Discerning spirits

[Ginger2]

I thought it might be a good idea to review some of the guidelines set forth in Scriptures which warn us to test everything. Far too many nice people are being led astray by smooth talking preachers whose teaching is contrary to the Holy Word of God. It is the responsibility of the faithful to guard themselves against such false prophets.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God;
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
1 John 4:1

I have heard many people say how they “know” an occurance is from God. But the answers don’t agree with Scriptures. I would like to go thru the list of different comments I have heard repeatedly (not necessarily on this forum) to hopefully create a more thorough and complete understanding.

1. "It was beautiful, so I knew it was from God."

Beauty is not an indication of God. Often in the Bible, messengers from God appeared very average, nothing special. In fact the Bible says, "many have unknowingly entertained angels. That suggests there was nothing outstanding about their appearance.

More striking is the fact that demons can appear as very beautiful creatures.

“And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”
2 Cor 11:14

I can’t count how many times I’ve heard someone claim that they encountered a woman and because she was so beautiful they knew she was A. an angel from God or B. Mary the mother of Jesus. Beauty is not confirmation that an entity is from God.

We are instructed to test the spirits. (1 John 4) The following verses tell us one way we can discern:

2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.

Normally, I wouldn’t suggest engaging an evel spirit in conversation, but if you think it might be from God, test it. If it fails, command it in Jesus name to leave.

 

[Ginger2]

1. "The prophecy came true. so I knew it was from God."

We know if the prophecy fails, it is a false prophet. That one is easy.

Many false prophets have changed their prophecies to fit reality after the original prediction failed. That should also be obvious the prophet was false. But more often the prophecy is vague and left open to many interpretations and those eager to believe, interpret it to fit the circumstances.

But sometimes a false prophecy appears to come true.

"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams,
appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place,
and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ ‘and let us worship them,’
you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer.
Deut 13:1-3

Even when the prophecy comes true, it doesn’t mean it is from God! We still need to test against the Holy Scriptures.

“If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual,
let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment”
1 Corinthians 14:37

"For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,
or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received,
or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
2 Cor 11:4

 

[tskrobacz]

I thought it might be a good idea to review some of the guidelines set forth in Scriptures which warn us to test everything. Far too many nice people are being led astray by smooth talking preachers whose teaching is contrary to the Holy Word of God. It is the responsibility of the faithful to guard themselves against such false prophets.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God;
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
1 John 4:1

I have heard many people say how they “know” an occurance is from God. But the answers don’t agree with Scriptures. I would like to go thru the list of different comments I have heard repeatedly (not necessarily on this forum) to hopefully create a more thorough and complete understanding.

1. "It was beautiful, so I knew it was from God."

Beauty is not an indication of God. Often in the Bible, messengers from God appeared very average, nothing special. In fact the Bible says, "many have unknowingly entertained angels. That suggests there was nothing outstanding about their appearance.

More striking is the fact that demons can appear as very beautiful creatures.

“And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”
2 Cor 11:14

I can’t count how many times I’ve heard someone claim that they encountered a woman and because she was so beautiful they knew she was A. an angel from God or B. Mary the mother of Jesus. Beauty is not confirmation that an entity is from God.

We are instructed to test the spirits. (1 John 4) The following verses tell us one way we can discern:

2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.

Normally, I wouldn’t suggest engaging an evel spirit in conversation, but if you think it might be from God, test it. If it fails, command it in Jesus name to leave.

Attribute ALL things unto God, good and bad - and seek only understanding of his will in each situation and the courage and wisdom to act on his will.

 

[Ginger2]

1. "It quoted Scriptures, so I knew it was from God"

Surprise! Demons know the Scriptures, too.

Then [the devil] led him to Jerusalem, made him stand on the parapet of the temple, and said to him,
“If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here,
10 for it is written: ‘He will command his angels concerning you, to guard you,’
11 and: ‘With their hands they will support you, lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”
Luke 4:9

So, how do we test for truth? Once again the answer is in the Holy Scriptures:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
So by their fruits you will know them.
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.’
Matthew 7:15-23

 

[Ginger2]

1. "It made me feel good, so I knew it was from God."

Doing wrong can often feel very good. And doing what is right can sometimes be painful.

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Ti 4:3

My ex husband told me that having an affair didn’t feel wrong - it felt so good, that he actually convinced himself the relationship was blessed by God. (Although that realization didn’t stop him from getting into another affair about a year and a half later)

“because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.” - Heb 12:6

An angel of God can actually make you feel bad.

Once again, if Scriptures say it is wrong and a spirit or angel tells you it’s good, don’t believe it just because you want to continue doing what you are doing.

Or if a spirit or an angel chastises you and convicts your soul, if he speaks according to the truth in Scriptures, don’t reject the message just because it makes you feel bad.

Guilt is a mechanism God built into the human being to help us and guild us to a better way.

 

[Ginger2]

Finally, does the message fit the purpose outlined in Scriptures?

“But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation”
1 Cor 14:3

If you’re being given a message that you already know about, then what kind of prophecy is that? What purpose does it serve to tell you what you all ready know?

Or if it doesn’t jive with Scriptures, then the spirit is a deceiver!
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Ginger2]

Attribute ALL things unto God, good and bad - and seek only understanding of his will in each situation and the courage and wisdom to act on his will.

Amen!

 

[babylonsfalling]

I can’t count how many times I’ve heard someone claim that they encountered a woman and because she was so beautiful they knew she was A. an angel from God or B. <—REALLY…that many…so many you can’t even count them…are you sure?!

I grew up in the Catholic Church, was out for a while and now back in…and I’ve never met anyone who mistook a beautiful woman for Mary. And Catholics with their greater focus on Mary should be the one’s making these claims. Is there anyone here on this site making these claims?

And both in and out of the Catholic Church, I can’t remember anyone mistaking a beautiful woman for an angel. People might make a silly comparison in saying that her beauty might be angelic but they’ve never believed she was an angel.

Who’s making all these claims? If the’re that frequent, why isn’t anyone else talking about it? Why haven’t I encountered it? I’ve lived in different parts of the US, I’ve lived overseas, I’ve lived in Catholic dominated countries like the Philippines…why haven’t I even once, somewhere on the planet, met someone who mistakes beautiful women for Mary?

If you’re really encountering this soooo many times, maybe you should take a look at whatever crowd you’re hanging out with (weird church or something?) because in normal society, among normal Christians, what you describe just isn’t happening.

 

[promethius]

1. "It quoted Scriptures, so I knew it was from God"

Surprise! Demons know the Scriptures, too.

This is why I’m so glad we have the Magisterial authority of the church to guide us… because not only do demons know scripture, but they know it substantially better than we do and are smart enough to twist it on us. That is why those of us who do not have the particular grace of discernment are protected by the wisdom of the church in these matters.

 

[Ginger2]

…And both in and out of the Catholic Church, I can’t remember anyone mistaking a beautiful woman for an angel. …

This is what I wrote:

1. “**It **was beautiful, so I knew **it **was from God.”

Beauty is not an indication of God. Often in the Bible, messengers from God appeared very average, nothing special. In fact the Bible says, "many have unknowingly entertained angels. That suggests there was nothing outstanding about their appearance.

More striking is the fact that demons can appear as very beautiful creatures.

“And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”
2 Cor 11:14

When I said “a woman” I meant an apparition in the likeness of a woman.

The Catholic Church has many such occurances on record. Some they approve and some they deny, while others they remain undecided.

Medjugorje, Fatima, Necedah, Garabandal, San Damiano, Bayside, Betania, to name a few…

With Catholics, they associate the “woman” with the Virgin Mary. With Protestants they associate the “woman” with an angel.

My point is the reasons they clain to believe*** it ***is from God are not according to the Scriptures.

So why have you singled out one item?

 

[Ginger2]

This is why I’m so glad we have the Magisterial authority of the church to guide us… because not only do demons know scripture, but they know it substantially better than we do and are smart enough to twist it on us. That is why those of us who do not have the particular grace of discernment are protected by the wisdom of the church in these matters.

Exactly! But you do realize there are occasional times when the church has no pope or a …what is it you call them…an anti-pope in place. That is why it is also good to know what the Scriptures say about discernment. And that is why I posted this. You don’t have to wait (sometimes months or even years) for the church to make a decision - you can know right away!

 

[cerad2]

And both in and out of the Catholic Church, I can’t remember anyone mistaking a beautiful woman for an angel. People might make a silly comparison in saying that her beauty might be angelic but they’ve never believed she was an angel.

I have on occasion asked a beautiful woman if they were an angel, usually I get my face slapped. So I guess that means no.

 

[babylonsfalling]

This is what I wrote:

1. “**It **was beautiful, so I knew **it **was from God.”

Beauty is not an indication of God. Often in the Bible, messengers from God appeared very average, nothing special. In fact the Bible says, "many have unknowingly entertained angels. That suggests there was nothing outstanding about their appearance.

More striking is the fact that demons can appear as very beautiful creatures.

“And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”
2 Cor 11:14

When I said “a woman” I meant an apparition in the likeness of a woman.

The Catholic Church has many such occurances on record. Some they approve and some they deny, while others they remain undecided.

Medjugorje, Fatima, Necedah, Garabandal, San Damiano, Bayside, Betania, to name a few…

With Catholics, they associate the “woman” with the Virgin Mary. With Protestants they associate the “woman” with an angel.

My point is the reasons they clain to believe*** it ***is from God are not according to the Scriptures.

So why have you singled out one item?

Really…I thought this is what you said…

I can’t count how many times I’ve heard someone claim that they encountered a woman and because she was so beautiful they knew she was A. an angel from God or B. Mary the mother of Jesus.

And here are the questions you ignored…

Who’s making all these claims?
If the’re that frequent, why isn’t anyone else talking about it?
Why haven’t I encountered it?
I’ve lived in different parts of the US, I’ve lived overseas, I’ve lived in Catholic dominated countries like the Philippines…why haven’t I even once, somewhere on the planet, met someone who mistakes beautiful women for Mary?

If you’re really encountering this soooo many times, maybe you should take a look at whatever crowd you’re hanging out with (weird church or something?) because in normal society, among normal Christians, what you describe just isn’t happening.

 

[Cruxis117]

Exactly! But you do realize there are occasional times when the church has no pope or a …what is it you call them…an anti-pope in place. That is why it is also good to know what the Scriptures say about discernment. And that is why I posted this. You don’t have to wait (sometimes months or even years) for the church to make a decision - you can know right away!

Though there have been times where the time between elections of Popes has been long, this doesn’t negate the teaching authority of the Bishops whom have Apostolic Succession. We’re called to go to the Church, because it is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). Anti-Popes aren’t true Popes. It’s like saying that the BoM is a real Bible. Can we really know? I always take the position of the Eunuch in Acts:

[BIBLEDRB]Acts 8:30-31[/BIBLEDRB]

Though we are to go to the Scriptures (Ignorance of Scripture is Ignorance of Christ), we know full well the result of private interpretation (as in, interpretation which goes against the teaching of the Church:

[BIBLEDRB]2 Peter 1:20[/BIBLEDRB]

We can remember that God has given us many gifts, including:

[BIBLEDRB]Ephesians 4:11-14[/BIBLEDRB]

Again, with regards to the Church, you are correct that it takes time for the Church to make an official pronouncement, which is only done in times of refuting heresy or for edification of the faithful. This doesn’t mean that the Church just makes ideas pop out of thin air, but rather that they are making the final pronouncement on what has already been taught as good and proper doctrine.

 

[Ginger2]

It appears as tho you guys disagree with what the Scriptures teach about testing spirits? That’s what this thread is about!

Do you think Biblical warnings are obsolete? I am not understanding why you seem to be arguing and denying these events - which I did point out - take place (ie The Catholic Church has many such occurances on record. Some they approve and some they deny, while others they remain undecided.

Medjugorje, Fatima, Necedah, Garabandal, San Damiano, Bayside, Betania, to name a few…)

If you don’t think people are following apparitions, then why is the RC making pronouncements as to their validity?

I am not going to respond to any more argumentive posts. It only serves to distract from the topic.

 

[Church_Militant]

It appears as tho you guys disagree with what the Scriptures teach about testing spirits? That’s what this thread is about!

I don’t see where you get that Ginger. Every faithful Catholic on here has plainly stated that we firmly believe in the discernment of spirits and that we follow the leading of the Church on this, since most people don’t have the time to run around making intensive studies of private revelations, but the Church does.

Do you think Biblical warnings are obsolete? I am not understanding why you seem to be arguing and denying these events - which I did point out - take place (ie The Catholic Church has many such occurances on record

. Some they approve and some they deny, while others they remain undecided.Not at all. As you just pointed out that is one of the functions of the Church, so what’s your point? That the New Testament backs up Catholic practice? Isn’t one of the things that we tell n-Cs all the time?

Medjugorje, Fatima, Necedah, Garabandal, San Damiano, Bayside, Betania

, to name a few…)

If you don’t think people are following apparitions, then why is the RC making pronouncements as to their validity?Again, what’s your point? We’ve already stated that we trust the Church that investigates all this, and, having discerned them, guides us accordingly. The only thing that your posts of scriptures shows me is that we have been right all along. Thanks.

 

[You]

Finally, does the message fit the purpose outlined in Scriptures?

“But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation”
1 Cor 14:3

If you’re being given a message that you already know about, then what kind of prophecy is that? What purpose does it serve to tell you what you all ready know?

Or if it doesn’t jive with Scriptures, then the spirit is a deceiver!
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So how do you know if a prophet is real, or a vision or apparition?

 

[Ginger2]

So how do you know if a prophet is real, or a vision or apparition?

Are you asking me specifically? If I have “entertained angels” at any time, I was “unaware”.
I did have a “prophet” tell me he had a message from God for me, one time. I was visiting a church for a baptism and they had music and an open mic time before the service for people to share. I felt moved to share an experience with them. Afterward this man came with his message. He was a false prophet. I know because he was drawing from what I had said earlier and didn’t know the whole story.

If you are asking in general, I’ve already included what Scriptures say about it: if what it says doesn’t jive with Scriptures, then the spirit is a deceiver!
So knowing the Scriptures is the best defence. (Isa 8:20 & Rev 22:18-19)

But, most liars mix enough truth in to make what they say sound believable. So testing them is also advised in Scriptures (1 Jo 4:2-3)

Of course, being able to discern between your own feelings and the guidance of the Holy Spirit is the ultimate protection.

 

[Ginger2]

… The only thing that your posts of scriptures shows me is that we have been right all along. Thanks.

Apologetics: the branch of theology concerned with the defense or proof of Christianity.

This thread is not about criticizing the Catholicism or Protestanism. Please do not try to take it there as it only serves to cause arguments and debates. We both believe the Holy Scriptures so let’s defend them together and remind people the Scriptures are:

2 Timothy 3:16

 

[You]

Are you asking me specifically? If I have “entertained angels” at any time, I was “unaware”.
I did have a “prophet” tell me he had a message from God for me, one time. I was visiting a church for a baptism and they had music and an open mic time before the service for people to share. I felt moved to share an experience with them. Afterward this man came with his message. He was a false prophet. I know because he was drawing from what I had said earlier and didn’t know the whole story.

If you are asking in general, I’ve already included what Scriptures say about it: if what it says doesn’t jive with Scriptures, then the spirit is a deceiver!
So knowing the Scriptures is the best defence. (Isa 8:20 & Rev 22:18-19)

But, most liars mix enough truth in to make what they say sound believable. So testing them is also advised in Scriptures (1 Jo 4:2-3)

Of course, being able to discern between your own feelings and the guidance of the Holy Spirit is the ultimate protection.

I’m just asking because everything I have read in your posts so far is negative. On one hand you seem to accept the possibility of prophets, apparitions etc., but on the other hand you seem to dismiss all reports of such as works of the devil. And I am wondering what apparitions you do in fact accept and how you know they are true.