wait for it to implode? I can tell you positively that even other family members just want to watch him fail, because his ego is just that big and he is that awful about it. I can detail how he is more here, but I don’t wanna fill this post up with that; I just put a few basics about the way he is to get you to understand him somewhat.

…

Can anyone out there give me some advice?

…
Marriage is not a private matter at all. Proof? Do you know what banns were? Until 1983 the summons of a marriage could be posted. They used to ask that if anybody knew a cause or just impediment against Holy Matrimony, to declare it.

You should act, but must avoid detraction and calumny. Most likely you need to talk to the parish priest that will marry them.
 
Marriage is not a private matter at all. Proof? Do you know what banns were? Until 1983 the summons of a marriage could be posted. They used to ask that if anybody knew a cause or just impediment against Holy Matrimony, to declare it.

You should act, but must avoid detraction and calumny. Most likely you need to talk to the parish priest that will marry them.
Thank you, your post was helpful. Actually in the country where they are, marriage banns are still in place. The parish I go to there announces upcoming nuptials in the announcements before Mass is done, and the names are also posted in the bulletin.

Yes, I did consider the marriage bann, but it doesn’t seem that a priest would step in unless there were a more objective reason to it, like one of the couple has a valid marriage with someone else.

I won’t know how to articulate that this marriage would be a rise to a new Hitler without being dismissed off. It’s something very hard to explain to someone.
 
(continued)

A part of me intends to cut him out of my life. He’s going to become more of a monster and I’m just going to want to avoid him. I’m not going to want him around me as he turns more into the Emperor from Star Wars or some other horrible dictator; his personality is already on the way to that and watching it turn out that way is basic political science. But, I also don’t feel right abandoning him. Although he can be a really horrible person, he has done a lot for me and was there for me when I really needed him.

About them getting married, it’s extremely difficult to just sit on the sidelines as this abomination takes place. After having tested both of them, I can say that this relationship is not real love. It would be an abomination toward the Sacrament.

But then again, I also feel that once the Church makes something official like a wedding, it would be wrong for me to protest.

Another option would be for me to just sit back and watch, let it be for God to do. This kind of appeals to me, because this marriage is just going to end in shambles with my nephew being trampled over by her lies. Thing is, this is in a country where divorce is illegal, so he’s going to be bound to her no matter what. More importantly, there will have been the indissolvable Sacramental bond, and it doesn’t sound as if this is grounds for an annulment.

So, is this the answer? Do I just watch as this evil happens? It’s difficult, it’s like being Pius XII and watching the Nazis kill the Jews. Pius didn’t just sit there; he did what he could about it, saved lives of half a million Jews, prepared a resignation in case Hitler came. He didn’t just watch and wait for Hitler to kill himself. It would have been irresponsible to do that.

Is it irresponsible for me to just watch and wait for it to implode? I can tell you positively that even other family members just want to watch him fail, because his ego is just that big and he is that awful about it. I can detail how he is more here, but I don’t wanna fill this post up with that; I just put a few basics about the way he is to get you to understand him somewhat.

There is, of course, prayer. I could pray for him and hope he fixes himself. But Pius XII didn’t just pray that the Nazi regime would end. John Paul II didn’t just pray that Communism would fall. They actually did somethiong about it.

I also feel that it’s a disservice to my nephew, my best friend, someone who really loves me and is good to me when he’s not being obnoxious. While it is his choice to marry into that awful relationship, am I not obliged to help show him this is a raw deal? My nephew is like Faust; he’s selling his soul for worldly things. I love him dearly, we’re like brothers, and it’s hard for me to watch this happen. Incidentally my other nephew, who actually is his brother, just intends to watch; his sentiments are that it’s his brother’s problem. Being indifferent doesn’t feel correct, but I don’t wanna be a busybody butting in his life either.

Can anyone out there give me some advice?

If you want more details, please message me privately about them. I won’t give you specifics, like their names or anything like that, but I can give more anecdotes that help illustrate the situation. But if you have some good advice and won’t need more details, you can post them here instead, so others can look at your advice and we can discuss each other’s ethical views.
Honestly, what can you do? Your options seem rather clear to me (I have an outsider’s view). You’ve already told him how you feel about the situation, now, leave it alone. This isn’t the same situation Pope Pius XII found himself in… no one is being murdered. Your nephew can marry if he chooses to do so. If you push the matter, you may find yourself cut off all together from any relationship with your nephew. Then what?

As a side note however, I would suggest that you may be obsessed with your nephew’s life in general and need to step back and evaluate your feelings regarding him and the choices he makes. You started this thread by bashing him; then you moved on to bash his girlfriend, then I see you making a brief statement saying that he’s “someone who really loves me and is good to me when he’s not being obnoxious.” Then you go on to repeat a comparison to your nephew’s situation and the Nazi regime. You seem to be all over the map on this issue and perhaps you just need to step back and “let God.”
 
Honestly, what can you do? Your options seem rather clear to me (I have an outsider’s view). You’ve already told him how you feel about the situation, now, leave it alone. This isn’t the same situation Pope Pius XII found himself in… no one is being murdered. Your nephew can marry if he chooses to do so. If you push the matter, you may find yourself cut off all together from any relationship with your nephew. Then what?

As a side note however, I would suggest that you may be obsessed with your nephew’s life in general and need to step back and evaluate your feelings regarding him and the choices he makes. You started this thread by bashing him; then you moved on to bash his girlfriend, then I see you making a brief statement saying that he’s “someone who really loves me and is good to me when he’s not being obnoxious.” Then you go on to repeat a comparison to your nephew’s situation and the Nazi regime. You seem to be all over the map on this issue and perhaps you just need to step back and “let God.”
That’s also very fair advice, although I don’t think I’m as erratic about this as it may seem. Though I don’t think your judgement of me is accurate, I do think that your advice to just let it happen is valid. Thank you for that.
 
Thank you, your post was helpful. Actually in the country where they are, marriage banns are still in place. The parish I go to there announces upcoming nuptials in the announcements before Mass is done, and the names are also posted in the bulletin.

Yes, I did consider the marriage bann, but it doesn’t seem that a priest would step in unless there were a more objective reason to it, like one of the couple has a valid marriage with someone else.

I won’t know how to articulate that this marriage would be a rise to a new Hitler without being dismissed off. It’s something very hard to explain to someone.
Ouch!

If somebody is a liar, they can simulate the vows, and all will seem ok to others. If the vows are simulated then the Holy Spirit will not be able to work in their marriage. It could end badly, as you think. They have to both agree to:

fidelity as long as they both live
exclusivity
give normal conjugal rights apt to generation of children
raise any children in the Church
actually marry with Church approval (not a civil marriage)

And then there are several impediments to consider. I’m assuming there are no impediments. Approval of the family is important, I wonder if the priest would ask about that?
 
Ouch!

If somebody is a liar, they can simulate the vows, and all will seem ok to others. If the vows are simulated then the Holy Spirit will not be able to work in their marriage. It could end badly, as you think. They have to both agree to:

fidelity as long as they both live
exclusivity
give normal conjugal rights apt to generation of children
raise any children in the Church
actually marry with Church approval (not a civil marriage)

And then there are several impediments to consider. I’m assuming there are no impediments. Approval of the family is important, I wonder if the priest would ask about that?
Oh, with the issue of fidelity, we can pretty much count that out. Though he will promise it, he won’t hold up to it. He has cheated on her and actually left a previous girlfriend to be with her. That previous girlfriend attempted suicide for it, and my nephew just ridiculed her for it. It’s very unreal. He frequents strip clubs and does things with those strippers/hookers (and no I’ve never gone with him and I just won’t).

He’ll lie and promise to be faithful, but it’s not gonna happen. I know this because he and I actually talked about it. So much for when he says he loves her… I guess I should have included that detail in the first posts.

There are no impediments, if by that we mean blood relation or previous marriages. Those are the criteria mentioned on the Catholic Encyclopedia in the Marriage Bann article. Their marriage would also not be the result of coercion.

As strong as my concerns are, they could easily just be written off as me just not liking her.
 
Wow right back at you. I was offering you advice that I would give anyone who seems to be so involved in someone else’s life. Your post, in my own humble opinion, seems filled with judgement calls on your nephew’s life. If you have concerns, then address them to the priest or to your nephew, but that is about all you can do. Then you stop obsessing about the whole thing.

Your nephew may be a completely different person than the one your are painting in your post. Sorry if I was attempting to protect someone’s reputation that you seem to enjoy trashing albeit anonymously.

The sacrament of marriage offers graces to the couple that cannot be truly understood by those outside the marriage, as each couple is different. Those graces allow one spouse to stand beside the other even through horrific trials. If there is no impediment to their marriage, and you have addressed your concerns to the appropriate people, then you should step out of the situation.
Wow. very unhelpful. I addressed that aspect in my original posts, you’re not even gonna rebut what I wrote, huh?

No need to reply, I don’t wanna hear from people with no manners like yourself.
 
OP, I’m afraid I’m going to have to settle with the “stay out of it” crowd. You seem a little over-concerned with your nephew and his girlfriend. Do you have children of your own? If so, spend time with them. If not, get a hobby, join a club, something to distract you from this situation. And just as a matter of interest, what country exactly do you reside in?
 
Oh, with the issue of fidelity, we can pretty much count that out. Though he will promise it, he won’t hold up to it. He has cheated on her and actually left a previous girlfriend to be with her. That previous girlfriend attempted suicide for it, and my nephew just ridiculed her for it. It’s very unreal. He frequents strip clubs and does things with those strippers/hookers (and no I’ve never gone with him and I just won’t).

He’ll lie and promise to be faithful, but it’s not gonna happen. I know this because he and I actually talked about it. So much for when he says he loves her… I guess I should have included that detail in the first posts.

There are no impediments, if by that we mean blood relation or previous marriages. Those are the criteria mentioned on the Catholic Encyclopedia in the Marriage Bann article. Their marriage would also not be the result of coercion.

As strong as my concerns are, they could easily just be written off as me just not liking her.
People that are unmarried do not have a sexual vow or duty other than the one everybody has, to be chaste, so I always wonder at the use of the term “cheating” for anything but adultery. I suppose it can be taken as a synonym for fornicating.

If he does not intend to be faithful, then that invalidates consent, which means the Holy Spirit will not be able to work in their relationship. I would just say that he has a serious problem with lust and is not a good candidate for marriage. So the bride to be knows this?
 
Are they Catholic, non-Catholic Christians or none of the above?

Chuck
 
Based on your post, they sound like typical, immature young people. They do things to impress each other, are blind to lies, and a lot of young men do stupid things like go to strip clubs or (both young men and young women) start a new relationship even though they’re already dating someone.

I think they are just too young to get married. How old are they now? 18? 20? People grow up slower these days. 100 years ago, getting married at 18/20 was normal. People also didn’t live as long, and 100 years before that girls were married off in their early to mid teens. Especially in this new “me” age, people are often too selfish to get married before they reach a certain age. They are into themselves and seeking pleasure, and not about the selflessness and commitment that is required for marriage and family.

Studies show that the brain isn’t even done developing until you are 25-30. These two aren’t even the people they’re going to be yet, and they are definitlely not ready for marriage.
 
If he does not intend to be faithful, then that invalidates consent, which means the Holy Spirit will not be able to work in their relationship. I would just say that he has a serious problem with lust and is not a good candidate for marriage. So the bride to be knows this?
No, she doesn’t know.

It may invalidate consent, but that doesn’t seem like a Sacramental impediment. In other words, I’m guessing a priest won’t stop the marriage due to this.
Are they Catholic, non-Catholic Christians or none of the above?

Chuck
Both are Catholic.
How old are they now? 18? 20? People grow up slower these days. 100 years ago, getting married at 18/20 was normal. People also didn’t live as long, and 100 years before that girls were married off in their early to mid teens. Especially in this new “me” age, people are often too selfish to get married before they reach a certain age. They are into themselves and seeking pleasure, and not about the selflessness and commitment that is required for marriage and family.

Studies show that the brain isn’t even done developing until you are 25-30. These two aren’t even the people they’re going to be yet, and they are definitlely not ready for marriage.
He’s turning 22 in a couple weeks, she’s turning 20 in December.

While it does seem like normal immaturity, what I see in them is worse than what I see in other couples of the same age, and I’ve observed them enough to be able to say that they probably won’t get to the stage of a normal relationship. To put it bluntly, my nephew’s just that evil and his girlfriend is just that needy. They’ve been at this for two years now and nothing has changed, except perhaps that these things look like they’ve become more cemented with time.
 
OP, I’m afraid I’m going to have to settle with the “stay out of it” crowd. You seem a little over-concerned with your nephew and his girlfriend. Do you have children of your own? If so, spend time with them. If not, get a hobby, join a club, something to distract you from this situation. And just as a matter of interest, what country exactly do you reside in?
Thanks for your response. I don’t have kids, I’m not much older than my nephew is. I also do keep busy with a lot of stuff. I really don’t think it’s me being a busybody in his business. But it’s just that he can be that foul. Really, really foul. How much worse he will become is predictable. For me, this has been an issue of stopping the rise of someone who’ll be horrible and step over other people with it (hence the Hitler analogy). It sounds like overdramatising, but I could story after story about how bad he can be.
 
No, she doesn’t know.

It may invalidate consent, but that doesn’t seem like a Sacramental impediment. In other words, I’m guessing a priest won’t stop the marriage due to this.

Both are Catholic.

He’s turning 22 in a couple weeks, she’s turning 20 in December.

While it does seem like normal immaturity, what I see in them is worse than what I see in other couples of the same age, and I’ve observed them enough to be able to say that they probably won’t get to the stage of a normal relationship. To put it bluntly, my nephew’s just that evil and his girlfriend is just that needy. They’ve been at this for two years now and nothing has changed, except perhaps that these things look like they’ve become more cemented with time.
There are three general causes of invalidity/non-existence of a marriage:
  1. lack of form (it can be dispensed)
  2. impediment (some can be dispensed)
  3. lack of consent (can never be dispensed)
In the USA there are questions asked by the priest, such as:

Do you intend a life-long marriage, totally faithful to your spouse?
Do you intend to give each other the normal marital rights necessary to have children?
Are you consenting to this marriage freely without force, fear, or doubt of any kind?

If the priest learns from them that the consent is invalid, he will not marry them.

If they are currently not remaining chaste (both of them) then they can easily make the mistake in choosing a spouse.
 
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