Discipline Daughter By Sneaking Super-Hot Pepper Into Her Food

[Siegehammer]

This is parenting the Jamie Oliver way.

Celebrity chef Jamie Oliver said recently that he secretly gave his 12-year-old daughter, Poppy, one of the world’s hottest peppers in order to discipline her, according to The Daily Mail.

At the recent BBC Good Food show, Oliver said, “Poppy was quite disrespectful and rude to me and she pushed her luck. In my day I would have got a bit of a telling-off but you are not allowed to do that. Five minutes later she thought I had forgotten and I hadn’t. She asked for an apple. I cut it up into several pieces and rubbed it with Scotch Bonnet and it worked a treat.”

“She ran up to mum and said, ‘This is peppery’. I was in the corner laughing. [My wife, Jools] said to me, ‘Don’t you ever do that again.’”

How spicy is a Scotch Bonnet pepper? It ranks a whopping 100,000 to 350,000 on the Scoville heat unit scale; for comparison, a jalepeño has a score of 3,000 to 6,000 units.

It’s an excellent lesson, if what he wanted to teach her was that she can’t trust her father.

And, I’m sure most professional chefs would find it appalling that a cook would want to instill in a child an association between food and harm.

 

[jmcrae]

This is parenting the Jamie Oliver way.

It’s an excellent lesson, if what he wanted to teach her was that she can’t trust her father.

And, I’m sure most professional chefs would find it appalling that a cook would want to instill in a child an association between food and harm.

I agree with you. The first disciplinary lesson children need is honesty from their parents.

Also, there is no law against lecturing your 12-year-old. I’m not sure where he gets the idea that he can’t speak to his daughter about her behaviour. He can’t swear at her or use abusive language against her, but he can certainly express to her that she hurt his feelings, and that she needs to apologize, and come up with a plan for breaking the habit of being rude to her father. He can also give her a time-out, and take away privileges.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Surely this qualifies as child abuse?

 

[meltzerboy]

Surely this qualifies as child abuse?

No, it’s all great fun! In fact, he might have tried the ghost pepper instead, which rates over 1 million S.H.U. That one can induce cardiac arrest.

 

[3DOCTORS]

No, it’s all great fun! In fact, he might have tried the ghost pepper instead, which rates over 1 million S.H.U. That one can induce cardiac arrest.

It is child abuse - and he’d better hope his daughter never finds out about the ghost pepper - revenge is a dish best served HOT in this case. (Kidding. Sort of.) I don’t understand parents who are sadistic like that.

 

[tawny]

It is child abuse - and he’d better hope his daughter never finds out about the ghost pepper - revenge is a dish best served HOT in this case. (Kidding. Sort of.) I don’t understand parents who are sadistic like that.

Agree. Nothing one bit funny about it.

 

[oldgraymare2]

This isn’t right, especially if he wants to get started on instilling issues in relation to relating food with punishment issues with her.

 

[GEddie]

This is definitely abuse, IMNAAHO.

In my generation, kids got whupped, and by and large the vast majority both understood and came out OK. The civil state says no more. Fine, render unto Caesar.

But that leads to “creativity” in punishment that is even worse, sadly.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

FWIW, the ghost pepper would not be the ultimate in hot vengeance; according to the Dallas News, that distinction would go to the “Trinidad Butch T” pepper at 1.4 M Scovilles.

ICXC NIKA

 

[underacloud]

Well, to be fair, it is the article that says he did this “in order to discipline her”, but his telling of the story suggests it was more along the lines of a practical joke rather than a legitimate disciplinary tool. Jamie would probably know whether his daughter can handle some chilli heat - and being Jamie’s daughter I imagine she can - and to his credit he notes his wife’s thorough disapproval.

It sounds like it’s not a great idea, but there’s more nuance here than it simply amounting to child abuse.

 

[esieffe]

This is illegal. Child endangerment. I put this in the same league as putting poison ivy on his chef knife handles. This could make her sick, the product of a sick mind. He needs counseling and parenting classes. If I had his address, I would personally make a DCFS referral.

 

[EasterJoy]

Scotch bonnets are very hot, but “very hot” is relative. People do build a tolerance to the chemicals in peppers that make them hot.

Note that the child went to her mother and said, “This is peppery.” She didn’t bolt to the kitchen and start chugging milk. She didn’t start yelling in pain. She had eaten an apple that had touched a hot pepper, not the pepper itself, let alone the seeds. If the family regularly eats foods with Scotch bonnets or other hot peppers in them–hello, there is a reason he had a Scotch bonnet just lying around his home kitchen–eating something that has touched a Scotch bonnet would be unlikely to constitute child abuse. Just because your spouse says, “Don’t ever do that again,” you are not necessarily committing child abuse, either. You are doing something she doesn’t approve of, but that doesn’t make what you’re doing abusive.

It was probably uncomfortable. It might even have been more like allowing your child to steal a bar of chocolate in the knowledge that that the little stinker had stolen unsweetened chocolate. Keep in mind he is a chef; he does have some idea how hot he’s making something.

Don’t get me wrong; I agree with his wife. Practical jokes are not discipline, and capsaicin isn’t a good candidate for practical jokes. If it were to have gotten into the child’s eye, it would have been very irritating, no matter how much she was used to eating. From the child’s reaction, however, I very much doubt that her father put as much capsaicin on her apple as everyone here is assuming that he did.

 

[Ms_Manners]

Messing with someone’s food is not funny and is not a way to teach a child, even if he does know his daughter.
It’s getting down to a very childish level, the culinary equivalent of shoving in the sandbox, instead of teaching by example.
It might be slightly funny in adult-on-adult pranks, but for a child…
The only thing it would teach me is to peel my apples and taste my food very carefully.

 

[pensmama87]

Scotch bonnets are very hot, but “very hot” is relative. People do build a tolerance to the chemicals in peppers that make them hot.

Note that the child went to her mother and said, “This is peppery.” She didn’t bolt to the kitchen and start chugging milk. She didn’t start yelling in pain. She had eaten an apple that had touched a hot pepper, not the pepper itself, let alone the seeds. If the family regularly eats foods with Scotch bonnets or other hot peppers in them–hello, there is a reason he had a Scotch bonnet just lying around his home kitchen–eating something that has touched a Scotch bonnet would be unlikely to constitute child abuse. Just because your spouse says, “Don’t ever do that again,” you are not necessarily committing child abuse, either. You are doing something she doesn’t approve of, but that doesn’t make what you’re doing abusive.

It was probably uncomfortable. It might even have been more like allowing your child to steal a bar of chocolate in the knowledge that that the little stinker had stolen unsweetened chocolate. Keep in mind he is a chef; he does have some idea how hot he’s making something.

Don’t get me wrong; I agree with his wife. Practical jokes are not discipline, and capsaicin isn’t a good candidate for practical jokes. If it were to have gotten into the child’s eye, it would have been very irritating, no matter how much she was used to eating. From the child’s reaction, however, I very much doubt that her father put as much capsaicin on her apple as everyone here is assuming that he did.

I do think bad tasting things can have a place in child rearing. They helped me break my son of a really bad chewing habit (used that special nail polish manufactured to stop biting nails, and just put it on things he was prone to chewing on.) It wasn’t the only thing I used to stop the habit, but it helped from having some toys destroyed in the meantime. And I wouldn’t have ever put it on something I wanted him to eat.

I don’t think I would do it, but I do know that it was common to “wash one’s mouth out with soap.” But here there doesn’t seem to be any relation at all - does the girl even know why the apple tasted the way it did? At least if you’re doing the soap thing, child knows - "say something bad, get mouth “cleaned”). It’s a known consequence for a known behavioral problem.

There are things that my husband has done (or I have done) that I have said to him (or to myself, I don’t think he’s ever said it to me) “don’t do it again,” but it’s never been in the “this is abusive” realm, mostly “that’s completely counter-productive to what you’re trying to accomplish.”

 

[Orogeny]

Also, there is no law against lecturing your 12-year-old. I’m not sure where he gets the idea that he can’t speak to his daughter about her behaviour. He can’t swear at her or use abusive language against her, but he can certainly express to her that she hurt his feelings, and that she needs to apologize, and come up with a plan for breaking the habit of being rude to her father. He can also give her a time-out, and take away privileges.

He is in England and the atmosphere there seems to be different than in other places. My wife’s boss has a son stationed in England. A couple of months ago, they visited their son and, while at an ice cream store, one of the grandchildren (4 years old) started acting up and, when the dad (an Air Force pilot) verbally corrected his son, he was approached by two different people threatening to call the authorities on him for abusing his child. He didn’t do anything physically at all to the boy, he was just correcting him verbally. They were stunned.

Apparently, based on Oliver’s statement and the event I described, you cannot correct your children in England, at least in public.

Peace

Tim

 

[FJBSJ]

This is parenting the Jamie Oliver way.

It’s an excellent lesson, if what he wanted to teach her was that she can’t trust her father.

And, I’m sure most professional chefs would find it appalling that a cook would want to instill in a child an association between food and harm.

I am lost. What exactly does putting a pepper in a dish teach? Discipline like this is arbitrary and serves no purpose but to vent sadistic tendencies. Having a conversation is the tried and proven way to work with children.

 

[3DOCTORS]

This is definitely abuse, IMNAAHO.

**In my generation, kids got whupped, and by and large the vast majority both understood and came out OK. The civil state says no more. Fine, render unto Caesar.

But that leads to “creativity” in punishment that is even worse, sadly.
**
ICXC NIKA

I won’t get into the whupping debate too much, as that’ll surely derail the thread. I’m not a fan, is all I’ll say on that. Even though it’s not my way, though, I can sort of wrap my mind around the idea that if it happens and isn’t extreme force and not accompanied by verbal demeaning, and once it’s over it’s over, and most of the family interactions are based on love and positive values - it may be not the worst thing ever.

Some parents who use severe corporal punishment do also do other “creative” mean things. There we’re getting into the personality and mental stability/instability of the individual parent. I just mean to say that doing a sneaky thing like the pepper trick is not caused by society’s frowning on corporal punishment per se.

Scotch bonnets are very hot, but “very hot” is relative. People do build a tolerance to the chemicals in peppers that make them hot.

Note that the child went to her mother and said, “This is peppery.” She didn’t bolt to the kitchen and start chugging milk. She didn’t start yelling in pain. She had eaten an apple that had touched a hot pepper, not the pepper itself, let alone the seeds. If the family regularly eats foods with Scotch bonnets or other hot peppers in them . . .

It was probably uncomfortable. It might even have been more like allowing your child to steal a bar of chocolate in the knowledge that that the little stinker had stolen unsweetened chocolate. Keep in mind he is a chef; he does have some idea how hot he’s making something.

Don’t get me wrong; I agree with his wife. Practical jokes are not discipline, and capsaicin isn’t a good candidate for practical jokes. If it were to have gotten into the child’s eye, it would have been very irritating, no matter how much she was used to eating. From the child’s reaction, however, I very much doubt that her father put as much capsaicin on her apple as everyone here is assuming that he did.

Makes sense. I’m a picky eater with a sensitive stomach and most peppers are on my evil list but it might not be the same as if this girl had never eaten a pepper before. But like you point out, she might’ve rubbed her eye and that wouldn’t have been pretty. uch: And it still seems too calculated and cruel somehow. My mother disapproved of practical jokes and I generally do too, unless the context is clearly fun, not spiteful, and the joke in question is pretty innocuous.

I do think bad tasting things can have a place in child rearing. They helped me break my son of a really bad chewing habit (used that special nail polish manufactured to stop biting nails, and just put it on things he was prone to chewing on.) It wasn’t the only thing I used to stop the habit, but it helped from having some toys destroyed in the meantime. And I wouldn’t have ever put it on something I wanted him to eat.

I don’t think I would do it, but I do know that it was common to “wash one’s mouth out with soap.” But here there doesn’t seem to be any relation at all - does the girl even know why the apple tasted the way it did? At least if you’re doing the soap thing, child knows - "say something bad, get mouth “cleaned”). It’s a known consequence for a known behavioral problem.

There are things that my husband has done (or I have done) that I have said to him (or to myself, I don’t think he’s ever said it to me) “don’t do it again,” but it’s never been in the “this is abusive” realm, mostly “that’s completely counter-productive to what you’re trying to accomplish.”

This may be the heart of the matter right here. Your son knew what was happening when you put the stuff on his nails and toys, though, right? It wasn’t a total nasty surprise to him. There’s also training spray for pets to not chew on plants that might be poisonous to them, or your furniture, etc. It’s more of a conditioned, ongoing behavioral training program, though. Not an act of revenge in anger.

Sorry to be critical, but washing mouths out with soap to me seems harsh. When I heard about it happening to other children I was horrified. And don’t you have to wrestle the child to do it and they’re all upset? I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.

 

[pensmama87]

I won’t get into the whupping debate too much, as that’ll surely derail the thread. I’m not a fan, is all I’ll say on that. Even though it’s not my way, though, I can sort of wrap my mind around the idea that if it happens and isn’t extreme force and not accompanied by verbal demeaning, and once it’s over it’s over, and most of the family interactions are based on love and positive values - it may be not the worst thing ever.

Some parents who use severe corporal punishment do also do other “creative” mean things. There we’re getting into the personality and mental stability/instability of the individual parent. I just mean to say that doing a sneaky thing like the pepper trick is not caused by society’s frowning on corporal punishment per se.

Makes sense. I’m a picky eater with a sensitive stomach and most peppers are on my evil list but it might not be the same as if this girl had never eaten a pepper before. But like you point out, she might’ve rubbed her eye and that wouldn’t have been pretty. uch: And it still seems too calculated and cruel somehow. My mother disapproved of practical jokes and I generally do too, unless the context is clearly fun, not spiteful, and the joke in question is pretty innocuous.

This may be the heart of the matter right here. Your son knew what was happening when you put the stuff on his nails and toys, though, right? It wasn’t a total nasty surprise to him. There’s also training spray for pets to not chew on plants that might be poisonous to them, or your furniture, etc. It’s more of a conditioned, ongoing behavioral training program, though. Not an act of revenge in anger.

Sorry to be critical, but washing mouths out with soap to me seems harsh. When I heard about it happening to other children I was horrified. And don’t you have to wrestle the child to do it and they’re all upset? I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.

Yes, he knew it, and the bad taste was a good reminder to him. The chewing was a habit, and the bad taste made him think about what he was doing and stop, rather than mindlessly put something in his mouth.

I agree with you about the soap being harsh, which is why I don’t see myself doing it, although I know of people who have. Mostly for older children who would presumably know not to struggle or fight, and I’ve usually heard it used for profanity. (Have you seen the scene in A Christmas Story where the author discusses his favorite brands? “Over the years I got to be quite a connoisseur of soap. Though my personal preference was for Lux, I found that Palmolive had a nice, piquant after-dinner flavor - heavy, but with a touch of mellow smoothness. Lifebuoy, on the other hand… (Yechh!)” )

 

[Country_Gal]

What ever happened to a good old fashioned, straight forward spanking? This is what you did, and now I’m going punish you.

No, this father is totally confusing his child by ambushing her with a sick, practical joke and then telling her it’s punishment. The child is going to be very confused by this nonsense!

He’s too cowardly to be an adult and lay down the law to his child. Instead he acts like a sadistic clown.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Nope, this is a practical joke not discipline.

Discipline involves reinforcing to the child what they did was wrong and why it is wrong, and then applying the appropriate punishment (which should come as no surprise to the child, and should be tailored to something that does elicit the appropriate behavior in the future from that child).

At her age, they should have already covered/made her aware of back talk/disrespect/rudeness being wrong and the associated punishment. So, he should have called her on it immediately and applied the relevant punishment.

Back talk to my mother would have resulted in a spanking from my father. I didn’t like spankings and he only had to do it once since, running the cost/benefit of talking back didn’t warrant the risk of a spanking.