Discerning a "liberal" religious community

[Discerner]

What if the entire religious community I’ve been discerning is openly and enthusiastically supporting the “Pro-Choice” candidate this year? I find this very disturbing. I left the community not long ago, and have been trying to decide whether to return. This community already has a reputation for being somewhat liberal in theological matters, but this just goes over the top. Am I just being judgemental? What if God is calling me there anyway? I fear losing my faith in this place.

Are there any religious out there experiencing this in their own communities?

 

[Cloisters]

What if the entire religious community I’ve been discerning is openly and enthusiastically supporting the “Pro-Choice” candidate this year? I find this very disturbing. I left the community not long ago, and have been trying to decide whether to return. This community already has a reputation for being somewhat liberal in theological matters, but this just goes over the top. Am I just being judgemental? What if God is calling me there anyway? I fear losing my faith in this place.

Are there any religious out there experiencing this in their own communities?

Get the heck out of Dodge, is what I say.

This place sounds like it’d be nothing but trouble. If you are still drawn to the charism, then study the founder/foundress and what they taught. The Holy Ghost works on attraction, and could be guiding you to a renewal of the charism.

HTH.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

What if the entire religious community I’ve been discerning is openly and enthusiastically supporting the “Pro-Choice” candidate this year? I find this very disturbing. I left the community not long ago, and have been trying to decide whether to return. This community already has a reputation for being somewhat liberal in theological matters, but this just goes over the top. Am I just being judgmental? What if God is calling me there anyway? I fear losing my faith in this place.

Are there any religious out there experiencing this in their own communities?

I would leave them alone, immediately! I would not want that weighing on my conscience. Places like this usually are not in Full Communion with Rome because of how liberal they are and their views are not in line with the Church. I don’t think you are being judgmental. I think you are being smart in wanting to protect yourself. It’s exactly what I would do! Find a new order where you can surround yourself with people who are in line with the Church. God bless!

 

[Discerner]

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut so far. I think I’ve been feeling some guilt because on a personal level I actually like many in this community and they like me and would really like me to continue. But the more time passed I did sense a bit of a disconnect. This latest issue with the election seems like a symptom of an overall collective mindset there that is utterly different from what I experience around my own diocese. Something’s got to be wrong. As I said, I just don’t get it. .

 

[Lepanto]

Oh man, I wish all of the issues brought up on this board were this black and white.

Why on earth would anyone want to be a member of a bitter, “Catholic” religious congregation that despises the Church?

There are many good, holy communities from which to choose.

Get out of their to save your soul!

 

[Adoro_Te_Devote]

Discerner,

Maybe this will help: I have a dear friend who entered a religious community not too long ago. The advice her Spiritual Director gave her before she went was exactly this: “If it’s a Yes…it’s a Yes. If it’s a No…it’s a No. If it’s an “I don’t know”…it’s a NO!”

Could you be confusing your affinity for the people for affinity for the community? Beware! It’s perfecly fine and even encouraged to love the people of that community, and it’s a grace for you to have come to know and love them. But don’t let that cloud your judgment.

If you have issues with what they are doing now, it won’t get any better over time. Walk away, keep them in your prayers, and thank God that He helped you to see the truth before you made permanent vows.

There are many a woman religious in this country (and world, probably) that is sitting in her wheelchair, praying rosaries for her Sisters while they worship Gaia, and wondering how this had happened and when the internal persecution will stop. You don’t have to be one of them.

God is calling you to pray; not to join. There is a difference.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

What if the entire religious community I’ve been discerning is openly and enthusiastically supporting the “Pro-Choice” candidate this year? I find this very disturbing. I left the community not long ago, and have been trying to decide whether to return. This community already has a reputation for being somewhat liberal in theological matters, but this just goes over the top. Am I just being judgemental? What if God is calling me there anyway? I fear losing my faith in this place.

Are there any religious out there experiencing this in their own communities?

I do not know if we can truly use the terms “liberal” and “conservative” when we speak of theology. Those are political terms.

You are right to call them liberal when you say that they support a pro-choice candidate but can you you truly put that on the community as a whole or is it individuals?

Look to the constitutions and rule.

Also, there are many places in theology where a difference of opinion is an okay thing.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

Discerner,

Maybe this will help: I have a dear friend who entered a religious community not too long ago. The advice her Spiritual Director gave her before she went was exactly this: “If it’s a Yes…it’s a Yes. If it’s a No…it’s a No. If it’s an “I don’t know”…it’s a NO!”

Could you be confusing your affinity for the people for affinity for the community? Beware! It’s perfecly fine and even encouraged to love the people of that community, and it’s a grace for you to have come to know and love them. But don’t let that cloud your judgment.

If you have issues with what they are doing now, it won’t get any better over time. Walk away, keep them in your prayers, and thank God that He helped you to see the truth before you made permanent vows.

There are many a woman religious in this country (and world, probably) that is sitting in her wheelchair, praying rosaries for her Sisters while they worship Gaia, and wondering how this had happened and when the internal persecution will stop. You don’t have to be one of them.

God is calling you to pray; not to join. There is a difference.

AMEN!

 

[Poor_Clare_tobe]

Get the heck out of Dodge, is what I say.

This place sounds like it’d be nothing but trouble. If you are still drawn to the charism, then study the founder/foundress and what they taught. The Holy Ghost works on attraction, and could be guiding you to a renewal of the charism.

HTH.

Blessings,
Cloisters

*I have to agree with what Cloisters [and what many others have said]… *

“This place sounds like it’d be nothing but trouble. If you are still drawn to the charism, then study the founder/foundress and what they taught. The Holy Ghost works on attraction…”…Why not find a community with the charism you feel drawn to… that is in line with Church teachings? We have had much direct counsel on what should lead us in our voting priorities… if this community chooses to be unfaithful in this??? Can you expect them to be faithful in other things??? No I would not consider returning… take your talents and vocation and find a community that will lead you to holiness… Blessings Of Peace and All Good!

 

[simon_op]

It is really so simple: If they support someone who supports killing, there is no way for them to call themselves Christians, and especially not religoius. If you are looking for a way to follow God, that’s wrong direction! Clear faith, clear choices!
God bless!

 

[Discerner]

I do not know if we can truly use the terms “liberal” and “conservative” when we speak of theology. Those are political terms.

You are right to call them liberal when you say that they support a pro-choice candidate but can you you truly put that on the community as a whole or is it individuals?

Look to the constitutions and rule.

Also, there are many places in theology where a difference of opinion is an okay thing.

Thank you for making that distinction about terminology. I’m having trouble putting into words what I mean when I say theologically liberal. For example, one of the members, who is highly respected in academic circles as a theologian has collaborted with two other theologians that have each been publically disciplined by the heirarchy for religious pluralism. This priest is extremely kind and we got along great, but should I be worried when I’m given two of his books to study for my coursework?

Another example is a rationalistic tendency in Scripture interpretation. I remember in a homily one priest saying that when Jesus expelled the demons from the possessed man into the herd of swine, the man probably was suffering from something like autism. They also have a tendency to see angels and demons more as symbols or images of evil than actual beings active in our lives. Those are just a couple of examples.

As far as the election, if not the entire community than the vast majority are on the same side. There might be one or two who are afraid to speak up.

Byzcath, is it possible I’m being overly critical? Are these theological views not as dangerous as I feel they are? That’s why I wanted to get some feedback. I was wondering if I could still be called there, maybe God is wanting new people there who have a different view. But I just get worried it could be too risky and I might eventually slip into errors during formation. Am I over-reacting or not sufficiently trusting God? Could this be paranoia on my part?

 

[Discerner]

Thank you for making that distinction about terminology. I’m having trouble putting into words what I mean when I say theologically liberal. For example, one of the members, who is highly respected in academic circles as a theologian has co-authored books with two other theologians that have each been publically disciplined by the heirarchy for religious pluralism. This priest is extremely kind and we got along great, but should I be worried when I’m given two of his books to study for my coursework?

Another example is a tendency toward rationalism in Scripture interpretation. I remember in a homily one priest saying that when Jesus expelled the demons from the possessed man into the herd of swine, the man probably was suffering from something like autism. They tend to see angels and demons more as symbols or images of evil than actual beings active in our lives. Those are just a couple of examples.

As far as the election, if not the entire community than the vast majority are on the same side. There might be one or two who are afraid to speak up.

Byzcath, is it possible I’m being overly critical? Are these theological views not as dangerous as I feel they are? That’s why I wanted to get some feedback. I notice you are in formation yourself. I was wondering if I could still be called there, maybe God is wanting new people there who have opposing views. But I just get worried it could be too risky and I might eventually slip into errors during formation. Am I over-reacting or not sufficiently trusting God? Could this be paranoia on my part?

 

[Discerner]

I do not know if we can truly use the terms “liberal” and “conservative” when we speak of theology. Those are political terms.

You are right to call them liberal when you say that they support a pro-choice candidate but can you you truly put that on the community as a whole or is it individuals?

Look to the constitutions and rule.

Also, there are many places in theology where a difference of opinion is an okay thing.

---

Thank you for making that distinction about terminology. I’m having trouble putting into words what I mean when I say theologically liberal. For example, one of the members, who is highly respected in academic circles as a theologian has co-authored books with two other theologians that have each been publically disciplined by the heirarchy for religious pluralism. This priest is extremely kind and we got along great, but should I be worried when I’m given two of his books to study for my coursework?

Another example is a tendency toward rationalism in Scripture interpretation. I remember in a homily one priest saying that when Jesus expelled the demons from the possessed man into the herd of swine, the man probably was suffering from something like autism. They tend to see angels and demons more as symbols or images of evil than actual beings active in our lives. Those are just a couple of examples.

As far as the election, if not the entire community than the vast majority are on the same side. There might be one or two who are afraid to speak up.

Byzcath, is it possible I’m being overly critical? Are these theological views not as dangerous as I feel they are? That’s why I wanted to get some feedback. I notice you are in formation yourself. I was wondering if I could still be called there, maybe God is wanting new people there who have opposing views. But I just get worried it could be too risky and I might eventually slip into errors during formation. Am I over-reacting or not sufficiently trusting God? Could this be paranoia on my part?

 

[Adoro_Te_Devote]

---

Thank you for making that distinction about terminology. I’m having trouble putting into words what I mean when I say theologically liberal. For example, one of the members, who is highly respected in academic circles as a theologian has co-authored books with two other theologians that have each been publically disciplined by the heirarchy for religious pluralism. This priest is extremely kind and we got along great, but should I be worried when I’m given two of his books to study for my coursework?

Another example is a tendency toward rationalism in Scripture interpretation. I remember in a homily one priest saying that when Jesus expelled the demons from the possessed man into the herd of swine, the man probably was suffering from something like autism. They tend to see angels and demons more as symbols or images of evil than actual beings active in our lives. Those are just a couple of examples.

As far as the election, if not the entire community than the vast majority are on the same side. There might be one or two who are afraid to speak up.

Byzcath, is it possible I’m being overly critical? Are these theological views not as dangerous as I feel they are? That’s why I wanted to get some feedback. I notice you are in formation yourself. I was wondering if I could still be called there, maybe God is wanting new people there who have opposing views. But I just get worried it could be too risky and I might eventually slip into errors during formation. Am I over-reacting or not sufficiently trusting God? Could this be paranoia on my part?

Wow…it’s even worse than I would have thought.

If those who are supposed to be guiding you have been disciplined by the Superiors of the Church…that’s a HUGE DEAL!

No, you are NOT being paranoid. It seems you are actually trying to make excuses for their disobedience, and this is the anti-virtue not just of complacence, but something worse.

Walk away. May I make a recommendation? You seem to be decently versed in theology as you are recognizing their errors. Take some time and read St.Catherine of Siena, “Dialogues”, a book that is readily available.

Fair warning…that book is like taking a scalpel to your soul, but only because you are getting God’s view of life, of dissent, of holiness, and the Bridge to holiness.

If you are truly seeking answers and not acquiescence, read it. If you are looking for a book that will affirm your propensity to complacency and apathy…look to Greely.

The lines could not be more firmly drawn. Love the people, pray for them…and walk away. You have truly already answered your own questions. You can’t save this community and it’s not your job; it is the job of Christ. Give it to Him, walk away, and find where YOU will be nurtured and find holiness…not a a place where you think you have to fix others.

 

[Discerner]

I appreciate all the responses. According to most of you this seems to be a pretty obvious choice, but let me just say that another reason I’m having trouble is that my intentions when I left weren’t all that noble and I’ve almost been searching for good reasons not to go back so I can discern elsewhere. Now that I might have found one, it’s not exactly the relief I was expecting.

I’m wondering if this quote applies to me in this situation:

“Others wish to serve God, but only in a certain post, in a certain place, with certain companions, and under certain circumstances… such people are not free in spirit but are slaves of self-love” -St. Alphonsus Ligouri

 

[Discerner]

Wow…it’s even worse than I would have thought.

If those who are supposed to be guiding you have been disciplined by the Superiors of the Church…that’s a HUGE DEAL!

No, you are NOT being paranoid. It seems you are actually trying to make excuses for their disobedience, and this is the anti-virtue not just of complacence, but something worse.

Walk away. May I make a recommendation? You seem to be decently versed in theology as you are recognizing their errors. Take some time and read St.Catherine of Siena, “Dialogues”, a book that is readily available.

Fair warning…that book is like taking a scalpel to your soul, but only because you are getting God’s view of life, of dissent, of holiness, and the Bridge to holiness.

If you are truly seeking answers and not acquiescence, read it. If you are looking for a book that will affirm your propensity to complacency and apathy…look to Greely.

The lines could not be more firmly drawn. Love the people, pray for them…and walk away. You have truly already answered your own questions. You can’t save this community and it’s not your job; it is the job of Christ. Give it to Him, walk away, and find where YOU will be nurtured and find holiness…not a a place where you think you have to fix others.

Thanks for the candid and firm response. I need to hear this stuff. One correction though: the particular member of the community was not the one disciplined, just his colleagues for their own separate works, not the ones he worked on. I really can’t judge his works because I didn’t get all that far into them.

But anyway, yes I will read St. Catherine. Thanks for all your thoughts. I will indeed continue to love and pray for them no matter what.

 

[Lepanto]

Walk away.

Dear Discerner,

Part of the discernment process is knowing when to walk away.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

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Thank you for making that distinction about terminology. I’m having trouble putting into words what I mean when I say theologically liberal. For example, one of the members, who is highly respected in academic circles as a theologian has co-authored books with two other theologians that have each been publically disciplined by the heirarchy for religious pluralism. This priest is extremely kind and we got along great, but should I be worried when I’m given two of his books to study for my coursework?

Okay, this is something that would concern me. While some in religious communities might hold views that are heterodox they are usually not the view of the whole religious community. That your specific community gives these views weight by including them in course work is a cause for concern. Is it just your province of the religious group or are these books given to all in the community?

Another example is a tendency toward rationalism in Scripture interpretation. I remember in a homily one priest saying that when Jesus expelled the demons from the possessed man into the herd of swine, the man probably was suffering from something like autism. They tend to see angels and demons more as symbols or images of evil than actual beings active in our lives. Those are just a couple of examples.

Again, one must look to see if this is just a case of individual opinions or something the religious community believes as a whole.

As far as the election, if not the entire community than the vast majority are on the same side. There might be one or two who are afraid to speak up.

One must be careful when attributing something to the community as a whole. We must remember that the Church in America does not fully represent the worldwide Church.

Byzcath, is it possible I’m being overly critical? Are these theological views not as dangerous as I feel they are? That’s why I wanted to get some feedback. I notice you are in formation yourself. I was wondering if I could still be called there, maybe God is wanting new people there who have opposing views. But I just get worried it could be too risky and I might eventually slip into errors during formation. Am I over-reacting or not sufficiently trusting God? Could this be paranoia on my part?

Yes you could be overly critical but it does seem that there might be some substance. In the end this is something that you must discern for yourself.

If you want you can send me an email and we can talk privately. I do not wish to share my experiences here in public.

 

[Discerner]

Yes you could be overly critical but it does seem that there might be some substance. In the end this is something that you must discern for yourself.

If you want you can send me an email and we can talk privately. I do not wish to share my experiences here in public.

I’ll do that, and thank you for your insight.

 

[Discerner]

If you want you can send me an email and we can talk privately. I do not wish to share my experiences here in public.

Having trouble figuring out how to email you Byzcath.