Discerning a Conservative Jesuit Vocation

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Matthew22

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Hello everyone.

I know you may be confused by the title of this thread at the fact that there are not many conservative Jesuits these days, which is very unfortunate. In fact, the order goes so far as to replace the Gospel of Jesus Christ with social justice these days. However, I have come to know very traditional Jesuit priests at my high school who have struck an attraction in me to this type of lifestyle. (Particularly a Jesuit, however a traditional one, as well.) I was wondering if anyone had any tips on discernment specifically to the Jesuit priesthood. I don’t want to read books by James Martin or any Jesuit as such, I want good, true, Catholic resources for my discernment especially in an order as this one.

Thanks for all the help,
Matthew
 
Matthew,
Bless you. Fr Brett Brannen’s book “To Save a Thousand Souls” is about the process for becoming a diocesan priest.
However, it describes the discernment process very well. I highly recommend it!
 
Matthew22 said:
I was wondering if anyone had any tips on discernment specifically to the Jesuit priesthood.
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The irony here is that there is no Order, as a whole, that understands the discernment process better than the Jesuits. They’ve pretty much brought it to an art form.

So naturally, my advice is to talk to the Jesuits. It doesn’t have to be the vocation director, but just someone from your school perhaps, and let them know your interest, and that you’d like to know more. Before I joined the Capuchins, I considered the Jesuits and did just that. The Jesuit priest I talked to ended up becoming my first spiritual director. Although I ended up elsewhere, I have nothing but respect for him and the Jesuits. They remain one of my favorite communities.

If you talk to one of them, he will certainly have more recommendations for you, such as things to read, etc.

Some of my other recommendations, in addition to talking to a Jesuit directly:
  • Read the autobiography of St. Ignatius of Loyola.
  • Go on a weekend-long intro to Spiritual Exercises retreat.
  • Read a book on Spiritual Exercises, discernment of Spirits, or Ignatian Spirituality.
  • I know you said you don’t like James Martin, but I actually thought his book “The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything” was a great intro to to the Jesuits through their spirituality.
 
Thank you so much. I actually did read that book by James Martin, it wasn’t bad. I’d just like to stick to other authors nowadays. But anyways, I will definitely talk to a priest!

God bless.
 
The Jesuits have a profound history and spirituality. Most of the recommendations here on things to read are very good.

I’ve heard some struggle while reading the spiritual exercises themselves as they aren’t really meant to just be read. They are meant for somebody guiding another person through the spiritual exercises. So an alternative book that describes the spiritual exercises well would be helpful.

Some things I’d ask…No need respond. You can if you want. Why specifically do you want to be a Jesuit? Many of them are academics. They are high school teachers, college professors, or researchers around the world. Is this what you are interested in? I get that by the way. I could potential like that lifestyle. There are also many Jesuit Parishes around the nation. Is this what you are interested in?

Sometimes I attend a Jesuit Parish. I enjoy the homilies and activities most of the time. I’d say I’m a moderate. I can see both sides. These Jesuits are significantly more progressive than me. Some things have bothered me. I won’t go into details, but the heavy political homilies bother me. So think about where you might fit in.
 
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I was initially attracted to the order because of a priest that was at my high school for my freshman and sophomore years. He was young, relatable, very traditional, great at leading retreats and spiritual direction, was a liturgist and could celebrate in multiple rites. He was just what the Church moving forward needs in Her priests and Bishops. I also feel that, from personal experience, the high school years are the most influential years in establishing that solid foundation of faith. Today, more than ever, there is a need to be there for teens and youth in general, as we live in a society that promotes all things pleasurable that eventually lead to destruction, which youth so easily give into, myself included sometimes, these days. That’s why I feel attracted to the high school campus ministry life with the Jesuits. Parish life is also attractive in some ways, as well. I’d just like to imitate that great priest one day.
 
You’re asking a very specific question, which I have put in about 7 years study on myself, so I can share what I know.

I’m 50 and I live in the WashDC area. In Washington DC, we have two schools of Catholic thought: on the North side of town is the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception and the area around it known as “the little vatican”; on the south side of town is Georgetown University. All the government builds are in between. The way I like to think of it - whether you swing left or right - we have them surrounded… 🙂

1st Response: I am myself very Franciscan in Spirit with a traditionalist and (moderate) conservative lean, although I very much like the Jesuits, too. St Ignatius loved St Francis of Assisi, and it was while convalescing at Manresa that Ignatius first read and was inspired to conversion by St Francis’. So my first response is, if you want to understand the Jesuits in a traditional sense, then read all the Franciscan (and Dominican) literature, too.

2nd Response: It may help to understand why the Jesuits are so “different”. You have to look at the time in which St Ignatius lived and the relevant issues of his day. He was confronting the protestant-reformation, and the fight he was fighting wouldn’t have been like St Francis of Assisi’s. St Francis, like Ignatius, originally wanted to be a valiant knight, and he tried it, but God soon called him to the religious life. Ignatius was a much more experienced soldier by the time he came across the Franciscan writings, and he wanted to fight for the Catholic Church against heresies that did not exist at St Francis’ time. So, second, I would try to discern the difference between the way in which St Francis would do things from the way in which Ignatius would do things. Noting - St Ignatius wrote a lot of stuff, but the accounts of St Francis’ were mostly written by his friends.

3rd Response: In a more contemporary sense, i.e. with respect to Vatican II - after Vatican II was released around 1966, the orders, congregations and societies all found V2 so different, they didn’t know how to implement it. Consequently, then asked the Vatican, “What do we do?” The Vatican’s reply was basically to go back to the original constitutions upon which the orders was founded upon. Per the Jesuits, There is a book with the discussion of this transition here:

https://www.ignatius.com/The-Re-Formed-Jesuits-P2076.aspx

I can assure you of it’s validity because my own Jesuit Spiritual Director is mentioned in the book, as well as many of his colleagues, and they’ve witnessed to the post-V2 changes.
 
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4th Response: Working with people on both sides of DC has been an interesting experience. They can all be very nice and welcoming, as they should be, but the downside is - on the north side of DC, they can be a bit crankier and more liturgically correct than on the south side. On the south side, I dont think I’ve ever had anyone be mean to me, but trying to deal with them is like herding cats. The south side folks are also much more “Type-A”. It’s an interesting distinction in light of St Francis’ influence because St Francis was deliberately very poor and simple, whereas it seems like a lot of the stuff at Georgetown has to be par excellence. This could be because of Georgetown’s reputation, but sometimes it seems like even simple stuff gets overlooked for some reason.

5th Response: I’m not sure if this is the best resource, but how about asking Fr Mitch Pacwa? I think he is more along the conservative lines, if I understand it correctly. Being affiliated with EWTN, which is usually conservative, it would make sense Fr Mitch might adhere more closely to traditional thinking, and yet he is a Jesuit with a call-in number to his show. He might be able to better speak to the matter for you.

So… hmmm… well, that’s about the best I can think of to tell you for now…

Ad Jesu Per Mariam!
Totus Tuus,

wm
 
I’ll note that the Jesuit and Franciscan spiritualities can almost be seen as the two “poles” of modern Catholic spirituality. Most others have varying amounts of each, and sometimes other things as well/
 
@Matthew22: God bless you, and welcome to CAF. I offer this prayer for your vocation journey.

Prayer to Know Vocation

O Holy Spirit, Spirit of Wisdom and Divine
Love, impart Your knowledge, understanding,
and counsel to all those seeking their vocations.
May they know wherein they can best serve
God.

Give them courage and strength to follow
God’s holy will. Guide their uncertain steps,
strengthen their resolution, shield their
chastity, fashion their minds, conquer their
hearts, and lead them to the vineyards where
they will labor in God’s holy service. Through
Christ our Lord, amen.

– EWTN
 
I don’t sense a polemic relationship between the two orders, except perhaps through the eyes of traditionalists.

I once had one conservative convert to Catholicism in the Franciscan order refer to Jesuits as heretics, but that was really all.

I’m sure you could find more, but some tradtionalists have even critisized the Franciscans for being too liberal, even in a modern sense.

My Jesuit Spiritual Director, who was a very gentle, yet liberal fellow, used to say he loved saying the Traditional Latin Mass.

I’ve seen people from the orders all sit down together at conferences, and there is a sort of congenial camaraderie amongst them.

So? They disagree. I dont think any of them see it as grounds to burn each other at the stake (anymore). 🙂

 
Wm777 said:
I don’t sense a polemic relationship between the two orders, except perhaps through the eyes of traditionalists.
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I very much don’t mean a polemical relationship!

I also don’t see them as disagreement or conflict.

They are different approaches or focuses.

In fact, I’m fond of both. I’m Jesuit educated, and love the intellectual rigor, but found my place in Eastern Catholicism, whose spirituality is more akin to the Franciscans.

(I’ve also been known to observe that Jesuit music is as bad as Franciscan art . . .😱😜🤣 [for those who have never seen it, or been in a Franciscan retreat house, they tend to favor very “primitive” art {think “pre Columbian”}–but this is probably an aspect of the same emphasis on simplicity that led to them been one of two groups to have general success in converting the American Indians {the other being the Jesuits, who are unwilling to entertain the possibility that there is anyone, anywhere, that they can’t teach anything . . .}]).

When I refer to “poles”, I mean something to the effect of base or starting positions. Both are entirely feasible ways to reach God, even though they’re about as different as you can get. Pieces of both, in varying quantities are used in most other approaches.

The Church would be far poorer if both were not present . . .

hawk, who would have been a Jesuit if it weren’t for that celibacy thing . . .
 
dochawk said:
When I refer to “poles”, I mean something to the effect of base or starting positions. Both are entirely feasible ways to reach God, even though they’re about as different as you can get. Pieces of both, in varying quantities are used in most other approaches.
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I’d actually argue that the two spiritualities are the same thing. St Ignatius just described it More systematically.
 
Okay, I see what you mean now, and, yes, that makes a lot of sense.

In my experience, Franciscans tend to be so simplistic and exuberant, they will just jump into things without even really thinking about what they are doing. On the other hand, it seems like the Jesuits are so attuned to examining everything (literally, from the Examen) they seem to become so analytical, it might be like they become too analytical. However, one of Georgetown JD’s, who also happens to have a PhD in Theology, once replied to my comment, “Are you kidding? Have you ever seen the liquor cabinets of some Jesuits?” Seeing as how I was a visitor on his home turf, I just responded. “Uhmmm… no…”

Still not sure how I could have best replied to that… but maybe it explains some of their more extreme doctrines? Maybe some of them take that Pentecostal line about “new wine” a bit too literally… 🙂
 
Wm777 said:
In my experience, Franciscans tend to be so simplistic and exuberant, they will just jump into things without even really thinking about what they are doing.
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Really? I’m speechless! Your understanding of the Franciscan rule and the Franciscan way is absolutely underwhelming!

But Francis endured similar misconceptions, even from his own father.

Peace and all Good!
 
FOG said:
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Wm777:
In my experience, Franciscans tend to be so simplistic and exuberant, they will just jump into things without even really thinking about what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Really? I’m speechless! Your understanding of the Franciscan rule and the Franciscan way is absolutely underwhelming!

But Francis endured similar misconceptions, even from his own father.

Peace and all Good!
Click to expand...
😐

Instead of ridiculing a legitimate response and a person’s religious sensibilities, which is neither Franciscan nor Christian, you might do better to consider the person’s point of view before jumping to rash and baseless conclusions.

I would have no problem at all easily proving my statements over and over and over and over again straight from the rule, the literature and direct experience, as well as from many Franciscans themselves who have been my friends and (sometimes) Spiritual Directors over the past 17 years.

As a sampling of what I mean, it would be best to consider that the OP of this thread did not even begin to ask about St Francis, and yet you are yourself are way off-topic in slinging insults.

If you would like to take the matter private, feel free to privately message me. However, since you’re up to slinging accusations, you’d best be able to justify the accusation - otherwise, you’re just being insulting, and I wont waste my time with you because you won’t be willing to listen to reason, or stand corrected…

🤨
 
Welcome to the forum.
The Jesuit order is truly great.
There is but one truth, that taught by Jesus Christ.
There was no conservative Jesus, no liberal Jesus, nor amiddle of the road Jesus…
I am bothered by those who would mix religion with politics. But that seems to be the norm of our times.
 
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