Discerning a Conservative Jesuit Vocation

[FOG]

My comments are in bold, addressing your comments

Instead of ridiculing a legitimate response and a person’s religious sensibilities, which is neither Franciscan nor Christian, you might do better to consider the person’s point of view before jumping to rash and baseless conclusions.

Me thinks thou protest too much…fraternal correction, as I will evidence, is very Christian.

Nor was your rather inaccurate, judgmental, and uncharitable post “they [Franciscans] will jump into things without even really thinking about what they are doing” an example of “a legitimate response and a person’s religious sensitivities”.

I would have no problem at all easily proving my statements over and over and over and over again straight from the rule, the literature and direct experience, as well as from many Franciscans themselves who have been my friends and (sometimes) Spiritual Directors over the past 17 years.

There is no credence to your claim that you “would have no problem at all easily proving your statements”, because your statements were opinion and hardly fact.

As a sampling of what I mean, it would be best to consider that the OP of this thread did not even begin to ask about St Francis, and yet you are yourself are way off-topic in slinging insults.

I was “off-topic” ? You, madam, introduced Franciscanism into the thread with your uneducated assessment of the Order, in your irrelevant post incorrectly painting Franciscan thought.

If you would like to take the matter private, feel free to privately message me. However, since you’re up to slinging accusations, you’d best be able to justify the accusation - otherwise, you’re just being insulting, and I wont waste my time with you because you won’t be willing to listen to reason, or stand corrected…

If you had left simple note, or made your own attempt at contacting me, rather than a public challenge with more false claims, I might have discussed it with you privately…But, I’m not a big fan of bullying, and in my opinion, that is the method you chose to engage in.

But, its over now, I have added your profile to the list of CAF users I choose to ignore, and will not have to deal with your comments for, at least, the next 4 months…

Pray for me, as I pray for you!

 

[Matthew22]

I wouldn’t even call it a conservative priest. There are true Catholic priests who teach true Catholic teaching and there are priests who teach their own, “progressive, modernized version of Catholicism which I would label as liberal. Those are the only options.

 

[jack63]

One of my observations/concerns about the Jesuits comes from their own superior general below:

https://jesuitsmidwest.org/news-detail?TN=NEWS-20190404025747UCSPROVMIDWESTPROV

He says in this article

"Two years ago when I was in visiting a Jesuit province somewhere, there were ID cards for the participants. Some said, “[helpers]”; others said “Jesuit”. I joked and asked: “Are not Jesuits also “[helpers]”?”

Really he has nailed it. On some level there is a structural problem with how the Jesuits interact with laity and the world. Whether you are conservative or liberal this is also something to consider. Their own superior general even says so. Some Jesuits see the world as Jesuit and laity. There are lots of different ways I see the world depending on the day. This isn’t one of them. Sometimes I see one Catholic church with minimal difference between the members. Other days I see the world as Priest/Deacon/laity…in a sense that I really do like and am more comfortable in environments where married Clergy (i.e. Deacons) play a significant role.

So this is perhaps something else to consider…

 

[dochawk]

I’d actually argue that the two spiritualities are the same thing. St Ignatius just described it More systematically.

The same Truth, certainly. But the spiritualities are ways of understanding and approaching Truth, and internalizing it . . . .

However, one of Georgetown JD’s, who also happens to have a PhD in Theology, once replied to my comment, “Are you kidding? Have you ever seen the liquor cabinets of some Jesuits?”

When I was in a Jesuit high school, I noticed a scholastic with a pad of wine labels as a notepad, and asked.

A consultant had told them that if they didn’t change the labels, they’d be off the market in two years (This would be about 1984, as California wine was displacing French at the top). And they’d just printed years worth of labels . . .

About four years later, they sold the vineyards and winery as they would have to run it as a business, rather than a religious task.

But being about eight or nine miles from the novitiate, we used their desert wines, such as Angelica, at Mass . . .

The university also brought out the good stuff for alumni events before passing the hat :crazy_face:

 

[Mi_Rose]

A Jesuit from near us came from a family with a winery. He talked them into getting one of their wines(or maybe more)approved for use as altar wine.

 

[JanetF]

I was initially attracted to the order because of a priest that was at my high school for my freshman and sophomore years.

What about contacting him and reconnecting, from the perspective of an adult and talking to him about what it’s like to be a jesuit? If he’s the one who inspired you, I’d start there.

 

[PapyrusDouay]

The same Truth, certainly. But the spiritualities are ways of understanding and approaching Truth, and internalizing it . . . .

Yup…I still stand by my argument . Poverty is different between them, of course. But that’s actually a fairly minor point in my opinion. When we start getting into prayer, the role of the heart, “God in all things”, I think it becomes clear a lot of Ignatian spirituality has it’s roots in Franciscan spirituality. The biggest difference, I think, is really just how St Ignatius organized/described everything. Which parts do you see as “as different as you can get”?

I apologize, I do realize I am hijacking the thread. Dochawk, you may pm me if you wish. I just find the topic interesting enough to continue discussion, but I don’t want to change topics on the OP.

 

[dochawk]

The biggest difference, I think, is really just how St Ignatius organized/described everything. Which parts do you see as “as different as you can get”?

I think that’s the core: the methodical organization and detail on the one end, and the simple acceptance on the other. The end is the same, but the path is different.

 

[commenter]

I have personally known some Jesuits, and benefitted from their ministries. Some of them are “conservative”, as are some others known from the media.

My suggestion is that if you are conservative, find another religious order that is conservative, whose spirituality is compatible with Jesuits and nourishing to you.

If you join a liberal order, you will be dealing with its liberalism a lot more than you share with its unique spirituality with your brothers.

 

[eirecool]

From my experience. They’re mixture of different personalities in religious orders and can have different religious beliefs, even those who don’t agree with church teaching. Part of being a religious life however is Fraternity and having put up with people you find particularly difficult helps you to grow in holiness. A lot of the saints had fellow brothers/sisters in their own order give them a very difficult time, St John of the cross was imprisoned by his own order, St Therese and St Margaret Mary Alacoque also had a very difficult time as well.

From discerning with different religious orders you come across with different brothers/priests that are either more conservative or liberal. Also it comes without saying that a religious order as big as the Jesuits won’t have everyone be like you describe. In my own experience many different friars/monks/brothers/priests don’t wear their habits/cassocks/clerical clothes all the time or rarely but still are strong in their spirituality. It just varies from person to person, province to province, and house to house. Heck its a reflection of different catholic families with some members more pious and others either lukewarm/fallen away or gone agnostic.

I read during the story of St John Viannny when he was young, a Carthusian Monk without a habit would come and say mass in his family barn. Obviously this is opposite of what Carthusians normally ( I might be getting it wrong im not sure).

I don’t know if your opened to discerning in another province, but the Irish province are fairly strong and do have good Jesuit priests and the British province has as well.

Irish Jesuits

British Jesuits

Also this is a new order that wears cassocks and have many similarities to the Jesuits. Engages in a lot of silent retreats, but its primary ministry tends to be Youth ministry. However it is very devoted the eucharist and Our Lady.

Servant Brothers of the Home of the Mother