Discouraged Catholic

[julebenn]

You have brought up an interesting point that we might ponder. You say that there are consequences for sinning. What do the protestant religions teach about what the consequences are? I would be interested to hear if you think these sinful people go to heaven or, if not, where do they go? And if they don’t go to heaven, how can they be saved?

Please don’t take this as combative. I have just wondered these things and would like to know more about these concepts.

Maybe we do not tithe, so we run into finincial problems…

“For you hate discipline, and you cast My words behind you.”
**Psalm 50:17 **

“My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD or loathe His reproof.”
**Proverbs 3:11 **

“For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching is light; and reproofs for discipline are the way of life.”
**Proverbs 6:23 **

“A wise son accepts his father’s discipline, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.”
**Proverbs 13:1 **

“Poverty and shame will come to him who neglects discipline, but he who regards reproof will be honored.”
**Proverbs 13:18 **

“Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.”
**Ephesians 6:4 **

“For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.”
**Colossians 2:5 **

“Have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.”
**1 Timothy 4:7 **

“God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.”
**2 Timothy 1:7 **

“All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.”
**Hebrews 12:11 **

“Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.”
**Revelation 3:19 **

“A fool rejects his father’s discipline, but he who regards reproof is sensible.”
**Proverbs 15:5 **

“Grievous punishment is for him who forsakes the way; he who hates reproof will die.”
**Proverbs 15:10 **

“He who neglects discipline despises himself, but he who listens to reproof acquires understanding.”
**Proverbs 15:32 **

“Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it, but the discipline of fools is folly.”
**Proverbs 16:22 **

“Discipline your son while there is hope, and do not desire his death.”
**Proverbs 19:18 **

“Cease listening, my son, to discipline, and you will stray from the words of knowledge.”
**Proverbs 19:27 **

“Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; the rod of discipline will remove it far from him.”
**Proverbs 22:15 **

“Apply your heart to discipline and your ears to words of knowledge.”
**Proverbs 23:12 **

“Do not hold back discipline from the child.”
Proverbs 23:13

 

[scylla]

If anyone believes in Once Saved Always Saved, is there any consequence for sin at all? You still get to heaven so do sins matter?

This is the problem with OSAS.
#1 If there is no consequence then sins don’t matter.
(sin boldly, it just makes Jesus’s sacrifice mean more)
#2 If there is a consequence but you cannot lose your salvation then suicide is the only faithful way to express your faith, as you will be with God sooner.
You will just be disciplined in this life, go for complete happiness
#3 If sin does matter and you can then lose your salvation (you were never saved to begin with) then you don’t really believe in OSAS

In Christ
Scylla

Back to the subject…
I understand I used to go to Calvary Chapel and the activities there are numerous. They are quite an organization, that Chuck Smith really came up with a good idea.

 

[julebenn]

I don’t know what goes on at your church. I was speaking of my OWN experience. Here’s when I realized that I needed to get OUT of there. My children were discussing Brittney Spears and how she was a “Christian.” I said, “Well that may be, but she not a very good one. She get married, gets divorced, gets married again…(now divorced again) prances around almost naked on stage - sings trashy songs… etc.” They said, “Doesn’t matter what she does… so long as she “accepted” Jesus when she was a kid… she’ll automatically go to heaven.”

Nope. Not true - it’s certainly NOT what the Bible teaches.

But OSAS is for another thread…

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. John 10.27-28

My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. John 10.29

 

[ricko]

I was a Catholic since day one I never did understand their doctrine, it was always contradictory! When I found the Lord or more likely when when the chose me, I left everything about the Catholic Church’s teachings, including the Catholic Church, they’re all man made rules and they continue to make rules as they go along.

Sorry to hear that you made such a decision. Perhaps you would care to start some new threads on these “man-made rules” and “contradictory” teachings. I’ve been a Catholic since day one also and I am not aware of such things.

 

[mary_bobo]

You have brought up an interesting point that we might ponder. You say that there are consequences for sinning. What do the protestant religions teach about what the consequences are? I would be interested to hear if you think these sinful people go to heaven or, if not, where do they go? And if they don’t go to heaven, how can they be saved?

Please don’t take this as combative. I have just wondered these things and would like to know more about these concepts.

Maybe we do not tithe, so we run into finincial problems…

“For you hate discipline, and you cast My words behind you.”
**Psalm 50:17 **

“My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD or loathe His reproof.”
**Proverbs 3:11 **

“For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching is light; and reproofs for discipline are the way of life.”
**Proverbs 6:23 **

“A wise son accepts his father’s discipline, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.”
**Proverbs 13:1 **

“Poverty and shame will come to him who neglects discipline, but he who regards reproof will be honored.”
**Proverbs 13:18 **

“Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.”
**Ephesians 6:4 **

“For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.”
**Colossians 2:5 **

“Have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.”
**1 Timothy 4:7 **

“God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.”
**2 Timothy 1:7 **

“All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.”
**Hebrews 12:11 **

“Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.”
**Revelation 3:19 **

“A fool rejects his father’s discipline, but he who regards reproof is sensible.”
**Proverbs 15:5 **

“Grievous punishment is for him who forsakes the way; he who hates reproof will die.”
**Proverbs 15:10 **

“He who neglects discipline despises himself, but he who listens to reproof acquires understanding.”
**Proverbs 15:32 **

“Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it, but the discipline of fools is folly.”
**Proverbs 16:22 **

“Discipline your son while there is hope, and do not desire his death.”
**Proverbs 19:18 **

“Cease listening, my son, to discipline, and you will stray from the words of knowledge.”
**Proverbs 19:27 **

“Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; the rod of discipline will remove it far from him.”
**Proverbs 22:15 **

“Apply your heart to discipline and your ears to words of knowledge.”
**Proverbs 23:12 **

“Do not hold back discipline from the child.”
Proverbs 23:13

This does not answer my questions. Don’t understand the references above. Can you not answer my questions simply. Don’t see where some of these bible quotes refer to what I asked. Sorry.

 

[carol_marie]

I was a Catholic since day one I never did understand their doctrine, it was always contradictory! When I found the Lord or more likely when when the chose me, I left everything about the Catholic Church’s teachings, including the Catholic Church, they’re all man made rules and they continue to make rules as they go along.

But yet here you are… on a Catholic forum.

Admit it… there’s a little voice deep in your soul calling you back…

That’s the Holy Spirit friend.

 

[namguy69]

If anyone believes in Once Saved Always Saved, is there any consequence for sin at all? You still get to heaven so do sins matter?

This is the problem with OSAS.
#1 If there is no consequence then sins don’t matter.
(sin boldly, it just makes Jesus’s sacrifice mean more)
#2 If there is a consequence but you cannot lose your salvation then suicide is the only faithful way to express your faith, as you will be with God sooner.
You will just be disciplined in this life, go for complete happiness
#3 If sin does matter and you can then lose your salvation (you were never saved to begin with) then you don’t really believe in OSAS

In Christ
Scylla

Back to the subject…
I understand I used to go to Calvary Chapel and the activities there are numerous. They are quite an organization, that Chuck Smith really came up with a good idea.

If one believes in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and has truly burried this in their heart no one can take that from you. Therefore one cannot loose their salvation, absoultely no way.

 

[scylla]

“A cruce salus”

Good stuff, -namguy69-

Catholics affirm that at every Mass that is why we are required to have a crucifix there to remember what Jesus did for us, the salvific work of the cross.

All our prayers all our lives mean less than the work of Jesus on the Cross that is why the Mass is a bringing to the present, the one work that matters. Jesus on the Cross.
That is true worship my friend, saying, experiencing and accepting Jesus dying on the Cross for us.
That one sacrifice is all we need and we Catholics remember it daily.

Or else it is just a guy giving a sermon, which isn’t worship.

Why don’t you PM me, I left the Catholic Church out of High School, I went through all the Sacraments and CCD yet I left.

I came back a couple years ago and would love to talk to you.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[julebenn]

Sin has consequences…We are clearly warned, “Be sure your sin will find you out” Num 32:23

I’m sure your familier with the verse

The apostle Paul warns us, “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap”

1.First, sin, by its very nature, is always accompanied by certain painful consequences, and the sin itself determines the nature of the consequences. It does not matter if we are saints or sinners. There are unavoidable consequences. That is the law of life.

2.First, sin, by its very nature, is always accompanied by certain painful consequences, and the sin itself determines the nature of the consequences. It does not matter if we are saints or sinners. There are unavoidable consequences. That is the law of life. alao He further encourages us by reminding us that "all discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness

If we can lose our salvation:

1. It takes away our joy(always wondering if I’m saved or not)
2. IT leaves us with doubt deprives us of the peace our Lord
3. How can we servre God if I have a a nagging sense of guilt, is he pleased with me?
   4.Am I sorry enough for my sins?

Ephesians1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Romans8:35, 38-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? . . . I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sorry for the long post…

 

[santaro75]

I am a cradle catholic who left the church for awhile to attend a non-denom church. I learned alot from my friends at that church but I was drawn back by the Eucharist and my love of Mary, however, I am having a hard time with the lack of support I feel for my children at the church. At the non-denom church the programs were Amazing and the children learned so much. I have searched and have yet to find any programs that reach out to our children like that. I have another friend who I am trying to bring to the faith and this is her biggest and only real concern. I live in Livonia Michigan, any suggestions.
God Bless

you are not alone…trust me. There aren’t many programs for single adults either.

I think that the clergy need to not be so shy about asking for money. And i think they can get it if they clearly show where it is going and how it is going to benefit the congregation.

Good programs take money and QUALIFIED people to run them.

 

[scylla]

julebenn
So your view is that sin has consequences in suffering for us that cleanses us.
Is this true?
Why not suicide?

In Christ
Scylla

 

[julebenn]

julebenn
So your view is that sin has consequences in suffering for us that cleanses us.
Is this true?
Why not suicide?

In Christ

Yes, Christ usese suffering to
to get our attention, develop righteousness and maturity in us,
to prune us, to teach us obedience, to teach us to trust Him

to teach us to depend continually on His grace and goodness, to manifest Christ’s life and character in us also to purify our hearts, to teach us to give thanks in everything,
o prevent pride in our life, to reveal the evil nature of mankind and the righteous judgment of God

As for Suicide

If the person who committed suicide at some time accepted Jesus, he is forgiven. Absolute assurance of forgiveness is found in Romans 8:1 If a person has ever taken that step and received Christ as Savior, nothing can alter the truth that, as children of God, we are forgiven. Even when we rebel against God, He is faithful to keep His Word.

I believe Gos’s grace is sufficient and that forgiveness is available even in the case of suicide.

Evan in our weakness God’s grace is sufficient, and that is our hope when life becomes intolerable.

 

[WretchlikeMe]

Greetings ALL brothers and sisters Catholic and Protestant…

Why do we quibble about the small details of our faith? We are at war with an enemy who loves to watch us fight amongst ourselves. He laughes at every barb and jab.
We, as CHRISTIANS, need each other badly in this day.

Do you love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul?

Do you accept our Lord Jesus as your saviour and only path to salvation?

Do you reject satan and his lies?

If you answered yes to the above then you are my brother(or sister) in Christ and I would LOVE your help and continued prayers for delivering this world from the grip of the enemy. My children need you.....When that job is complete let's sit at the banquet table of the Lord and discuss scriptural differences.

As for the original question, I too am a little bummed hat Catholic services as a whole do not provide more programs for children but, then again I do not go to mass to be entertained. I leave all my needs for stimulation at the door. I can teach my children about the Lord in a fun and exciting manner when I get home. I can Switch on my worship radio on my way home to hear some great modern pop music that glorifies God. I love the Catholic Church because it is a serious training ground that forces me to be more disciplined in the Lord. That’s just me, I am inherently lazy and I need it.
We Christians as a whole, need to stop looking to our house of worship as a resource for clean spiritual entertainment.

Please forgive me for my longwinded response, this is my first post.

Please stop judging eachother and let’s get focused on the task at hand, defeating the one who would take us all out with him…

IF GOD IS FOR US, WHO CAN OPPOSE US!!

 

[scylla]

So the only logical and obedient thing to do is commit suicide, since we suffer and are not in Heaven now we just accept Jesus then commit suicide to be with Him.
If heaven is the best and what we are made for then we should accept Him and go to Him if sin wont keep us from Him.

Catholics believe you cannot be taken from God but can reject Him as we have free will, even after we accept Him.

In Christ
Scylla

I only respond because I want everyone to enjoy the beauty of salvation through Christ which is found in the Catholic Church. Follow Jesus and trust in Him and open your heart, Jesus wants us to be one.

 

[santaro75]

If a person has ever taken that step and received Christ as Savior, nothing can alter the truth that, as children of God, we are forgiven. Even when we rebel against God, He is faithful to keep His Word.

Rom11:22 "Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindess. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[scylla]

Uhhh Santaro,

I would never believe that, that was posted by someone else.

I believe what the Bible says and agree that we can reject God, we are not meat robots.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[WretchlikeMe]

True, we are free to choose even to our own peril, but we must also acknowledge that all rules and commandments in scripture are for OUR obedience, not God’s, the beauty is that the Lord can choose to bless whom he wishes as he wishes without having to answer to anyone. Only the Lord knows what truly lies in he hearts of men…

 

[namguy69]

“A cruce salus”

Good stuff, -namguy69-

Catholics affirm that at every Mass that is why we are required to have a crucifix there to remember what Jesus did for us, the salvific work of the cross.

All our prayers all our lives mean less than the work of Jesus on the Cross that is why the Mass is a bringing to the present, the one work that matters. Jesus on the Cross.
That is true worship my friend, saying, experiencing and accepting Jesus dying on the Cross for us.
That one sacrifice is all we need and we Catholics remember it daily.

Or else it is just a guy giving a sermon, which isn’t worship.

Why don’t you PM me, I left the Catholic Church out of High School, I went through all the Sacraments and CCD yet I left.

I came back a couple years ago and would love to talk to you.

In Christ
Scylla

It’s not so much Catholics remember that Christ died for our redemtion it’s all the 100’s of other ’ things ’ that matter, i.e, praying to any number of endless saints, Mary, etc.

I also went through all the Sacraments, I had no choice I was just a kid. I could type all day long and explain to you why ‘I Ifelt compelled’ to leave the Catholic Church but it would be much, much too long. We have a ’ selfish ’ Saviour and rightfully so, we don’t need to confess our sins to anyone by Christ Himself. The Catholics believe in confession, going through a priest to obtain through Christ forgiveness for our sins, it’s not true. I’m not here to knock anyones beliefs I’m expressing what’s written in the Bible, the KJV Bible.

In my past there are stories, things I did, very bad sins half of which I can’t even remember and I surely couldn’t give testmony to them in this format…but I’ve been forgiven and that’s what really matters. Please don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not on no head trip such as the Hollyness Penticostals ( forguve spelling! ) nothing like that. i don’t jump around, dance in the spirit as they do…their doctrine is a might of course If you wish you may obtain my email address and I will discuss ’ things ’ in deapth:thumbsup: I don’t much about talking on forums, PM me and we’ll talk

 

[santaro75]

Uhhh Santaro,

I would never believe that, that was posted by someone else.

I believe what the Bible says and agree that we can reject God, we are not meat robots.

God Bless
Scylla

oops it was supposed to be julebenn’s quote. But i think you had a quote in his post and it got screwed up.

 

[santaro75]

The Catholics believe in confession, going through a priest to obtain through Christ forgiveness for our sins, it’s not true. I’m not here to knock anyones beliefs I’m expressing what’s written in the Bible, the KJV Bible.

“Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.21 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”

What did the father send Hiim to do? What has he sent his apostles to do?

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. 23Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
Why give his apostles the power to forgive sins if he didn’t intend for them to hear confessions of sin?