Discouraged about Catholicism

[SpiritFire]

Hi all.

I am a Roman Rite Catholic. I love to study rubrics, I love liturgies, sacred music, and the other rites (i.e. Eastern rites and Eastern theology), holy places, holy things. Things people have lost a sense of. Tradition.
I am kinda discouraged. I love the Church, and everything it is. (or is supposed to be) As a revert from Fundamentalism, I am more than enthusiastic about all the so-called “extra” stuff (richness) that Catholicism holds. However, I feel like tradition and reverence is getting set aside, and the faith that comes from the apostles is getting infiltrated with too much modern “world-view” or “culture”, of which I feel is the opposite of that faith.
People don’t fast, (which has slacked off so much in America it’s almost non-existent), people don’t read much of anything that was before before Vatican II, there is a lot of Protestantism (of which I would like to be rid, having just converted from it). At least in my experience of reading and attending parishes in America.
Basically I feel we function off the last fifty years of latest trends and it’s a big stew of different denominations.
We have history. We have a sacred Tradition. But people don’t learn it nor is it preached. So it falls into disuse.
I wish Western Catholics would stick with their rich Tradition, and Eastern Catholics would stick to (or be free to keep) their rich traditions, free of Latinizations…So that one could go into a Catholic church and be truly catholic, not Protestant, and into a Roman church and be a truly Western catholic, and that one could enter an Eastern church and truly find an Eastern atmosphere of worship.

On the bright side, Jesus is among his followers and is truly present in every liturgy of every rite, and we get to eat his flesh and drink his blood!! And for those who seek, they shall find. And the gates of Hell will not prevail against his Church! Thanks be to God for that!

Any advice about how I feel? Does anyone else feel this way? Thanks for bearing with me!

God be with you!

P.S. I don’t lean toward one form of the Roman Rite. Often people prefer the EF because
the OF is never conducted with it’s true, traditional, potential. I love both forms.
Also, I’ve never in my life participated in person a Mass in the EF or Divine Liturgy of any kind. So I could be WAY off base…

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Hi, SF.

One thing that I think you’ll find is there are a lot of Catholics on this site who share your interests. You might try checking out the Traditional Catholic group.

Overall, I really don’t know whether people have changed over time since, say, the last generation, in any material way. Perhaps in some contexts there was a greater expectation of certain parts of the behavior, but the hearts have not changed. Perhaps what we’re seeing now is what happens when we let down our appearances, our true attitudes shine through – and it doesn’t always look good.

Please take courage and have confidence that the Holy Spirit is in control to the extent He has to be, and if you can open your ears and heart to Him, you may find out what to do about it. You can neither make God’s plan work nor make it fail. It will work, so try not to be discouraged (in a way, that’s a form of judging I think – you look at things and say, “this is not good”) because you know in your heart that you are home now. Since it is God’s house and the other ragtag people are just as much invited guests as you, it behooves us to be gracious to the others and not come across as judgmental, or they will put up defensive barriers against seeing our point or wanting to share what we find valuable.

Maybe if other people do not share your enthusiasm for the rituals and rites, then I’d say the best thing is to do the “proper thing” yourself, try not to judge others because they need love regardless of if they appear ready to come to the table, or not. That is, do the things the way you know they should be done, but I’d say even inside the Church building during Mass, don’t do things so rigid or “perfect” that you stick out and draw attention to yourself and away from the Eucharist.

Hope that helps.

Alan

 

[Student09]

People don’t fast, (which has slacked off so much in America it’s almost non-existent), people don’t read much of anything that was before before Vatican II, there is a lot of Protestantism (of which I would like to be rid, having just converted from it).

Who are “people”? I fast and read things written before Vatican II and I know other Catholics who do. Yes, some people don’t. That is between them and God and is no doubt largely due to poor catechesis.

I sympathize with your feelings as a convert/revert. Personally, I converted from secularism - and of course it is not fun to see secularism in the Church, either. But that is our fallen world.

We have history. We have a sacred Tradition. But people don’t learn it nor is it preached.

Well, sometimes they do / it is.

P.S. I don’t lean toward one form of the Roman Rite. Often people prefer the EF because
the OF is never conducted with it’s true, traditional, potential. I love both forms.
Also, I’ve never in my life participated in person a Mass in the EF or Divine Liturgy of any kind. So I could be WAY off base…

First of all, it is not true that the OF is never conducted in a traditional way. I have been to very reverent and beautiful OF Masses. They’re hard to find - that’s all.

Second, how do you know you love the EF Mass (you said “both forms”) if you have never been to one?

I think a lot of people feel the way that you do. If we were saints, we would feel differently. We would be more worried about our own shortcomings than about those of others, more concerned about doing God’s will than about getting the kind of Mass that we desired when we converted. Maybe the woman at Mass who holds hands with the others in the pew and doesn’t know what the word “Trinity” refers to is more pleasing to God than I am.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I think a lot of people feel this way. If we were saints, we would feel differently. We would be more worried about our own shortcomings than about those of others. Maybe the woman at Mass who holds hands with the others in the pew and doesn’t know what the word “Trinity” refers to is more pleasing to God than I am.

I think that’s an awesome way to look at it.

Alan

 

[Monica4316]

Hi, I can sort of relate to you… do you live near an FSSP parish? they are in communion with the Pope and faithful to the Church, and they were started by Pope John Paul II… they do all the Sacraments according to the EF. But another thing I really like about their parishes is that they are not modernized, the teaching is not watered down, the homilies are excellent, many faithful people who pray after Mass and do devotions, etc… I attend an FSSP parish and I really like it I think the reason it’s like that is because people tend to attend this type of parish if they practice their faith, whereas in an ordinary parish, you’ll find a whole variety of people. Which is not in itself bad… but I see what you are saying, it’s discouraging sometimes. I’ve also been to Novus Ordo parishes that are very devout as well, - for example the local Basilica. You just need to find the right parish

but in case you don’t… don’t let this discourage you. Read the writings of the Saints… you are not alone. Just go to Mass, receive the Eucharist as often as you can, practice your devotions, etc - work on your relationship with God and try not to be discouraged or notice what others are doing or not doing.

I also agree with Student09. Try to just focus on your own relationship with God. I know how you feel, but don’t let it become a distraction. I think it’s good advice to always remember our own limitations, and not pay attention to those of others. Humility brings us closer to God than anything else above all, be careful about falling into temptations to pride, because the devil is very tricky about this. For example, he might suggest to you like what the pharisee prayed in the parable… “Lord thank you that I am not like them”.
Keep all the beautiful traditional Catholic aspects of the faith, as they are good for the soul, but guard your heart against these kinds of temptations.

God bless

 

[Julian0404]

We all run hot and cold and at times grow weak and disappointed in the effort, and that is not unusual. Throughout the history of the church GOD has found it necessary to bless every age with a spirit of renewal that comes from one or two individuals and inspires the rest of us to get back in the race and shake off our weakness and apathy toward the faith.

I would suggest you find that spirit today for yourself. The one or two that, despite the failure of many, recalls for you the True Faith and True Spirit of JESUS in the Church. For me that is Father Corapi, Scott Hahn, Father Larry Richards, the writing of Mother Teresa and during Lent the re-reading of the CCC. How easily we forget the richness of our scholars.

And return often to the Truth that they express, to refresh your own spirit.

May GOD bless your search.

 

[EmeraldWings]

have you ever tried finding an FSSP mass near you? - www.fssp.com
they also have a book store here - www.fraternitypublications.com
and audio sermons from their parish priests here - www.audiosancto.org

i go to a church owned by the FSSP, and while the mass is wonderful, no matter where you go there’s always something wrong, but it’s always been that way, ever since the first sin of our first parents, we will never escape that as long as we live(on earth), but we can still put it to use, just by enduring it and offering it up, although we should still try to help out when and where we can, but even if things get so bad that we can no longer go to mass(such as when there is persecution) we can still make good use of it, waste no suffering, take everything outside your power as Gods will for you for your own betterment in spirit, because more often than not, we don’t see the benefits we receive from our sufferings until long after they are gone.
although how most Catholics are ignorant of their faith right now is an important issue, don’t let it rob you of your peace, pray for them and help them when you can, but don’t let it anger you, remember that God wants to save their souls much more than you do, and you will help them most just by your good example - being patient, kind, gentle, and humble, and then by cooperating with Gods will,
all those outside gestures and rituals are very very important, but not as important as mercy and charity towards our neighbor, we must not lose sight of the true goal, which is getting to heaven, and taking as many with us as we can.
and all of that can be accomplished merely by practicing one thing - to seek to please God alone in all things.

although i don’t mean to assume you feel angry about all of this, but i guess what i’m trying to say is, just don’t worry, do what you can and that is all you can do, remember that this life is short, and God has placed you in this time for a specific purpose, you are where you are for a reason, and so be at peace, and pray to God for guidance and grace to do His will…although you most certainly should try finding a more traditional mass, because it is very important for us to give God the respect and adoration He deserves, but what i mean is, make the most of where you are in the present, as Saint Alphonsus tells us ‘The past is no longer yours; the future is not yet in your power. You have only the present wherein to do good.’

well, perhaps not the kind of advice you were looking for, but i hope it helps anyways.
take care.

 

[JRKH]

SpiritFire,
Everyone else has already shared the same thoughts as mine so I will limit myself to just a quick comment or two.

First, Welcome Home!! I too am a revert, but mine is from more secularism. I never joined another church group.

Secondly - thank God you are here - - and others like you. We need the (name removed by moderator)ut of converts and reverts desperately and on a number of levels. Holy Mother Church is enriched by your presence.

I too am more conservative and traditional in outlook, but I also see a lot of good in the post Vat II church. To me, the broader the available spiritualites, the better. I was thrilled when the EF was OK’d for use.

I want to encourage you to work in your parish and in your diocese to help further greater respect for tradition and true Catholic spirituality.

Peace
James

 

[SpiritFire]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

I am sorry for dumping my woes and insecurities on you poor people!

I am not trying to label all Catholics who might not be so familiar with good catechism, etc.
I did come across as doing so…my apologies.

In fact, most of this stuff is just what I hear people writing about, not so much my personal experience with Catholicism.

This is my heart: In this age of secularism, profanity, and lukewarm faith I just want to be a genuine Christian, and a fervent Catholic! That is where all of this stems from.

May God richly bless you for your encouragement and advice!

To Student09:

I too attend a parish with (by and large), solemn, reverent liturgies in the OF. The church building is also quite beautiful and we have a world-class Casavant organ.
My experience with the EF has been has been purely video/audio/photographic. However I believe I am rather familiar with it. (At least structurally)
Basically, what I want to say is that I agree with everything in your post.
Thanks also to JRKH and AlanFromWichita!

 

[Student09]

I am sorry for dumping my woes and insecurities on you poor people!

Nah, you’re not dumping - and there is no need to apologize. As I said, I think many people have felt as you have. I know I have. It is good to recognize that the Church is not perfect and that there are problems with it. And then it’s good to remember that we are not in charge - Jesus is - and He knows what He’s doing.

I guessed that you had probably watched TLM Masses on TV. I was kind of teasing you - sorry! These things don’t really come across on the internet.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Nah, you’re not dumping - and there is no need to apologize. As I said, I think many people have felt as you have. I know I have. It is good to recognize that the Church is not perfect and that there are problems with it. And then it’s good to remember that we are not in charge - Jesus is - and He knows what He’s doing.

I guessed that you had probably watched TLM Masses on TV. I was kind of teasing you - sorry! These things don’t really come across on the internet.

I agree, its Gods Church and He knows what He’s doing. When you can’t trust in yourself or others? Trust in the Lord and His will. We live by is mercy alone.

Nobody said it would be easy. Look at the Apostles and the fire in their hearts in such a difficult time. Surely we can do better my brother. They are counting on us. They knew where you were gonna be and when you were gonna be their.

May the Lord be Blessed Forever.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Spiritfire, you may be blessed by starting to visit the website of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, here in the USA. They have a house in Connecticut that I visited while I was vocation seeking, and they are solid. They have a beautiful traditional Mass, and they practice a lot of mortification, even outside of Lent, including the discipline, wearing sandals in spite of cold weather, and great poverty. When I visited them, I found them a truly powerful witness to the living, vital heart of the Catholic faith.

They were also so deeply loving! They were full of love and lived in constant prayer, praying for five hours a day in a concentrated way and praying throughout the day in private and silence.

I know two Californian priests outside of the Franciscans, in my own personal acquaintance, who have, I believe, slept on the floor as part of their penance. I also know Californian Catholics who have blasted themselves with freezing water every night, even during winter when the weather is fifty or sixty degrees. And these people are truly seeking God, and don’t boast about what they’re doing. You only find out when one of them accidentally leaves the faucet on COLD, forgetting to switch it to hot when he’s done, to disguise his penance.

These also are regular Catholics, not members of highly penitential orders. And they are sincerely seeking God with love. I admire their charity and depth of union with Him, manifested during their daily lives in a powerful way.

I have a long way to go in reaching true holiness. Most faithful Catholics in the US are probably not aiming as high as they could or should, in their efforts to become holy and loving. Yet there also are places where there is a lot of genuine appreciation of the richness of our ancient Tradition. I hope the Lord leads you to such a place. I have been so blessed to know such good and holy Catholics.

Try connecting with some of the more traditional religious orders. That’s my recommendation. Opus Dei, the Norbertines, or the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate or the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal. But there are some really solid, good, traditional parishes that aren’t part of religious orders.

Broaden your wings a bit and check places out!