Discerning God's Will in an Outcome

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I feel like 1,2, and 3 can be all the same tbh.
That God allowed satan some sort of authority/control, that God is punishing us temporally, all this is within the purview of 3. They can all be true.
 
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My personal response to the Covid19 pandemic quarantine was:

Lord, this is the situation.
What do You want me to do in this situation?
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
Lord, this is the situation.
What do You want me to do in this situation?
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This is a reasonable response. It usually works for me.

Some people decide that God is telling them to do some big elaborate thing like a prayer program that would take up half the week of a monk. Or an “anti-Satan” campaign that seems way excessive to me.
 
No, I’ve seen a lot of “this is a chastisement!” Or “God will send a miracle and save us all” rhetoric, but bad stuff happens and always has, and you can drive yourself nuts inquiring too deeply for the “whys”
 
I don’t pretend to have any wisdom about this, but maybe some words of the saints would help the conversation.

(1) The most important book in my spiritual life has been Abandonment to Divine Providence. Here is a section of it that may help:
God indeed is not and cannot be the author of sin. But it must be remembered that in every sin there are two parts to be distinguished, one natural and the other moral. Thus, in the action of the man you think you have a grievance against there is, for example, the movement of the arm that strikes you or the tongue that offends you, and the movement of the will that turns aside from right reason and the law of God. The physical action of the arm or the tongue, like all natural things, is quite good in itself and there is nothing to prevent its being produced with and by God’s cooperation. What is evil, what God could not cooperate with, is the sinful intention which the will of man contributes to the act. When a man walks with a crippled leg the movement he makes comes both from the soul and the leg, but the defect which causes him to walk badly is only in the leg. In the same way all evil actions must be attributed to God and to man insofar as they are natural, physical acts, but they can be attributed only to the will of man insofar as they are sinful and blameworthy. If then someone strikes you or slanders you, as the movement of the arm or tongue is in no way a sin, God can very well be, and actually is, the author of it; for existence and movement in man not less than in any other creature proceed not from himself but from God, who acts in him and by him.
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(2) It’s also important in my opinion to recall St Paul’s words in Rom 8:28: “We know that all things work for good for those who love God.”

(3) I think we should also mediate on the example of St Bakhita, who said: “If I were to meet those slave traders who kidnapped me and those who tortured me,” she affirms, “I would get down on my knees and kiss their hands, because if that had not happened, I would not be a Christian or religious today.”
 
"He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." Matt 5:44

It’s a messy world, where evil often prevails. But it’s ultimately not our home.
 
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'# 3 and I would add that the fact that Y doesn’t look like the best outcome now may be due to our limited vision. Maybe 20 years from now looking back we will see it was the best outcome and God is much wiser than us!
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Person can have various reactions to the outcome Y:
  1. “Y can’t possibly be the will of God. Satan must have interfered, causing Y.
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I have to admit @Tis_Bearself, I really like your post, I had a good laugh when I read; “Satan must have interfered, causing Y.”
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Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6);

Every our act, includes the acts of Satan postulate (put forward/ cause) Divine concurrence (agreement or union in action/ cooperation) and receive their powers of operation from Him. – John 15:5 … For without Me you can do nothing. Without God, no one can do even a smallest act in the Universe.

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.
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Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains.

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things.

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6); efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence

Providence is God Himself considered in that act by which in His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
www.newadvent.org www.newadvent.org

Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
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God preserves the universe in being; He himself operates in and with every creature in each and all its activities. – CCC 307; CCC 308; etc.
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
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CCC 2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;
“God is the author of all causes and effects, God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”
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God bless
 
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I would reply number 3. We know so little, we see so little from our own vantage points. We certainly cant read the hearts and souls of all people. Time as we know it is an illusion. God sees everything at once. We trust God.
 
I choose 3.

The outcome may not be what I chose but God may have a reason that is not yet readily apparent to me.
 
bruisedreed said:
It’s also important in my opinion to recall St Paul’s words in Rom 8:28: “We know that all things work for good for those who love God.”
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Spot on.

This is the quotation that I cling to during difficult times, like in this pandemic.

In the Divine Mercy prayer, it states submission to his will, which is love and mercy itself.
 
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Thanks for posting that, Latin. This idea that some posters have expressed about how God’s will has nothing to do with some things is unusual to me. I’m not one of these people standing at the deli counter wondering if God wills me to order a cheese sandwich or tuna salad today, but since we do all things in and through God, can do nothing without him, and “in him we live and move and have our being,” I’m quite sure God’s will is involved at some level in everything going on in the world, even if we don’t fully understand it.
 
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What interpretation do you recommend for an English speaker like moi?

I would like to purchase this book, but need a version I can understand easily, so as to be edified.
 
@bruisedreed thanks so much for the link. It is totally affordable!

If anyone is interested, there are also audio links to this book and many others on youtube.

Does anyone else need to listen to such books while working or parenting at home, so hands are free?
 
Yes we can, to some extent, at least in terms of it being God’s will that we take some particular course of action. This is based in Scripture, where God was not shy about expressing his will to certain prophets and to Mary at the Annunciation. It was then up to the prophet or Mary to freely choose to do God’s will.
Likewise, when someone is called to a religious vocation, or to marriage, they have often discerned that it is God’s will that they become a priest or religious, or get married, and they say “Yes” to God by doing what they believe God is calling them to do.
 
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Asking for the grace to say Yes to Gods will, like Mary, is one of the prayers one can add for the Annunciation mystery for an example of contemplation during Rosary…
 
bruisedreed said:
I think we should also mediate on the example of St Bakhita, who said: “If I were to meet those slave traders who kidnapped me and those who tortured me,” she affirms, “I would get down on my knees and kiss their hands, because if that had not happened, I would not be a Christian or religious today.”
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That is a very beautiful example of being thankful for what God allows, although it seems like an evil that is allowed. After the powerful chastisement, there is growth in the direction of what God wants for us-but it has to be done through our will. We must offer it up and keep seeking His face during this time of sorrows, so as to reach that deeper place of conversion that He is leading us towards.

IMHO.

Take up the cross and follow me

Pray to have the graces to get through, to endure to the end, our own scourging, when contemplating the sorrowful mysteries, for example.

(My rosary can take me two hours, as I go off onto tangents and contemplation, which I highly recommend with all of my heart)
 
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