Disconcerting Experience at Mass This Evening

[benedictgal]

Our diocesan priests had a day of prayer. I didn’t know this was going to happen, so when I showed up for noon Mass at my parish, I saw an EMHC getting ready for a Communion Service, so I bolted, choosing instead to go to Mass this evening.

An extended meeting with a judge kept me from going to an earlier Mass (after work), so I went to Mass at a parish in the north side of town. I did not realize that the Mass was going to be part of a nine-day novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe, as well as a parish mission.

It was okay (even though the priest wore white vestments) up until we got to the Penitential Rite. While we prayed the Confieteor, the priest ijnserted the Intentions of the Mass it was as though we had the General Intercessions mingled into the Penitential Rite. Things deteriorated when we got to the Collect and everything went downhill faster than an avalanche. The priest had the faithful join him in the recitation of the Collect. To make it worse, the priest used a home-made Collect. It was not from any approved liturgical book. It was very personal and was geared towards the mission. It was also very long.

The homliy was about 50 minutes long and it was about 60% comedy and 40% substance. The substantive parts were good, but the jokes were not really necessary. I was still perterbed by the “Collect”.

He prayed the preface for the second half of Advent and then used one of the Swiss Canons. Correct me if I’m wrong, japhy or Fr. David, but, don’t these particular Canons have their own preface? The concelebrating priest (the pastor) decided to add words to the Memorial and I was biting my tongue and wishing for a valium.

The Pater Noster was scary. The EMHCs, altar servers and lector joined the priest and they all held hands (uplifted) during the prayer. Then, during the Agnus Dei, the EMHCs went to the tabernacle to retrieve the ciboria and they stood next to the celebrant and the concelebrant. They, too, were given Holy Communion at the same time the priests got their piece of the Body of Christ. They, however, did not consume until after the priests consumed the Body of Christ.

Here is the bad part (as if this can’t get any worse). Inasmuch as there was a church-full,at standing room only, the four EMHCs assisted the concelebrant in distributing Holy Communion whlie the celebrant remained seated. No, he wasn’t impaired, he was standing and walking up and down during the homily. I did not want to recieve from an EMHC so I went to the celebrant. After Communion, the celebrant purified the vessels while the EMHCs returned the ciborrium back to the Tabernacle.

The concelebrant (who turned out to be the pastor) got up (so much for sacred silence) and got upset with the people for not bringing more people to the novena/mission. I am sorry, but, considering the way that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was handled, I would have stayed away, too. I found out that the celebrant was from Mexico.

After Mass, I approached the celebrant and told him that I was concerned during the Mass. He asked me why, and I explained to him that there were several major abuses in the way the Holy Sacrifice was celebrated. He asked me which ones. I told him that the grave ones were the matter of the Collect (including the people praying along aloud and the home-made prayer), the manner in which the EMHCs approached Holy Communion and partaking as though they were concelebrants and the manner in which Holy Communion was distributed.

I told him that these issues were addressed in Redemptionis Sacramentum. He told me that different conferences allow different things. However, I respectfully informed him that even though the Roman Missal is from the Mexican Episcopal Conference, we were bound to what the GIRM from the USCCB mandates. Furthermore, the GIRM from the Mexican EC does not have any variances that would have justified what went on this evening. He was perplexed, but, he told me that he would discuss this with the pastor. The pastor is not known for his fidelity to the rubrics.

I am not one to drink, but, for a moment, I was tempted to sneak in a strong liquor into my Dr. Pepper.

 

[FrDavid96]

Don’t know what to say other than that such actions bring shame and dishonor to the entire priesthood. I’m sorry that happened.

I can’t say anything at all about the “Swiss canons.” If you mean one of the “EPs for various needs and occasions” all I can say is that the Church says they’re valid, and I used one once, but will never even consider doing so again. Can’t say what happens with the prefaces, other than Advent II isn’t to be used yet–perhaps that option exists in the Missal for Mexico. Don’t know offhand.

 

[benedictgal]

Don’t know what to say other than that such actions bring shame and dishonor to the entire priesthood. I’m sorry that happened.

I can’t say anything at all about the “Swiss canons.” If you mean one of the “EPs for various needs and occasions” all I can say is that the Church says they’re valid, and I used one once, but will never even consider doing so again. Can’t say what happens with the prefaces, other than Advent II isn’t to be used yet–perhaps that option exists in the Missal for Mexico. Don’t know offhand.

I have read the Mexican Sacramentary. It has the same notation as ours regarding the prefaces for Advent I and Advent II (to be used Dec. 17th to midday Dec. 24) so there is no change.

It was just a mess. To top it all off, they had the Poinsettias up, along with the Advent wreath, but, that was the least of their problems.

 

[Trishie]

Don’t know what to say other than that such actions bring shame and dishonor to the entire priesthood. I’m sorry that happened.

Your humble words are a healing witness, Father David. Thank you

 

[zab]

December3, Memorial of St. Frances Xavier. Our pastor wore white today, too

 

[benedictgal]

I am contemplating droppinng off a Spanish copy of Redemptionis Sacramentum to see if that might help, but, from what I experienced last night, they may be at the point of no return.

Part of me felt like Jesus with the moneychangers, as I wanted to grab my Kathy Van Zeeland bag and start cleaning house. I probably should have left, but, the place was really crowded.

Don’t get me wrong. I was happy to see so many people in church on a weeknight; however, that still does not justify the strange and ilicit things that went on yesterday evening.

Having attended a couple of Masses across the border in Nuevo Laredo, I am a little concerned now with what I think is a trend in Mexico regarding the lack of adherence to the rubrics. Two weeks ago, I accompanied my father to the Cathedral for Mass. They had a visiting priest from Mexico who was celebrating a young lady’s Quince Anos (15th birthday). It was strange as the honoree’s mother brought her own musicians, along with the priest. However,she (and, evidently the priest) failed to take into consideration that this Mass was the parish’s anticipated Sunday Mass as well as the Solemnity of Christ the King. The musicians played a secular guitar piece for the offertory. The Mass parts did not jibe with the approved texts. The honoree’s mother also brought her own lector but never told the parish so we had competing lectors and the second reading wound up being proclaimed twice. Even though the priest began the homily well, focusing on Christ the King, he spent the latter part extolling the young honoree and directing his remarks towards her.

Holy Communion was a disaster. He left the huge carafe filled with wine on the altar and consecrated it. But, when it came time to distribute Holy Communion, he told the EMHCs who were to assist with the Chalice that he would not be distributing under both species. During the recessional, I walked over to where the EMHCs were and told them to consume the Precious Blood since it had already been consecrated. They did.

The faithful, for their part,were complaining, as was the organist because the honoree’s mother never told him that he wasn’t going to be needed. As an aside, I think that he should have been given a bench fee.

I sometimes think I am a magnet for liturgical abuse. It is just very disconcerting. However, in the case of what I saw last night, it’s even worse because the pastor was right there, giving his ascent to what was happening and contributing to it.

 

[benedictgal]

December3, Memorial of St. Frances Xavier. Our pastor wore white today, too

No, this was December 4th. There was an optional memorial, St. John Damascus, I believe, but, this Mass was part of a novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe. However, the vestments were white and had her image on them. The readings, though, were proper to the day.

Correct me if I’m wrong, anybody, but, given the fact that we are in Advent, unless it’s a commemoration of a saint, aren’t there only two options? Wouldn’t these be for either the commemoration of the saint (or solemnity) or the actual season (Advent weekday)?

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against a novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe, nor the Immaculate Concneption, but, wouldn’t it have been better just to wear purple instead? The color, though, was the very least, minuscle issue yesterday evening. The stuff in my initial post was serious, as Ming Ming from the Wonder Pets would say.

 

[zab]

=benedictgal;4509298
The Pater Noster was scary. The EMHCs, altar servers and lector joined the priest and they all held hands (uplifted) during the prayer. Then, during the Agnus Dei, the EMHCs went to the tabernacle to retrieve the ciboria and they stood next to the celebrant and the concelebrant. They, too, were given Holy Communion at the same time the priests got their piece of the Body of Christ. They, however, did not consume until after the priests consumed the Body of Christ.

Whether it was your intention or not, your description of the priests reception of Holy Communion comes across in a not so charitable way.

 

[student_of_God]

I’m sorry you had this experience it saddens and angers me that the NO has brought with it so much abuse I hope the holy father will majorly step in soon to return things to the way the council fathers intended I have not yet encountered such liturgical abuse and I pray that I never will

S of G

 

[JPUSC]

Everything you described sounds just about like what I’ve seen at most parishes I’ve been to.

Better to remember the words of Our Lady of Akita, than drink yourself to sleep worrying about all these liturgical abuses. They will come to pass eventually. Maybe in a few decades?

“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”

Our Lady of Akita​

 

[puzzleannie]

my only thought is to be thankful you have never had to witness REAL liturgical abuse that which makes the celebration illicit or the sacrament invalid, and hope you can take comfort in that fact.

 

[student_of_God]

“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”
Our Lady of Akita

has the church approved of these apparitions ?

S of G

 

[JPUSC]

“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”
Our Lady of Akita

has the church approved of these apparitions ?

S of G

Church Approves Messages, Weeping Statue As Supernatural

April, 1984—Most. Rev. John Shojiro Ito, Bishop of Niigata, Japan, after years of extensive investigation, declares the events of Akita, Japan to be of supernatural origin, and authorizes throughout the entire diocese the veneration of the Holy Mother of Akita.

On April 22, 1984, after eight years of investigations, after consultation with the Holy See, the messages of Our Lady of Akita were approved by the Bishop of the diocese. In the Japanese village of Akita, a statue of the Madonna, according to the testimony of more than 500 Christians and non-Christians, including the Buddhist mayor of the town, has shed blood, sweat and tears. A nun, Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa has received the stigmata and has received messages from Our Lady.

June, 1988—Vatican City—Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, gives definitive judgement on the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief.

ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm

 

[benedictgal]

Whether it was your intention or not, your description of the priests reception of Holy Communion comes across in a not so charitable way.

No, it was not my intention. The whole experience left me discombobulated. It was very unsettling.

Now, I did experience a Mass where the celebrant (who was visiting this same parish and substituting while the pastor went on vacation) forgot to consecrate the Precious Blood. It was not his fault. The manner in which the choir, lector and altar servers conducted themselves (not rude, but, lacking in the rudiments of the liturgy) got him out of synch big-time to the point that he pretty much had to pull away from the group during the Pater Noster (as they wanted to grab his hand. He also had to stop the choir and have them wait on the Agnus Dei (they were singing it as the people were exchanging the sign of peace). Then, the EMHCs, who were already at the altar, were surrounding him as though they were concelebrants and were expecting for him to give them the Sacred Host during the Fraction Rite. He gave them a hand-sign to step back.

I purposely chose to be the last in line to inform him that he forgot to consecrate the Precious Blood. He thanked me and told me that considering what he just experienced, he was not surprised.

He went back to the altar, consecrated the sacred species and consumed the Precious Blood. And, no, he did not offer both Species to the folks up on the altar.

So, if a lay person like me can get discombobulated with something like this, imagine if you were the celebrant? I am curious as to how any other priest would have handled this. I suspect that this would have been very troubling for him, too.

 

[zab]

No, it was not my intention. The whole experience left me discombobulated. It was very unsettling.

Now, I did experience a Mass where the celebrant (who was visiting this same parish and substituting while the pastor went on vacation) forgot to consecrate the Precious Blood. It was not his fault. The manner in which the choir, lector and altar servers conducted themselves (not rude, but, lacking in the rudiments of the liturgy) got him out of synch big-time to the point that he pretty much had to pull away from the group during the Pater Noster (as they wanted to grab his hand. He also had to stop the choir and have them wait on the Agnus Dei (they were singing it as the people were exchanging the sign of peace). Then, the EMHCs, who were already at the altar, were surrounding him as though they were concelebrants and were expecting for him to give them the Sacred Host during the Fraction Rite. He gave them a hand-sign to step back.

I** purposely chose to be the last in line to inform him that he forgot to consecrate the Precious Blood. ** He thanked me and told me that considering what he just experienced, he was not surprised.

He went back to the altar, consecrated the sacred species and consumed the Precious Blood. And, no, he did not offer both Species to the folks up on the altar.

So, if a lay person like me can get discombobulated with something like this, imagine if you were the celebrant? I am curious as to how any other priest would have handled this. I suspect that this would have been very troubling for him, too.

You have not given us enough information to understand why you purposely chose to be last in line to inform the priest that he had not consecrated the wine instead of first in line.

 

[benedictgal]

You have not given us enough information to understand why you purposely chose to be last in line to inform the priest that he had not consecrated the wine instead of first in line.

I was in the very back of the church, which happened to be crowded. This means that I was in the last pew. It’s not like I could shout and wave my hand at him during the consecration. Believe me, the thought did cross my mind, but, the circumstances were such that this could not happen. I did the best that I could considering the logistics.

 

[student_of_God]

Church Approves Messages, Weeping Statue As Supernatural

April, 1984—Most. Rev. John Shojiro Ito, Bishop of Niigata, Japan, after years of extensive investigation, declares the events of Akita, Japan to be of supernatural origin, and authorizes throughout the entire diocese the veneration of the Holy Mother of Akita.

On April 22, 1984, after eight years of investigations, after consultation with the Holy See, the messages of Our Lady of Akita were approved by the Bishop of the diocese. In the Japanese village of Akita, a statue of the Madonna, according to the testimony of more than 500 Christians and non-Christians, including the Buddhist mayor of the town, has shed blood, sweat and tears. A nun, Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa has received the stigmata and has received messages from Our Lady.

June, 1988—Vatican City—Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, gives definitive judgement on the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief.

ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm

Thanks for the info I just wondered

S of G

 

[AJV]

No, this was December 4th. There was an optional memorial, St. John Damascus, I believe, but, this Mass was part of a novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe. However, the vestments were white and had her image on them. The readings, though, were proper to the day.

Correct me if I’m wrong, anybody, but, given the fact that we are in Advent, unless it’s a commemoration of a saint, aren’t there only two options? Wouldn’t these be for either the commemoration of the saint (or solemnity) or the actual season (Advent weekday)?

At the discretion of the celebrant and/or the pastor, a Votive Mass may be celebrated until the 17th (except on the Immaculate Conception), for some occasion of pastoral advantage. I suppose a novena for OL Guadalupe would qualify as such.

IMHO, I would not so as to use the purple vestments and emphasize the season we are in, and also because there is only one Mass that can be said, so to use it before the feast is a sort of anti-climax.

From the 17th-24th, it would require the bishop’s permission.

 

[benedictgal]

At the discretion of the celebrant and/or the pastor, a Votive Mass may be celebrated until the 17th (except on the Immaculate Conception), for some occasion of pastoral advantage. I suppose a novena for OL Guadalupe would qualify as such.

IMHO, I would not so as to use the purple vestments and emphasize the season we are in, and also because there is only one Mass that can be said, so to use it before the feast is a sort of anti-climax.

From the 17th-24th, it would require the bishop’s permission.

Thank you for the clarification. The color was the least of the problems. I called the USCCB Divine Worship Office to get clarification on some of what happened and the guy answering the phone brushed me off and told me to talk to my diocesan DWO. I explained to him that this office no longer exists.

Nonetheless, I know what I experienced last night. And, I know that it was wrong.

AJV, how would you have handled the situation where the visiting priest was shaken up by what was happening that he forgot to consecrate the Precious Blood? I couldn’t very well wave him down nor shout at him, especially since I was sitting in the back of the church. I also wasn’t going to mow my way up the aisle to be the first communicant. I figured as the last communicant, I could inform him discretely and let him take care of the situation. No one but he and I noticed what had happened.

I will say this much for the parish. The one bright spot in all of this, if such a moment exists, is the fact that they didn’t have a commentator going on and on, sometimes longer than the homily.

 

[zab]

Thank you for the clarification. The color was the least of the problems. I called the USCCB Divine Worship Office to get clarification on some of what happened and the guy answering the phone brushed me off and told me to talk to my diocesan DWO. I explained to him that this office no longer exists.

Nonetheless, I know what I experienced last night. And, I know that it was wrong.

AJV, how would you have handled the situation where the visiting priest was shaken up by what was happening that he forgot to consecrate the Precious Blood? I couldn’t very well wave him down nor shout at him, especially since I was sitting in the back of the church. I also wasn’t going to mow my way up the aisle to be the first communicant. I figured as the last communicant, I could inform him discretely and let him take care of the situation. No one but he and I noticed what had happened.

I will say this much for the parish. The one bright spot in all of this, if such a moment exists, is the fact that they didn’t have a commentator going on and on, sometimes longer than the homily.

No need to fret about it.