Discerning any Vocation in general

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I totally get where you’re coming from regarding backyard mission work. I feel the same, that there’s plenty to do. It just seems you haven’t found the clarity you seek doing the things you’ve been doing. So my suggestion would be to try something different.

Regarding bills, well, they’ll be there when you get back. But consider this, before Jesus began his ministry, he had a desert experience. He got out of town. The desert isn’t a place to cut n run, its a place to find yourself. If you want to do it locally, then do 40 days in a monastery with a spiritual director, or go to the Indian missions. Whatever does it for ya. Do whatever it takes.

As for me. I went to seminary three years, and just came to realization that I’d die a slow death as a diocesan. So I went back into the Army. I’m a Cavalry Scout. I’m working with a vocation director now, and my spiritual director, to go to the African Sheol with the Fransallians to participating in their F.O.S.T.E.R program. The Sheol is a pretty “undefined” place, but mostly, its a subsaharan region, where the jungles of central Africa meet the deserts if northern Africa.

In this place, Central Africa is predominantly Catholic, except in Nigeria. The nomadic Muslims inhabit the deserts to the north. There are always clashes. Everyday, there is the practice of conversion by the sword. Wives are raped, husbands are killed, and children kidnapped into slavery and combat. The orphans there just ain’t the same as the orphans here. It ain’t even close. We’re not talking about painting walls (no offense), we’re digging wells for potable drinking water cuz it doesn’t exist when you’re 10 years old and your village was burned down and you’re walking through wilderness with other 10 year old trying to figure out which way is Uganda or Chad or Kenya…then maybe u finally get there, and there’s 209 other kids and not enough fish or bread for even them. But you give it a chance anyway, cuz where u gonna go? You just crossed a hundred miles and survived rebels, lions, hyenas, starvation, sickness, intense desert and tropical heat both, and u don’t even have shoes or a hat or a blanket. But half the nonprofits out there are offering “experimental” vaccines, which may or may not kill you, but you wouldn’t know the difference, you’re half-dead already cuz you feel like your soul was stolen when you saw them slaughter your dad and rape your mother and sister, that and you’re belly is swoll from the parasites inside it from the non-drinking water. But hey, America ain’t no better you think, cuz they have poor people too. So there you are looking for a reason to live, and the local U.N. outfit is giving you condoms, cuz you’re 10 remember, and someone from a warring tribe recognizes you, and declares a vendetta cuz some cousin of yours thrice-removed killed his third cousin when you were being run down by Muslims on horseback.

I’m not trying to be a smart-ellick with you. I’m just throwing some stuff out there.

But I tell ya what…I don’t know much about anyone else’s motives, I’m going there to do what I need to do. I know what my college loan was worth, and it ain’t paid off. But I ain’t trying to make a buck, I’m just looking for salvation. I have no other desire in life but to be a saint. Jesus said, “pick up your cross”, and he said “carry nothing”.

So I found a few other people who said “that ain’t so bad”, maybe I could do that too. So there’s 7 of us, more or less, who want to do this. We want to make our lives a “donation”, we’re gonna go and give it all away, and if the promise of Christ is true, that those who give their lives away to Christ, will find life - life abundant!

And i’ll add this, it’d be good to have a carpenter with us. Three are seminarians, three are soldiers. I’ve been both, and I’m going as both. One is a poet.

But I don’t know how to swing a hammer as well as I can swing a machete, that’s what learned as a scout. I can navigate deserts, jungles, urban terrain. I can hump 50 miles in two days. But my hand-trade is cooking. I used to manage a restaurant before seminary. Was a cook for a long time. I can feed 1,000 people a day. And how do I relate to these kids? I was an orphan until I was 4. I’ve served over seas. These are orphans of war and they need food, water, and shelter. And they need hope. Jesus gives us all hope. If I lose myself for these, the most vulnerable, that they can have life, well, maybe that’s a life worth living. Maybe you could build a kitchen? Show us how to dig a well? Teach us how to turn clay into bricks?

Joseph was a carpenter too.

Someone asked me what I’m doing?

I described it like this:
I’m making an oblation to Saint Joseph, the Foster Father of the Persecuted Christ, and he had a great devotion to the Immaculate Conception, and served both Jesus and Mary as a Carpenter.

You wanna try something different? I’m looking for someone just like you. You’re needed.

I figure these kids might be getting bread and fish, but I’m feeding both their souls and my own this way. I hope its what Jesus wants.

Grace and Peace to you brother

“Das Erlebnis - The raw, brute, lived, concrete experience”
 
An amazing and moving story and thank you very much for sharing. Well written too, it really held me.
God bless you and your companions and build on the Graces He has already granted you. God grant you increase. A very very special vocation and gift to you all and to us all, The Universal Church. I am sure such love and such generosity is absolutely what Jesus wants - and that He will return “one hundredfold”.
 
I don’t really know what you mean by a “Spiritual block.” Ive been Catholic all my life, and I’ve always taken my faith seriously. More so as of lately, but still…ive always been “into” my faith in one way or another. And i love God and Jesus like any good Catholic ought to. And i don’t know if this sounds bad…but i don’t have this burning desire to spend my whole life with Him as a Brother or Priest. Yes, i love Him and want to do everything i can to do His will…but i don’t have this “Passionate and burning love” as so many people describe of themselves. I guess what I’m saying is i would rather be married to a Woman my whole life than be married to the Church…I feel like i would make a mediocre monk if i became one. I know an few Brothers and the one underlying thing about them is their passionate love for God and their passion to serve Jesus and serve the poor/needy/etc. I know we’re all called to serve the poor and those in need in some fashion…but i dont feel as if its my greatest lifelong calling either.

BTW, i know that the priesthood is not for me. If anything, i would be looking at Brotherhood. I am not a fit for the duties and responsibilities of a priest. And ive come to this conclusion through much prayer, trust me 😛

As far as my “gifts” I guess i can describe myself as being outgoing, yet reserved at the same time. Many people say how “humble” i am (though i dont want to toot my own horn…) I have the ability to make people feel comfortable around me, even if im feeling very awkward and definitely NOT comfortable 😛 People have always said im easy to talk to (if im in a good mood…) and they dont feel threatened by me at all. Children are naturally drawn to me for some reason 😛 There could be a room full of adults to entertain them, and many of them will flock to me to play games with them. But i love kids (I have 25 nieces and nephews) so its as much of a joy to me as it is to them.

As far as any trades; I’ve been a carpenter for 6+ years up until recently. Work has slowed down. Its typical of the winter season anyway. And im hoping to get a job doing woodworking and furniture building if possible. Ive been working on a resume and i plan on sending it out to a few shops around my area. I have student loans to pay off, and the bills are starting to lag behind…so my part time job at the Post Office isnt cutting it.

I sometimes try pretending to “want”, or make myself want to be “married” to Christ and it doesnt bring me that sense of Joy that so many people describe. Or even a sense of peace. I just feel like one would feel when they have to do a very much undesirable task. “I don’t really like it, but I guess I’ll do it” kind of mentality. Now its possible that i must force myself to change that mentality, but i also dont want to force a vocation just to say ive become a monk and im serving God. Because then i wont be happy.

They say “Grace Follows Nature” And my nature is to be outdoors and physically active. Anything that breaks a sweat. Its also my nature, like i mentioned, to be good with kids. Everyone who sees me handle a baby or play with a toddler says im a natural and i would be a good dad. Those who know me really well have never mentioned anything about how i would make a good priest or brother, unless i mention the thought to them and they go “Yeah…i guess i could see that, maybe.” The only people who have ever asked me to consider it have been my diocese vocations directors (the present one and the past one who has since become a monsignor). And i gotta be honest…it IS/WAS there job to ask young men about it. Oh and a nun after Mass once told me i look like i should be a priest because “Im tall and have a loud voice. And i have a commanding look about me” Many of my brothers all got the same comments and they are all married.

So anyway, im still praying about it, but i havent been feeling compelled to look further into any certain order. Im going to join in on a discernment group meeting in two weeks, because the vocations director invited me. It cant hurt, i tell myself.

Oh and i dont think im called to mission work. I would do it for the experience, if i had the money…but ive traveled away from my home state before and i always feel a strong pull back. I love New England and im sure this is where im meant to live. My 5000 mile road-trip confirmed that very strongly for me.
Sirach614,

It doesn’t sound like a vocation to me because the it sounds to me like the desire is missing. Missing desire can be a sign to you that you might be choosing it because you think you should or something like that. Not a good reason. This appears to be somewhat common among young catholics who are raised with a sense of obligation but not a vocation to the priesthood, but rather a vocation to marriage and family life. It can take some patience to work through and identify one way or the other.

That said, I’d give it some time and enjoy your 24 year old life. I could be wrong, only you will eventually know for sure. Date a bit, make ample time for prayer, and see if it doesn’t resolve one way or the other into something that seems more “right.”
 
@DasErlibnis. If this was Facebook, i would “like” your post 😉 And it sounds like what you are about to undertake is an awesome thing. One that anyone would come out all the better for and more confident in what their calling is. And i would be inclined to join something like that if i thought of it as being a reasonable thing for me to do at this point in my life. However, it is not. I’m not at the point that i could even be ready to join in on a mission trip such as that. Would i discover my true calling by going with your group and working in the African Sheol? I would put money on it. But there is no reason for me to believe that its what God is calling me to do right now at this point in my life. Not “never” perhaps…just not now.

Like i mentioned a few times…I drove from Maine to Colorado and back to Maine again alone in my 4X4 pickup over the summer. I did this because i needed to be alone with myself and with God as my passenger. I was suffocating staying where i was in Maine. I thought i hated the place and wanted to get as far from it as i could. I did a lot of praying and “soul searching” while i was out on the road for 14 days. The whole trip was 5200 miles, and broken up into 3 days up took a total of 40 hours or so just to get to Colorado. And took slightly longer on the way back…maybe like 45 hours. I was alone in silence for a better part of the entire drive, but of course there was the exception of staying overnight at friends/relitives homes along the way. I hardly ever had the radio on because i just wanted to be able to clear my mind and not have so much noice, especially after having recently ended a troubled dating relationship with the girl i mentioned in my first post. Long story short…while i was out in Colorado, exploring the Rockies and driving endless miles of flat, cornfield surrounded highways…i gradually became sure that where i belong is right where i am now. In Maine, just working and making a small living. I knew that while it was a great place to visit, it wasn’t where i belonged. How did i know that? I just did. I cant explain it. all i know was that as glad and psyched as i was to be out there on that great adventure…i could not wait to be back home and see my family. I felt lonely out there, despite the fact that i passed a gazillion cars on the journey.

Though it wasn’t 40 days in a monastery or a desert, those 80-85 hours of driving (Just to get there, mind you. Not counting the 15 or so hours of touring i did in Colorado) was the most beneficial time i have ever spent completely alone. It cured me of the fear of being alone, and taught me how to pray. I wont go into boring detail, but there were instances that i just knew God was with me…because the things that happened along the way were no accidents just plain chance. It really was an amazing spiritual experience. The mistake i did make, however, was that upon getting back, i got back together with my ex girlfriend like i mentioned and things started to slide again.

Im going to see if i can make a weekend retreat anyway at a monastary close to my area. and i figure if i feel peaceful there but still have a yearning for something else, then it’s not for me. Depending on what i might experience during the weekend, i will decide to continue discerning, or to put it on hold for the time being and just live life for a little while longer. To be honest, i dont even know what its like to be in a healthy dating relationship anyway. and i would at least like to experience that before i make a good judgement call regarding if marriage is or is not for me. I did an overnight silent retreat at a maronite monastery last year, but the experience i had was as such; as peaceful and restful as it was, i was eager to return home to my family and friends. It was good to get away and pray, but it didnt seem like it was calling me to stay.
 
And @iloveangels:

I tend to agree with your point of view…i do lack in many ways the desire to enter into religious life any time soon. Not to say the desire will never come, because perhaps it might later on down the road. But i dont think its where im being led at this time. There is a little bit of self-induced pressure as well to consider religous life. For one, im number 7 of nine kids, and all my older siblings including my younger sister are married…so sometimes people say “Come on…with a family that big, there’s got to be at least ONE religious vocation in there” and since its just my youngest brother and i that are still single, and he is dating a girl who he feels he *may * be called to marry, the pressure does rest on me to choose marriage or the greater calling of priesthood or religious life. But its not pressure imposed by my parents, that is for sure. My father considered becoming a Dominican when he was 26-27 years old, but then he met my mother and was married by 28. I still have 4 more years ahead of me before im 28…so why rush it, right?

Also, there is the pressure from vocations posters that say things to the effect of “God wants YOU to be a priest” and it can make people confused or distracted if they are trying to discern the Will of God. And of course theres is the vocation director who comes to my church every now and then and asks all young men to stop and consider a calling to religious life or priesthood. And ive considered it now for close to 4 months and it doesnt seem to be getting any clearer nor does a desire seem to be growing. Again, im not closing off the possibility of it, but for now im not so sure its the path i should keep following…just not really sure.

So anyway 😛

God bless you all!
 
And @iloveangels:

I tend to agree with your point of view…i do lack in many ways the desire to enter into religious life any time soon. Not to say the desire will never come, because perhaps it might later on down the road. But i dont think its where im being led at this time. There is a little bit of self-induced pressure as well to consider religous life. For one, im number 7 of nine kids, and all my older siblings including my younger sister are married…so sometimes people say “Come on…with a family that big, there’s got to be at least ONE religious vocation in there” and since its just my youngest brother and i that are still single, and he is dating a girl who he feels he *may * be called to marry, the pressure does rest on me to choose marriage or the greater calling of priesthood or religious life. But its not pressure imposed by my parents, that is for sure. My father considered becoming a Dominican when he was 26-27 years old, but then he met my mother and was married by 28. I still have 4 more years ahead of me before im 28…so why rush it, right?

Also, there is the pressure from vocations posters that say things to the effect of “God wants YOU to be a priest” and it can make people confused or distracted if they are trying to discern the Will of God. And of course theres is the vocation director who comes to my church every now and then and asks all young men to stop and consider a calling to religious life or priesthood. And ive considered it now for close to 4 months and it doesnt seem to be getting any clearer nor does a desire seem to be growing. Again, im not closing off the possibility of it, but for now im not so sure its the path i should keep following…just not really sure.

So anyway 😛

God bless you all!
You’re right. No rush. Give it some time and space to resolve into one choice or the other. Don’t let yourself be pressured by people around you. When it’s right, either way you go, you’ll know.
 
@DasErlibnis. If this was Facebook, i would “like” your post 😉 And it sounds like what you are about to undertake is an awesome thing. One that anyone would come out all the better for and more confident in what their calling is. And i would be inclined to join something like that if i thought of it as being a reasonable thing for me to do at this point in my life. However, it is not. I’m not at the point that i could even be ready to join in on a mission trip such as that. Would i discover my true calling by going with your group and working in the African Sheol? I would put money on it. But there is no reason for me to believe that its what God is calling me to do right now at this point in my life. Not “never” perhaps…just not now. .
I’ll tell ya this much…the call doesn’t go away. It nags…I know, I spent the year before seminary trying to do everything possible not to go, to convince God he was wrong about me. All I wanted was a family. Wife, kids, and a horse and dog, maybe a cat. That was 2005. The call does not go away, you can even drink it away or anything else (not saying you’re trying that).
 
But who says I have a call to the Priesthood? I said i have been thinking and praying about* if* Im called to it. And i’ve even nearly determined that its not even Priesthood, especially diocesan, but more likely religious life as a Brother. The times i most think about Religious Life (Such as going away to live in a monastery or being a Fransiscan Friar in the city, or a hermit, or similar) is when im feeling tired, worn out, anxious, worried, or afraid. I feel as if i’ve used it too often as a means of escape, if you will…but i could be wrong too. The underlying feeling is that of running away of what im afraid of… AKA, Girls 😛 heavy responsibilities, stress, the world, family problems, and relationship problems. People have told me “You must be sure you’re running TO Jesus, and not AWAY from something else.” Honestly, often I’m afraid to be married, even though i would like to have kids. But is not Religious life or Priesthood in many ways the same as Marriage?? minus kids of course.

I often read that Religious life does have its tough struggles, and often times they can be more difficult than marriage struggles, especially if you’re not psychologically prepared to cope with them. And Im not saying i want to be married because its easier, since i certainly know its not…but how can i know if i am or am not meant for it, if i’m more afraid of marriage than i am afraid of becoming a priest or brother? Priesthood is a greater, bigger, more supernatural calling than marriage, I’m aware…and often times i think as if it will be easier than marriage and will serve to make me more holy. So that’s one reason i feel trapped and think its my only option sometimes. Shouldn’t a guy first be psychologically prepared for marriage to a woman before thinking he can become a Priest and be married to the Church, while being celibate, and generally living alone most of his life? I’m not afraid of being alone, i spend most of my time alone anyway. Im not even afraid of never having kids, because i often wonder how on earth a parent can do it. And i’m well aware (From having 24 nieces and nephews and TWO more on the way 😃 ) that children are a major handful and can be very hard to raise a lot of the time. I just think that i ought to face the fear of marriage and commitment and defeat it so i can firmly discern one way or another. Because my last relationship left little room for proper discernment for both of us…and honestly left me far more afraid of commitment than i was going into the relationship. And my ex girlfriend will claim she had nothing to do with that and i should just “get over it”. And she may be right…i just don’t know 😛
 
Dear Sirach,

Happy New Year!

I think that iloveangels had some great advice. Allow me to say much the same thing, far less succinctly. (I am somewhat of a rambler… ;))

First of all, it seems to me that the clearest statements I hear from you do not point towards a vocation. For instance, in one of your early posts, you said, “I guess what I’m saying is i would rather be married to a Woman my whole life than be married to the Church.” I mean, you have negative thoughts in both directions – fear of responsibility re: marriage, and lack of passion re: religious life – so I think it is important to ask where your positive thoughts are oriented. They are somewhat attenuated as far as I can tell, but your sense that you’d rather be married to a woman than to the Church seems to me to speak volumes.

Secondly, it seems like one of your most positive recent experiences was the roadtrip to Colorado. You said that on that trip, you really felt like you knew how to pray, you really felt close to God, etc. Those positive moments are the ones you should really pay attention to, I think. What was the fruit of that trip, the longing that accompanied that prayer? I think you said that it was a sense that you are called to work a good, modest job, and a sense that the vocational impulse had disappeared…right? (Maybe I am misinterpreting some of your posts.) This disappearance of thoughts about religious life led you back to your ex-girlfriend. Ok, granted, that was a difficult and perhaps not healthy relationship, but the gravitation towards a relationship, in general, after such a positive “retreat” might be telling, right?

Thirdly, you described your experience of Adoration, when the “sign” you were waiting for did not come. You wrote: “Again…nothing. And im not gonna lie…im about ready to give up on this and just ask this girl out. Because im not getting any sort of sign on what to do.” I wonder if that feeling that you are ready to go ask the girl out is maybe as close to a sign as you could get? If that is what you feel you really want to do when everything else comes up empty, maybe you should do it…?

The last thing I would ever presume to do is give you advice. I don’t even know you! So please understand, I’m not saying “I think you should go and ask this girl out.” But these are things I’ve noticed in your posts. Perhaps you agree, perhaps you don’t. All I’m saying is that whether you agree or not might have something interesting to say.

A few last points:
  1. What your brother said could be a good point: if you ask this girl out, it wouldn’t mean diving into a serious relationship. Just going on a date. No harm, no foul.
  2. You said that you used to be more easy-going, and that perhaps some of your stress comes from having been in a rough relationship. Having been in a rough relationship myself once, and then having been in a relationship with an absolutely wonderful young lady who was a lot better suited to me, I can say that “healing” from painful past relationships is possible. I’m not saying you should date this new girl just to get the old one off your mind or to deal with your problems or anything. I’m just saying that if you ever meet the right woman, whoever she may be, and if God is calling you to marriage, then it will feel right eventually, and what seem like burdens now (child-rearing, etc.) will seem exciting and joyful with the right person.
  3. Sorry to keep quoting you (haha), but I find much of what you say very interesting. You wrote: “Priesthood is a greater, bigger, more supernatural calling than marriage.” I felt this way too once while discerning between my girlfriend and religious life. I remember this one time standing in the grocery store with my girlfriend buying laundry detergent with her and thinking, “This is so mundane…what am I doing? I should be out there saving souls or embarking on some spiritual adventure!” A few months later I found myself grocery shopping with some classmates from my religious community and thinking, “Wait a second…Jesuits need to shop for laundry detergent, too??? THAT wasn’t in the vocations pamphlet!!!” In other words, religious life can be just as mundane as marriage. The question is, whom do you want to accompany you in your mundane (and your exalted) moments? A woman with whom you share an exclusive, holy love? Or a community of men who have chosen celibacy for the Kingdom?
Anyway, sorry to ramble. I recognize a lot of your questions as questions that I also ask myself, and you are very open about your journey, so I feel I can be open, too. Thank you for that openness. I am surprised you wrote at one point that you have difficulties taking advice or asking for help, because you seem very open on this forum. Maybe it would be good to have a spiritual director…maybe even a nun (given your heavily male background)? Of course, this is a case of “physician, heal thyself.” I’ve gone several months without a spiritual director, myself. I really need to get on that!

Peace to you,
+AMDG+
 
tuviskazinai, thank you for your reply 🙂 I tend to ramble a lot too, so your post was right up my alley as far as the number of words go 😉

Well to give an update if anyone is interested…I did ask the girl out and she declined my offer. And to be honest, i was sort of expecting her to say no, and almost hoping she would say no. I was terribly nervous and anxious all day until i recieved her reply back. It was quite pathetic really 😛 Im definitely not ready for another relationship, especially if it went anything like my last one. If i had a repeat relationship like that…it just might officially drive me insane, if im not already. I just think it blows that quite possibly the last chance i will have ever have/had to court a girl turned out a whopping failure with her royally pissed off at me and her entire family and mother angry with me as well. But i’ll live…people have bigger problems than that and i have no right to complain.

so tomorrow i’m meeting up with an older Hermit Monk friend of mine. He’s not really a legit hermit in the strict sense of the word, as he does get out a lot and is often posting on Facebook and going to local retreats 😛 But he is a Fransiscan Monk, and he lives alone, and he spends a majority of his day in Adoration and praying. We’re going to talk over dinner about Religious life and i’m going to bounce some things off of him to possibly get a better understanding of what’s going on in my mind and heart. He’s a professional counsilor too, so he knows how to ask the right questions. He actually councils college students, mainly women, with eating disorders and other psychological illnesses.
 
Dear Sirach,
Thanks for keeping us up to date! I am glad that you sound satisfied and positive with things, namely, that you are ok with her saying no. I’m sure that now that you’ve asked and gotten an answer, that particular possibility isn’t as mysterious and as nagging as it was before. I hope that asking her was a good experience that has helped you to figure out how you feel about certain things.

Best wishes for your talk with the Franciscan tomorrow! Sounds like a really interesting person to talk to. I hope it goes well and that you’re able to have a good conversation. Always feel free to let us know how it goes, if you should ever feel so inclined.

Take care!
+AMDG+
 
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