It’s interesting that you should begin this thread today, Brother David, because I was considering something similar over the last few days (that Carmelite telepathy must be working overtime). I have concerns about the amount and intricacy of information that people sometimes seek here at the forum, and also worry that the hoped-for level of expertise on the part of respondents may be lacking on occasion.
) but I actually do** want to help. I’m wondering if we need some more stickies here to address these basic questions and explain why your advice regarding direction is so important? Or whether extending this thread to explain the benefits of spiritual direction more generally, or some thoughts on the nature of discernment, might be useful? I think CAF is a good resource in these matters, and many people here have very useful information to give, but I’m concerned about the unrealistic expectations that some people might have in coming here, and the way in which respondents (including me) can in all good faith mislead them with their answers.Brother Mike,It’s interesting that you should begin this thread today, Brother David, because I was considering something similar over the last few days (that Carmelite telepathy must be working overtime). I have concerns about the amount and intricacy of information that people sometimes seek here at the forum, and also worry that the hoped-for level of expertise on the part of respondents may be lacking on occasion.
For what it’s worth, I don’t claim to be an expert on vocations: I’m just someone who has experienced and responded to a call to religious life, but I would be very hesitant in answering some of the questions asked here at CAF because they require a knowledge of the person asking that I simply don’t have.
As we’ve remarked before, the way in which particular religious communites and institutes are recommended and/or condemned here also troubles me, because those kinds of value judgements assume a level of experience and discrimination that I really don’t think many people have - even some time spent with a particular community isn’t definitive, and anything less than that is simply insufficient for meaningful comment. And when the questions asked are at the level of ‘does anyone know of enclosed communities in California?’ - well, I kind of think that the person asking should spend a few minutes with Google finding the answers for themselves. The discernment process will require much greater efforts from people than that before it’s through, so get to work.
No doubt I’m coming across as very critical and unhelpful here (sorry
Hope I’m not out of line or simply expounding upon difficulties that aren’t there. I think this is an important matter and worth some thought.
Great advice! I agree that it’s not a good idea to start and depend a lot on the anonymous advice offered here or online in general. There are a lot of good things about it, like sharing information, etc. meeting others discerning. But there’s the potential for a lot of problems and confusion … like for one thing, comparing yourself with others when everyone’s vocation/story is so totally unique in God’s mysterious plans. And also, wasting a lot of time online, when the time could be used for prayer.
Brother David and I belong to (different provinces of) the Order of Carmelites of the Ancient Observance (O. Carm). Although he lives in the US and I live in the UK, we both seem to have had similar ideas at the same time. There isn’t a known or recognised telepathy amongst religious from the same charism, but who knows?
I have to disagree…sometimes one runs into a close minded spiritual director whereas online you can meet others that are also discerning and share ideas with one another. Online vocational discernment certainly helped me out a lot and now i’m on my way to priesthood (God willingly)
I tend to agree. I do not think there is anything wrong with posting on this forum and the advice here can be quite helpful, interesting and encouraging. It is not a substitute for the process of spiritually working through things with a good spiritual director.
What about those who are unable to find a good spiritual director? I have had one in the past, but he was not trained and I was not learning anything, so I ended it. I have been searching for at least a year since and no one is available in my diocese. I’ve called the vocation office, spoken to my parish priest, spoken to priests at other Churches, but no one can give me direction. I keep getting the name of a Sister in our diocese who is the delegate for religious, but she is retired is never available to take phone calls or answer email because she is ill a lot. Unfortunately, we only have one order of habited religious in our diocese and my priest told me not to deal with them as he and I both know of some problems within the order that I would rather not deal with. I don’t know what to do…
You raise a very significant problem, DoM, to which there is no obvious answer. But I still think it’s worth saying that direction is the best first option that should be pursued by people in discernment, and saying this - or even saying it loudly, as Brother David and I have done on this thread - is not to imply it’s easy or even possible, just that it’s the preferred path to take.
Perhaps you might consider direction from someone belonging to a non-habited institute? As we’ve discussed on these forums many times, not all religious are mandated or permitted to wear habits (canon law implies otherwise but actually refers the matter to the proper law of each institute). In and of itself religious garb does not grant particular skills in direction, nor does it actually tell you much about the wearer’s mindset, contrary to popular belief - some of the most conservative religious I know don’t wear the habit, and some of the habited religious I’ve met are actually very liberal in their ecclesiology and practice. You might be missing out on someone who’s very skilled but for sound reasons doesn’t wear a habit.
Good spiritual directors can be hard to find. It can be even harder for a person to find one that works well for them. It took eight years for me to find the right one for me.
definitely talk to your parish priest about it. Then see if you can talk to the vocation director of your diocese. maybe between the two of them they can come up with a siritual director for you. Another thing that I myself found helpful is a weekend silent retreat. just my ideas.
thanks for that , i really mean it
How do I find one?
The best options are -