DISCERNMENT: How do YOU discern?

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discernment
The ability to distinguish; judgement; Discrimination; To distinguish between things; To perceive differences that exist; The condition of understanding; Aesthetic discrimination; taste, appreciation; Perceptiveness; The ability to make wise judgements; sagacity; Discretion in judging objectively
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discernment

How do you discern if someone is speaking spiritual truths?

Three recent posts have prompted this thread:

Please consider for discussion:

Last week, a poster (self described as Catholic), asked for comments on a youth sermon by a Southern Baptist preacher. Other posters described the preacher as a quack or just wasting our time:
Early in his message he asks
“So, the only question that has to be decided here this afternoon is––Is this man before us a false prophet? Or is he telling us the truth? And if he is telling us the truth, then nothing else matters except conforming our lives to that truth.”
That whole thread was deleted in about one day’s time.

Another posting forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=433672
is discussing the claims of the Vatican’s chief exorcist that there are* “cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon”*

And the third posting forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=435342 regarding generally favorable recommendations of the c.s. lewis classic “mere Christianity”

Questions for discussions:

If c.s. lewis was starting out today and posting on youtube or blogging, instead of broadcasting over the BBC decades ago, would you even bother to listen; or would you dismiss him he as a quack that is wasting your time?

**If **the claims of the “cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon” are true; are your more likely to believe a demon linked Bishop , or a Holy Spirit filled Baptist preacher?

“So, the only question that has to be decided here this afternoon is––Is this man before us a false prophet? Or is he telling us the truth? “

How do YOU discern?
 
To be stated simply, the way to discern spiritual arguments such as these is by the teaching of the Catholic Church. Any Christian will tell you to listen to the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit seems to tell people from different denominations and viewpoints different, sometimes conflicting, things. The Holy Spirit speaks through the Church, so these issues and any others regarding faith and morals can be discerned through the Church.

For example, this Baptist preacher is speaking the truth if what he is saying about Christian teaching (not sure what exactly, I didn’t read this one) lines up with the teaching that has been passed down by the Catholic Church since Christ and the Apostles, then it is true. If it is false, it can be dismissed. If it is true, then that just means the preacher has given us a piece of advice/doctrine we already have. There is no need to conform one’s life to the words of one preacher, by any means.

The same is true with the other two examples. No person can judge for sure if every Bishop or Cardinal is a true disciple. If a particular Cardinal isn’t faithful, which is not for us to try to decide, does that destroy the Church? We have survived two millenia with extremely corrupt hierarchy from time to time, and although they have caused scandal, they have not corrupted Church teaching or doctrine one bit. Have Church leaders fallen into sin? Sure. Has the devil entered the Church through this? I think that’s absurd. Until the time comes when clergy become so corrupt that the Church supports abortion, for example, it is nothing short of anti-Catholic bigotry to say it has fallen into the hands of the devil.

C.S. Lewis is a perfect example of discerning through Church teaching. No, he wasn’t a Catholic, but he is a brilliant theological writer. Most of his ideas and beliefs line up with Catholic teaching, and his few quirky ideas that aren’t Catholic…well, us informed Catholics can read without conforming to 100% of it, right?

If you discern by the ancient, unchanging essentials of the Catholic faith, you have a clear Christian judge to go by, no matter what the issue. If you go by the Bible alone, your faith alone, well…the Holy Spirit may help you to be loving, but you won’t have a solid answer.

In Christ and Our Blessed Mother,
Frank
 
RedBert said:
**If ** are your more likely to believe a demon linked Bishop , or a Holy Spirit filled Baptist preacher?
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While we are discerning how to discern we need to remember to discern how to discern if the baptist preacher is indeed filled with the Holy Spirit or not.
 
Philthy said:
According to the Catholic Faith.
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Exactly, Catholic don’t have this problem. Whether you are a priest, Bishop, or a Cardinal, the ‘discernment’ is how it lines up with the Catholic faith.
As a Baptist I had to deal with every new ‘Pope with a Bible’ (a Baptist phrase, not mine). A simple glance at your local yellow pages reveals much about a “discernment” not grounded in authority.
 
The first question for discussion:
RedBert said:
“If c.s. lewis was starting out today and posting on youtube or blogging, instead of broadcasting over the BBC decades ago, would you even bother to listen; or would you dismiss him he as a quack that is wasting your time?”
Click to expand...
Why is this non-Catholic Christian writings favorably received?
Obviously he is not in 100% agreement with all Catholic teaching.
And if the EXACT same writings came out today, would they be rejected?

In today’s world would you just google the guy , find out he believes in something you don’t, and dismiss everything he writes?
 
When I am discerning about somebody, I try to ask myself the following questions: Do they live their lives, preach, and teach in conformity with Church teaching? Do they inspire people to do the same? Do they respect what someone from God would respect (the Church, the pope, the priesthood, Mary, the saints, and the sacraments)? Remembering that the sacraments are the seven most important things we have on earth, I ask myself- does the person I am discerning about feel the same way (if they have the knowledge of them in the first place- someone who is not Catholic and does not have the fullness of truth might not preach about the Eucharist or apostolic succession, but I wouldn’t expect them to really bash those things either)? Do they have a problem with the world? Our world is a pretty sinful place, and someone who speaks God’s truth is probably going to have some things to say that don’t fit with secular culture. Also, such a person shouldn’t feel too comfortable around secular culture either.

When I am trying to discern whether or not someone is from God, I think it important to discern more closely the ones that are closer to the Church- meaning I should look more closely for misleading things from a bishop than you would from, say, Billy Graham- because they are often there, but can be much more difficult to find (and easier to unconsciously follow). We should always respect clergy because of their ordination- as holy as you may be, and as sinful as they may be, priests and bishops have a power that we as laity do not have. Religious have been consecrated to God, and we should honor them for their consecration- even (perhaps especially) when they do not honor that themselves. The people you are discerning about should show that kind of respect to clergy and religious (that does not mean they are silent whenever clergy or religious mislead or teach error though).

Whenever you discern, remember that people can be right on some things and wrong on others. Sometimes people’s doctrine may be ok, and their respect for tradition may be ok, but their way of handling things tends to push people away from them. They may not be the most interesting speaker, or the most exciting or friendly person. Do not confuse dislike for someone’s character with discernment that they are not from God, or that what they have to say has no merit. If they are holy, you can learn something from them- you just may have to look past more imperfections with some people than you do with others. Stay close to these people in spite of their faults, and pray for them- and for those who could benefit from being around them if they would just look beyond the imperfections they see.
 
RedBert said:
The first question for discussion:
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Just a heads up, you wrote 3 questions under the guise of the “first question for discussion”.
Why is this non-Catholic Christian writings favorably received?
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Presumably you mean why is it favorably received* by Catholics*. There are a number of reasons including his keen insight and literary style, but it is favorably received by Catholics to the degree that he insightfully and stylishly presents the truth of the Catholic faith.
Obviously he is not in 100% agreement with all Catholic teaching.
And if the EXACT same writings came out today, would they be rejected?
Click to expand...
Not by Catholics!
In today’s world would you just google the guy , find out he believes in something you don’t, and dismiss everything he writes?
Click to expand...
Not at all. Truth is not confined to the Catholic Church. Non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians were invited to partake in Vatican 2 deliberations. Here is John Paul 2 from his “Crossing the Threshold of Hope”: “…the Second Vatican Council differed from the earlier councils because of its particular style. It was not a defensive style. Not once in the Council documents do the words anathema sit appear. It was an ecumenical style, characterized by great openness to dialogue, a dialogue described by Pope Paul Vl as a “dialogue of salvation.”
This dialogue was not intended to be limited to Christians alone. It was meant to be open to non-Christian religions, and to reach the whole modern world, including those who do not believe. Truth, in fact, cannot be confined. Truth is for one and for all. And if this truth comes about through love (cf Eph 4:15), then it becomes even more universal. This was the style of the Second Vatican Council and the spirit in which it took place.”
I think your apparent assumption that Catholics are not open to hearing the truth from others is a little misplaced. Here the Pope is acknowledging the universality of truth. We listen and enjoy hearing the truth from anyone. And we very much dislike hearing falsehood from anyone - Catholic or not. The problem with listening to non-Catholic preachers for too long is that you know they are eventually going to say something directly contrary to the faith. If that werent the case, they’d be Catholic…

Blessings!
 
Philthy said:
I think your apparent assumption that Catholics are not open to hearing the truth from others is a little misplaced. Here the Pope is acknowledging the universality of truth. We listen and enjoy hearing the truth from anyone. And we very much dislike hearing falsehood from anyone - Catholic or not. The problem with listening to non-Catholic preachers for too long is that you know they are eventually going to say something directly contrary to the faith. If that werent the case, they’d be Catholic…

Blessings!

“We listen and enjoy hearing the truth from anyone”
Agreed that is the case for most (or some) Catholics, : however I was taken back by the comments on the (now deleted) post about the the message from the Baptist minister:

Comments from Catholics such as (working from memory here)
" he believes in OSAS so why believe him on this" (even though OSAS had nothing to do with his message!)

Or he is a quack : you are waisting our time…

yet others stated : there was nothing new in his message that that haven’t heard in a Catholic Church…

My point is some do/did dismiss the “messenger”, regardless of the subject, if they are not in 100% agreement in ALL matters

side note , our UMC Men’s group is currently studying Henri Nouwen’s “Spiritual Living in a Secular World”
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imho as an old and long standing Catholic Paul Washer’s shocking message is more Catholic than many a message given in Catholic pulpits and books etc even those with imprimaturs stating fit for consumption by Catholic youths[in this wise see archive newsletters at www.proecclesia.com] - Paul Washer,it seems,is not welcome for he jolts many out of their sleep and dream state as regarding salvation etc and does what Catholic preachers used to do in the longago and long gone past - twinc
 
RedBert said:
“We listen and enjoy hearing the truth from anyone”
Agreed that is the case for most (or some) Catholics, : however I was taken back by the comments on the (now deleted) post about the the message from the Baptist minister:

Comments from Catholics such as (working from memory here)
" he believes in OSAS so why believe him on this" (even though OSAS had nothing to do with his message!)

Or he is a quack : you are waisting our time…

yet others stated : there was nothing new in his message that that haven’t heard in a Catholic Church…

My point is some do/did dismiss the “messenger”, regardless of the subject, if they are not in 100% agreement in ALL matters

side note , our UMC Men’s group is currently studying Henri Nouwen’s “Spiritual Living in a Secular World”
Click to expand...
There is a reason that our Lord instituted a Church and not merely a confusion of well intentioned individuals offering their variably flawed opinions of what the gospel is. The Church’s proclamation of the gospel far exceeds any individual’s attempt at articulating it. If you wish to know the Catholic faith go to an authoritative source: the Catechism. If you have a question about something, we are always here to try and help explain…

Blessings!
 
The proper and kindly Catholic approach should be to give him a hearing before passing any judgement.If he is wrong lets pray for him[trying to be right] and if he is right lets support him imho - btw again imho as a Catholic of long standing I think he is in line with Catholic teaching and ultimately the Church would approve what he is preaching in line with Mk.9:39 and Lk.9:50 - twinc
 
Philthy said:
There is a reason that our Lord instituted a Church and not merely a confusion of well intentioned individuals offering their variably flawed opinions of what the gospel is. The Church’s proclamation of the gospel far exceeds any individual’s attempt at articulating it. If you wish to know the Catholic faith go to an authoritative source: the Catechism. If you have a question about something, we are always here to try and help explain…

Blessings!
Click to expand...
why not the word of God via Jesus Himself at Mk.9:39 and Lk.9;50 - twinc.
 
I spell discernment L-O-G-I-C

“Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD.

(Isiah 1:18)

and P-R-A-Y-E-R

If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

(James 1:5)

and there are other spellings that are applicable.

😃
 
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