Discouraged in home parish

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friarpark

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We are so discouraged about the music and other things at Mass in our home parish that we now go 2-3 times a month to a nearby city where, in my sons words “they do things right”. We went as a family there last night and I went this morning to our home parish and I cannot get through Mass without a felling of discouragement and anger. I talked to the liturgist and I have had discussions with our pastor and it goes nowhere because most of the people in the parish likes things this way. I had emailed Fr Richard Simon (Relevant Radios Fr. Know-it-all) about this and he suggested that I find a different parish. But I grew up here!! I find it offensive that I should have to be the one to make a change when I’m not the one doing anything wrong other than not getting angry thoughts out of my head during Mass. I lector and am on the the Council at our home parish which makes things harder. Any words of encouragement would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening.
 
friarpark said:
We are so discouraged about the music and other things at Mass in our home parish that we now go 2-3 times a month to a nearby city where, in my sons words “they do things right”. We went as a family there last night and I went this morning to our home parish and I cannot get through Mass without a felling of discouragement and anger. I talked to the liturgist and I have had discussions with our pastor and it goes nowhere because most of the people in the parish likes things this way. I had emailed Fr Richard Simon (Relevant Radios Fr. Know-it-all) about this and he suggested that I find a different parish. But I grew up here!! I find it offensive that I should have to be the one to make a change when I’m not the one doing anything wrong other than not getting angry thoughts out of my head during Mass. I lector and am on the the Council at our home parish which makes things harder. Any words of encouragement would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening.
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Keep in mind that Jesus had some problems in his hometown as well. ( although a bit different than yours). I think you should take the advice from fr Simon and head next door even if it causes pain. The fact that your parish has a liturgist is very telling. Normally they have little theoligical training and are self imposed experts on liturgy when 99 percent of them got their jobs becaiuse they are good musicians. On a side not I wonder if you know what a Lector is?
 
If there are actual violations of the liturgical rubrics as specified in the GIRM and other documents, it is something to bring up with the Pastoral Council and the Pastor. If corrections are not made, you should then notify your bishop and if necessary the Congregation of Divine Worship.

If it is a matter that you simply do not like the music choices or other aspects of the liturgy that are legitimately within the rubrics and the Pastor’s discretion, well then I think you pray for some acceptance that your way is not the only way.
 
friarpark said:
Pretty sure I do, what are you trying to tell me?
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A lector is a person who has been instituted as such through minor orders. Unless you have been instituted, you are not a lector. You are a reader.
 
Dicerning said:
Keep in mind that Jesus had some problems in his hometown as well. ( although a bit different than yours). I think you should take the advice from fr Simon and head next door even if it causes pain. The fact that your parish has a liturgist is very telling. Normally they have little theoligical training and are self imposed experts on liturgy when 99 percent of them got their jobs becaiuse they are good musicians. On a side not I wonder if you know what a Lector is?
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How insulting and unkind! “Normally” ?!! Not to mention you go and question the OP about knowing what a lector is…yikes! Not at all helpful Dicerning!

To Friarpark…I understand what you are going through. I’ve been there, done that… so to speak. I try and stay focussed on the Eucharist and Christ’s presence in the gathered people,the priest presider, in his Word and of course the consecrated bread and wine. This helps me when I can’t make change happen. By the way…I’m a liturgist. I studied for years. I’m trained in not only liturgy but theology and ecclesial matters.
 
1ke said:
If there are actual violations of the liturgical rubrics as specified in the GIRM and other documents, it is something to bring up with the Pastoral Council and the Pastor. If corrections are not made, you should then notify your bishop and if necessary the Congregation of Divine Worship.

If it is a matter that you simply do not like the music choices or other aspects of the liturgy that are legitimately within the rubrics and the Pastor’s discretion, well then I think you pray for some acceptance that your way is not the only way.
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Could be a bit of both. We have just purchased the new Gather hymnal, the songs that are used from there do not sound like sacred music, the organ is only used when the liturgist is not there. It would be easier to accept if the organ was used for the ordinary parts of Mass (Gloria, Holy Holy etc). I have had people refer to the songs at Mass as being ‘caberet’ styled songs. We seldom use the Responsoral Psalms from the missal but rather the alternative psalms from the front of the Gather hymnal, and these seemed to be so dumbed down. The parts of Mass that Fr. had memorized before the change are still being done the old way, the blessing at the end of Mass is “May Almighty God Bless us all…” instead of the form of blessing that’s in the missal. These are the ones I can recall of the top of my head.
 
friarpark said:
Could be a bit of both. We have just purchased the new Gather hymnal, the songs that are used from there do not sound like sacred music, the organ is only used when the liturgist is not there. It would be easier to accept if the organ was used for the ordinary parts of Mass (Gloria, Holy Holy etc). I have had people refer to the songs at Mass as being ‘caberet’ styled songs. We seldom use the Responsoral Psalms from the missal but rather the alternative psalms from the front of the Gather hymnal, and these seemed to be so dumbed down. The parts of Mass that Fr. had memorized before the change are still being done the old way, the blessing at the end of Mass is “May Almighty God Bless us all…” instead of the form of blessing that’s in the missal. These are the ones I can recall of the top of my head.
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I am truly sorry about the bolded and I will see if I can say a rosary for you. I am serious. Like, really serious. No offense to “liturgists” but it seems, as per conversation on this board and on blogs, that they do a lot more harm than good as they are generally inadequately formed.

The “May Almighty God bless us all…” is actually a rather serious thing, if I may say so. This is so because the priest is therefore not invoking the power of God but is essentially asking God in a hopeful manner. It is not a priestly blessing.
 
I may be a dumb-dumb here, but what is a liturigist. I’ve heard of a “music liturigist”, which is the person who determines the appropriate hymns, responses, and generally organizes the parish musicians to lead the music at the Masses. What, other than this, does the “liturigist” do? Order the flowers? Schedule the readers and altar boys? Isn’t the rest of the liturgy pretty much set in stone? I’m just wondering what we’re talking about here.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I am truly sorry about the bolded and I will see if I can say a rosary for you. I am serious. Like, really serious. No offense to “liturgists” but it seems, as per conversation on this board and on blogs, that they do a lot more harm than good as they are generally inadequately formed.

The “May Almighty God bless us all…” is actually a rather serious thing, if I may say so. This is so because the priest is therefore not invoking the power of God but is essentially asking God in a hopeful manner. It is not a priestly blessing.
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I agree that the Gather hymnal stinks. It seems like every third hymn in there is set to the tune of an Irish drinking song! However, I don’t think it’s the end of the world. The hymnal does contain most of the “normal hymns” as well and I know of several churches who use it for the hymns but rarely use their settings of the psalms and acclaimations. (Which are the worst part, in my opinion.)
 
Anna_Claire said:
How insulting and unkind! “Normally” ?!! Not to mention you go and question the OP about knowing what a lector is…yikes! Not at all helpful Dicerning!

.
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My questioning of the lector issue guided my response to the OP. if the OP was indeed an instituted lector then he needs to follow the bishop and stay atnthenparish he was assigned to. I have a degree in systematics and pastoral theology.

Congrats on your academic accomplishments and being the exception to the norm when it comes to liturgists. You seem to be quite passionate to say the least regarding your role as a liturgist. A role I think should be left to a cleric. Just like the holy father does.
 
Allegra said:
I may be a dumb-dumb here, but what is a liturigist. I’ve heard of a “music liturigist”, which is the person who determines the appropriate hymns, responses, and generally organizes the parish musicians to lead the music at the Masses. What, other than this, does the “liturigist” do? Order the flowers? Schedule the readers and altar boys? Isn’t the rest of the liturgy pretty much set in stone? I’m just wondering what we’re talking about here.
Click to expand...
Liturgist is a mostly made-up title that some churches give to random people who do various things, like “create” liturgies (usually involving music and coordination) and stuff like that. However, there are certainly “liturgists” out there who are more than qualified (for example, every priest!) and these people generally have degrees in theology or something like that.
Allegra said:
I agree that the Gather hymnal stinks. It seems like every third hymn in there is set to the tune of an Irish drinking song! However, I don’t think it’s the end of the world. The hymnal does contain most of the “normal hymns” as well and I know of several churches who use it for the hymns but rarely use their settings of the psalms and acclaimations. (Which are the worst part, in my opinion.)
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The old Gather wasn’t too bad but this new one is HORRIBLE. You can read the table of contents online.
 
When we keep in mind that all of Sunday is the Lord’s day, it’s easier to keep Sunday mass in perspective.

I understand your ties with your parish and the mounting frustration you experience with the way things are done, but it sounds as if you’ve grown “apart” from your church and that it no longer “serves” as the place where you can wholeheartedly worship and praise God. That being said, there’s no harm in gong to or finding another Catholic church for Sunday mass because ultimately, it’s all about praising and worshipping the Lord on His day!

I also encourage you to spend the rest of Sunday in praising and worshipping the Lord in the beauty of His creation, especially in the love of the family that you’re blessed with. I think that you will find this is what God meant when He asked for one day in which to praise and glorify Him.

God Bless
 
1ke said:
If there are actual violations of the liturgical rubrics as specified in the GIRM and other documents, it is something to bring up with the Pastoral Council and the Pastor. If corrections are not made, you should then notify your bishop and if necessary the Congregation of Divine Worship.

If it is a matter that you simply do not like the music choices or other aspects of the liturgy that are legitimately within the rubrics and the Pastor’s discretion, well then I think you pray for some acceptance that your way is not the only way.
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This is excellent advice. If your home parish is simply doing things differently than you like, there is no real reason to change. In fact, it might be good for you (and your family) to learn to be humble in this regard. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with attending Mass at another parish. We can attend at any parish, as long as we get to Mass each week.
 
friarpark said:
Could be a bit of both. We have just purchased the new Gather hymnal, the songs that are used from there do not sound like sacred music, the organ is only used when the liturgist is not there. It would be easier to accept if the organ was used for the ordinary parts of Mass (Gloria, Holy Holy etc). I have had people refer to the songs at Mass as being ‘caberet’ styled songs. We seldom use the Responsoral Psalms from the missal but rather the alternative psalms from the front of the Gather hymnal, and these seemed to be so dumbed down. The parts of Mass that Fr. had memorized before the change are still being done the old way, the blessing at the end of Mass is “May Almighty God Bless us all…” instead of the form of blessing that’s in the missal. These are the ones I can recall of the top of my head.
Click to expand...
If there are actual abuses at this parish, you should attend often enough to document them. Then speak to the pastor (did you say you’d done that?) and see if those issues are corrected. If the pastor cannot or does not correct actual abuses, than report the parish to your bishop. Since you are on the parish council, you should have access to the pastor and some leverage to help him make the necessary changes.
 
Dicerning said:
My questioning of the lector issue guided my response to the OP. if the OP was indeed an instituted lector then he needs to follow the bishop and stay atnthenparish he was assigned to. I have a degree in systematics and pastoral theology.

Congrats on your academic accomplishments and being the exception to the norm when it comes to liturgists. You seem to be quite passionate to say the least regarding your role as a liturgist. A role I think should be left to a cleric. Just like the holy father does.
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Not sure where you live but in my area I don’t know of any parish that has instituted lectors. I think the OP would know that he was assigned or not and would have stated it. Your comment came across as quite arrogant.
I am a respected liturgist since 1997. This ministry has transformed my life. Think before you make insults about those who serve the Lord and each other. By the way…clerics come to me with questions…so don’t go there.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
If there are actual abuses at this parish, you should attend often enough to document them. Then speak to the pastor (did you say you’d done that?) and see if those issues are corrected. If the pastor cannot or does not correct actual abuses, than report the parish to your bishop. Since you are on the parish council, you should have access to the pastor and some leverage to help him make the necessary changes.
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I have been trying to ‘nudge’ him in the right direction in our conversations about whether the Mass is primarily a meal or a sacrifice. He has mentioned that he would like o remodel our church building into a Post-Vatican II building. I’ve been trying to tell him that the pre-Vatican buildings are actually also the post-Vatican II buildings. But there’s only so much I can do before I turn into the ones no one will listen to. You know, those ‘crazy’ Catholics. I continue to support my parish financially, and attend daily Mass when I can, but most often attend at the other parish because my boys deserve better.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Liturgist is a mostly made-up title that some churches give to random people who do various things, like “create” liturgies (usually involving music and coordination) and stuff like that. However, there are certainly “liturgists” out there who are more than qualified (for example, every priest!) and these people generally have degrees in theology or something like that.

The old Gather wasn’t too bad but this new one is HORRIBLE. You can read the table of contents online.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I guess I’ve never heard of that before. Sometimes there is a liturgy commitee, especially for a special Mass like the Easter Vigil, if there are lots of things to coordinate. (decorations, music, catecumens, holy water, multiple readings, etc.) Likewise, most churches need a “music liturgist” in order to make sure the music is appropriate for the Mass and to organize the musicians. Of course, there are some churches who have a priest that just has them sing the same five hymns that the pianist knows how to play at every Mass. I guess this is what some people call “good enough”. I would argue, however, that the dignity and beauty of the Mass is preseved by a well-trained music liturgist who researches the best new music as well as recalling the best of our centuries of Catholic musical tradition. An effective music liturgist takes the time choose music that is appropriate for each part of the Mass and that emphasises the readings for the day. They also play an important role in creating appropriate opportunities for parishoners to participate more fully in the Mass. For example, bringing that lady who only makes it to Mass once every two months into the choir, and thus encouraging her to be there every week. I certainly hope that those who voice disdain for “liturgists” are not referring to these invaluable individuals.
 
Anna_Claire said:
Not sure where you live but in my area I don’t know of any parish that has instituted lectors. I think the OP would know that he was assigned or not and would have stated it. Your comment came across as quite arrogant.
I am a respected liturgist since 1997. This ministry has transformed my life. Think before you make insults about those who serve the Lord and each other. By the way…clerics come to me with questions…so don’t go there.
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Any deacon candidate eventually becomes a lector approx 2 years prior to ordination. Perhaps your diocese doesn’t have a formation program. My diocese currently has 42 lectors in various stages. There is no such thing as a liturgist in my diocese and we seem to get by very fine. My experience with people who self designate themselves as liturgist tend to fancy their perceived status in the church as a position of power which at times manifests itself when they say things like “clerics come to me for advice”

I stand by my opinion in my original reply. I hope that you are not as reactionary to enquiring catholic as you were with my original post. Something I learned in pastoral theology was to be aware of our insecurities (we all have em) when we choose to. Engage discussion.
God bless and keep up the good work as a lay minister.
 
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