Discipline and cilice

[jcgoodell]

Hold your horses! There have been incredibly few mentions of Opus Dei in this thread (in fact only one, I believe).

I don’t think any mocking or criticism of anyone was involved - certainly not Opus Dei. At least not unless they run that website that sells cilices.

And as has been pointed out, there are many many ways other than the cilice and whip in which you can join in the sufferings of Christ. We’re just giving friendly warnings that such practices should only be undertaken under spiritual direction.

Hello,
As a matter of fact, the Cilice and the Hairshirts are made by Italian Nuns. To those who beleive in it, it is not a Joke. Mortifiction to the one who practices is to do pennance for others out of love for God and humans. If you choose to do it. then do it for those reasons or it will not work. What ever you do from daily prayer to your job should always be done for Christ.
Humble your selves and ask the Blessed Virgin to guide you in these things. SAY THE ROSARY. She will answer you.

 

[jcgoodell]

reading the thread about selfinflicted pain, are there any online Catholic stores that sell the discipine and cilice? i’m looking around for some.

Yes there are as a matter of fact Nuns make them and sell them. If you want to find out the address then I implore you to pray to Mother Mary for guidance. If she feels you are ready then she will help you. If you are not ready then she will again help to prepare you for such an undertaking.
There are other forms of Mortification she asks us to practice. Maybe you should start out with those first. Some of them are Fasting: bread and water and the Black Fast. The Black Fast is a fast from every thing (food and liquids). Presently there is a group of Men in Oregon who are practicing this. The Bread and Water fast is practiced on Wed and Fridays. It is also practiced on Mondays for the Souls in purgatory and is even better when supplemented with the Chaplet for the Holy Souls in Purgatory. That is a true sign of a Saint, to make sacrifices for other out of LOVE.

 

[marywel]

I agree with some of the posts here … I believe Our Lord wants us to consider HIs Perfect Passion for our salvation. I think this is more needful than devices. Certainly penance and mortification is much needed in todays world, no doubt! But I think He will be pleased with the fervent heart that comes to Him daily to contemplate His Passion, Glory, Mercy and Peace. We all should try to spend an hour with Him daily, preferably before the Tabernacle. Many of us are home bound and can’t do that, so a daily holy hour (mine’s at 3pm during the Divine Hour of Mercy) incorporating the Rosary, Chaplets, devotions along with contemplative prayer are just wonderful! Asking for the grace to always embrace His Divine Will with a joyful heart will rid anyone of fear and anxiety

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

My dear friend

As suggested spiritual direction is a must. But isn’t it incredible how people will kill themselves training for sport, at the gym, getting unnecessary plastic surgery, extreme dieting and in many other ways but mention making sacrifices for God and people can’t believe it?

Noone ever died from a bit of penance. But do it under supervision. I personally do little penance butI have several health problems that replace it. There’s nothing wrong with it. It is very healthy when done properly actually.

God bless you:thumbsup:

John

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I think the messages everyone has been posting here, that mortifications like hair shirts and cilices are very good, and there are less severe disciplines like fasting that are also very good, and that we should practice great penances only under spiritual direction, are all very good messages.

My dear friend

As suggested spiritual direction is a must. But isn’t it incredible how people will kill themselves training for sport, at the gym, getting unnecessary plastic surgery, extreme dieting and in many other ways but mention making sacrifices for God and people can’t believe it?

Noone ever died from a bit of penance. But do it under supervision. I personally do little penance butI have several health problems that replace it. There’s nothing wrong with it. It is very healthy when done properly actually.

God bless you:thumbsup:

John

God bless us all and bring us into the mortifications and unity with His Cross that He desires for each one of us.

EDIT: One very good practice is to say, “Thank-you, Lord,” the instant something bad happens to you. When the apostles and saints did this, they were filled with joyful love and gratitude to their God. It is a good act of submission to the will of God in unpleasant events.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Talk to your own priest or confessor if you have no Spiritual Director - but from what I know of St Therese of Lisieux she did no more than you.

Here’s an entry from Wikipedia about her penances.

During the later part of the nineteenth century, Saint Thérèse of the Child Jesus, another Doctor of the Church, at three years of age was described by her mother: "Even Thérèse is anxious to practice mortification.” And Thérèse later wrote: "My God, I will not be a saint by halves. I am not afraid of suffering for Thee.” The “Little Flower”, famous for her “little way” and love of God—fasted and used the ‘discipline’ vigorously, “scourging herself with all the strength and speed of which she was capable, smiling at the crucifix through the tears which bedewed her eyelashes,” according to one of her biographers.

I’ve read the same account of her self-inflicted scourging from other online sources too, not just Wikipedia.

 

[Monica4316]

My dear friend

As suggested spiritual direction is a must. But isn’t it incredible how people will kill themselves training for sport, at the gym, getting unnecessary plastic surgery, extreme dieting and in many other ways but mention making sacrifices for God and people can’t believe it?

Noone ever died from a bit of penance. But do it under supervision. I personally do little penance butI have several health problems that replace it. There’s nothing wrong with it. It is very healthy when done properly actually.

God bless you:thumbsup:

John

good post

 

[Bookcat]

It is a valid form of bodily mortification.

Though it would be recommended that one have spiritual direction in this regard.

Here is a very good article for you

holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/michaelgiesler/corporalmortification.asp

 

[Archangelati777]

You can easily make one out of CLEANED paper clips.
You’ll need about 10 or so (depending on the size of the paperclips and how thick your thighs/calves/waist might be).
Bend several into C-shapes and then bend the ends of each down at an angle.
Then, link them together in a chain and put the angled portions down so that they poke (NOT PIERCE) your skin.
It might take a little experimentation to get them just right so that they aren’t loose or too obvious under clothing, etc.
Just mess around until you get them just right.

 

[Anthony10]

Do you need a cilice? I make them in stainless steel (on my own).

 

[LUVArchangelati]

It might take a little experimentation to get them just right so that they aren’t loose or too obvious under clothing, etc. Just mess around until you get them just right.

What the what? You are a sad strange little man… I’m not surprised you would comment on this thread. I must admit this is a delightfully ingenious suggestion. Sounds like you have some personal experience? … haha modern solutions to ancient devices…

[Before anybody berates others for mortification let me just say] … I’m sure the individual who created this thread was looking for information - not to be spoken down to and attacked by everyone. Yes fasting is an option BUT that is not what was asked. Please respect that some people would like to go above and beyond “average” spirituality… That being said…
Self-flagellation should of course be undertaken in moderation [if you can say such a thing…] Similarly, there is a delicate line between serious fasting and an eating disorder ; it CAN be abused by overzealous individuals but if it is used properly it can ALSO be a great spiritual aid. It’s a great way to help you contemplate the Flagellation of Christ! ;D Don’t go crazy! DO NOT USE SHARP METAL-TIPPED STRANDSAs Catholics we must respect our body [look up Shi’ite Muslim Flagellation for an excellent example of what NOT to do] … our goal with this action should never be to draw blood or HARM the body but to (as the name suggests “Discipline” it)… *To prevent sexual sins St Benedict threw himself into [and rolled around in] a thorny bush. Was this wrong? If you read the medieval text [Life of St Benedict] The question is posed - which is more important to prevent? Harm of the body or harm of the soul? Just saying…

Not to give anything away to certain individuals … [cough! ARCHANGELATI777] but I have been trying to learn how to make a Discipline out of rope/parachute chord [which is much cheaper in the end than buying them online]. If I can figure out how to (properly) make one that is presentable [not that you would want to show it off], … I might post a How To video on YouTube for eccentric Medievalists and penitential Catholics… Currently the only thing remotely close to this is DIY bondage floggers [AWKWARD!]

I have some questions of my own for anybody still interested/ viewing this thread… What are the dimensions for the length of cord/rope needed? What is the significance/ reason for there being (commonly) 5 strands on the whip? (I have also seen 7 strands but the numerical significance there goes without saying) As a Religious Historian I have been trying to do some research on the “discipline” as an object of material culture (I’ve moved well beyond the question of “Why” and am finding it frustrating how very little information there is on “How” … what rhythmic motions are/were used? One hand or two? Or is it up to the individual? How long? Handle or No Handle? Should the strands be covered in wax?)

In case anybody is still looking for an online store… there is always
cilice.co.uk/
[they have a variety of mortification umm … “tools”]

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

What the what? You are a sad strange little man… I’m not surprised you would comment on this thread. I must admit this is a delightfully ingenious suggestion. Sounds like you have some personal experience? … haha modern solutions to ancient devices…

[Before anybody berates others for mortification let me just say] … I’m sure the individual who created this thread was looking for information - not to be spoken down to and attacked by everyone. Yes fasting is an option BUT that is not what was asked. Please respect that some people would like to go above and beyond “average” spirituality… That being said…
Self-flagellation should of course be undertaken in moderation [if you can say such a thing…] Similarly, there is a delicate line between serious fasting and an eating disorder ; it CAN be abused by overzealous individuals but if it is used properly it can ALSO be a great spiritual aid. It’s a great way to help you contemplate the Flagellation of Christ! ;D Don’t go crazy! DO NOT USE SHARP METAL-TIPPED STRANDSAs Catholics we must respect our body [look up Shi’ite Muslim Flagellation for an excellent example of what NOT to do] … our goal with this action should never be to draw blood or HARM the body but to (as the name suggests “Discipline” it)… *To prevent sexual sins St Benedict threw himself into [and rolled around in] a thorny bush. Was this wrong? If you read the medieval text [Life of St Benedict] The question is posed - which is more important to prevent? Harm of the body or harm of the soul? Just saying…

Not to give anything away to certain individuals … [cough! ARCHANGELATI777] but I have been trying to learn how to make a Discipline out of rope/parachute chord [which is much cheaper in the end than buying them online]. If I can figure out how to (properly) make one that is presentable [not that you would want to show it off], … I might post a How To video on YouTube for eccentric Medievalists and penitential Catholics… Currently the only thing remotely close to this is DIY bondage floggers [AWKWARD!]

I have some questions of my own for anybody still interested/ viewing this thread… What are the dimensions for the length of cord/rope needed? What is the significance/ reason for there being (commonly) 5 strands on the whip? (I have also seen 7 strands but the numerical significance there goes without saying) As a Religious Historian I have been trying to do some research on the “discipline” as an object of material culture (I’ve moved well beyond the question of “Why” and am finding it frustrating how very little information there is on “How” … what rhythmic motions are/were used? One hand or two? Or is it up to the individual? How long? Handle or No Handle? Should the strands be covered in wax?)

In case anybody is still looking for an online store… there is always
cilice.co.uk/
[they have a variety of mortification umm … “tools”]

I made my own rope discipline for fun one day. I don’t use it, but I just wanted to see if making them was as easy as it looked based on the design. I could give you the dimensions, and instructions on how to make one, but that would be imprudent of me.

 

[LUVArchangelati]

that would be imprudent of me.

Haha! Thank you - I appreciate your honesty and respect your reluctance… Perhaps it would ease your mind to know that I (too) received permission from my spiritual director :extrahappy: it is permitted “as long as it doesn’t interfere with health”. As a woman, I don’t think I’d have the strength to hit myself hard enough to damage skin anyway. Believe me… I’m a bit of a wimp so I would not have the constitution to ever abuse such a thing.

I don’t think there is a standard make & model for such things since many different cultures use them so very differently. The 13th century (Italian) illustrations and depictions of them look like leather straps on wooden sticks. I have seen modern ones made of steel chains, leather whips, rope and braided cord. I have seen Catholic Mexicans & Filipinos use hard tips on the end which make them bleed (during stations of the cross/Holy Week processions). I plan to do no such thing. Though I do admire the degree of their devotion- extreme as it is. It is rumored that JPII used this form of mortification… I know St Josemaria would whip himself until he bled [then continued to do so more] but I REALLY have NO intentions of doing it to such an extent. *

My cord should come in on Monday… I’ve ordered 25 feet… If my estimated calculations are correct I will only need about 18-20 feet. I don’t plan on tying it as intricately as the ones I’ve seen in some Opus Dei ones.

Thank you anyway,
God Bless!
*

-PAX VOBISCUM

 

[LUVArchangelati]

What is the significance/ reason for there being (commonly) 5 strands on the whip? (I have also seen 7 strands but the numerical significance there goes without saying)

If Anybody is interested … I believe that in my research I have found the answer to my own question. … 5 strands is most probably the common # to use out of devotion & reverence to the 5 Holy Wounds of Christ.

This is something that had not previously occurred to me.
Just thought I’d put it out there for anyone also interested.

 

[catholic_latin]

Corporal Mortification should be practiced privately and without acknowledgment. It is a practice of penance that is incorporated into daily life. For those whom are trying to discredit it probably have not been called to it, as it is NOT for everyone. For those whom accept it, at whatever level, should do so without criticism of others who may practice differing forms of mortification.
You can make your own cilice, or you may purchase one at the site I have used, cilice.co.uk/

 

[Zekariya]

Corporal Mortification should be practiced privately and without acknowledgment. It is a practice of penance that is incorporated into daily life. For those whom are trying to discredit it probably have not been called to it, as it is NOT for everyone. For those whom accept it, at whatever level, should do so without criticism of others who may practice differing forms of mortification.
You can make your own cilice, or you may purchase one at the site I have used, cilice.co.uk/

Corporal Mortification should only be practiced by permission of your spiritual advisor. If you want to do something on your own, wear sackcloth or other uncomfortable clothing next to your skin. Something like the cilice should only be practiced by permission of your spiritual advisor.