Discouraged today

[Church_Militant]

Michael C:

Where have you been I thought you’d be first to reply to this thread.It’s almost always the moral issues. I find the examples brought up are always to the extreme also.

LOL…Yup the moral issues are almost always the “excuses”.

 

[OhioBob]

Michael C:

Hey Bob, on your way down from Ohio to Ave Maria, Florida stop by NY. Make sure there’s enough room for my 4 kids,my wife and me.

I need a bigger van.

 

[Didi]

I struggle with this as well! I am the only one of four children still in the Catholic Church, and I seriously considered leaving twice in my lifetime, before God answered my prayer to “show me where you want me to be!” Boy, did He, but that’s another story!

When I first became on fire about my faith, I wanted everyone to know the Truth (as we all do) but sometimes got too defensive about it, sometimes too self-righteous (forgetting it wasn’t that long ago that I didn’t “get it” either). Sometimes I still feel the hair on my neck raising…

Now I try a softer approach. I don’t water anything down. When my sister visits, my family still prays together and asks for the prayers of the saints, etc. I can tell when she’s uncomfortable or doesn’t want to participate, but we forge ahead anyway. If she asks a question, I start off by trying to answer it in a more personal tone instead of showing her where the teaching is in the bible or catechism. If she’s genuinely interested after my personal approach, then I back it up with the Scriptures and catechism.

Example:
She says “I don’t understand why you pray to the saints. We can just go directly to Jesus.”
I say “Wow, if there’s one thing I’ve learned over the past four years in dealing with chronic illness, it’s that I rely on the prayers of other people. I know you and your family have been praying for me, and you’ve asked others to pray for me as well. I believe in the power of prayer to get me through. It’s the same for me when I ask our brothers and sisters in heaven to pray for me. We are still family, still connected just separated by the thin veil between heaven and earth. They are right there in the presence of Jesus and want nothing more than to see all of us join them in heaven. So I ask them to pray for me just as I ask you. I figure I need all the prayer I can get!”

She didn’t have a comeback for that. Partly because I made it personal – how I feel about my faith and how I approach it. It’s harder for people to attack you personally than it is to attack the Church as an institution (sometimes Whom they see as an enemy).

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Jadesfire20:

I believe its St. Justin Martyr

I often ask St. Thomas Aquinas for help.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Jadesfire20:

I believe its St. Justin Martyr

and St. Thomas Aquinas, and St. Catherine of Alexandria

 

[Tinkerbell]

I also get a little discourage with my ability to defend my faith also. After the person leaves I always can think of so many things I should have said. I went through this experience with my son who was thinking of leaving the church after a couple of Protestants told him how awful the Catholic Church was. We had many, many dicussions on the subject. I didn’t think I was getting anywhere so I told him I could not discuss religion with him anymore that I would just pray for him that God would lead him where he needs to be. I guess my prayers are working better because he is attending mass again and will have his new baby Baptized into the Catholic Church. Thank you Jesus!
He feels the Catholic Church is the right church but still has some questions. So I’m still praying for him that God will guide him home.
I guess we need to hang in there and do the best we can with the gift we have.

 

[mercygate]

Tinkerbell:

I guess my prayers are working better because he is attending mass again and will have his new baby Baptized into the Catholic Church. Thank you Jesus!
He feels the Catholic Church is the right church but still has some questions. So I’m still praying for him that God will guide him home.
I guess we need to hang in there and do the best we can with the gift we have.

Patrick Madrid says that when this happens in a family, the Lord is trying to get two for one. Make it your job to brush up on the particular questions your son has so that you can answer them patiently and correctly. Even those of us who consider ourselves to be well-catechized can use a re-take when we hear questions posed in different ways. Your new expertise will make you more relaxed and more enthusiastic about sharing the good news.

 

[jrabs]

Tinkerbell:

I guess we need to hang in there and do the best we can with the gift we have.

I think you are right about using the gifts we have in our own way. I cannot imagine that I’ll ever be a skilled apologist. Yet I find people come to me to discus things that they cannot discus with others.

One lady at work knows I am Catholic and we have talked at length about faith related topics. I have invited her to daily mass with me on days when she is stressed out. While she declines the offer - I gave her a rosary in return with written instructions. She then told me a few days later that I am the only person she feels she can talk about God and faith to. Maybe that’s all I am supposed to do. Just be there at this time in her life.

Maybe that is how we are to use our gifts. Just someone to chat with and listen to. I feel that is every bit as important as being a skilled apologist. God made us different for a reason - and all are necessary in His economy.

Your gift may be listening and living a great Catholic life for people to look at and emulate at some point in time.

 

[mercygate]

I think it is important to remember that everything we do, every witness we make, matters – for better or for worse. and 999 times out of 1000 we will never know how we have affected someone else.

Twenty years from now, somebody might say, “There was a woman at work who gave me a rosary, and I didn’t think about it for 15 years but . . . .” and that will have been the turning point. Leave it all to the Holy Spirit. His timeline is longer than ours.

 

[Michael_C]

I’m glad I started this thread because it has brought one important thing to light. Regardless of how I veiw the way I handle questions thrown at me, the fact is, friends and family come to me with questions and challenges and I should be thankful for the opportunity to defend our faith and share the Gospel. Thank you to everyone.

 

[jimmy]

When I talk and debate about religion I can’t seem to get my words out how I want. Its like they get caught in my throught. Thinking on the spot is not my greatest gift either.

 

[wcknight]

jimmy:

When I talk and debate about religion I can’t seem to get my words out how I want. Its like they get caught in my throught. Thinking on the spot is not my greatest gift either.

Whenever I get into these things, I always pause first and ask the Holy Spirit to lead the way. I know what I believe and whatever comes to mind will be my argument for that moment.

I read up on the saints and so much of their lives are arguments in themselves for the ligitimacy of the Church. I love the story of St Anthony who when confronted by protestants ridiculing him about the real presence of the Holy Eucharist, got so frustrated, that he turned to a lake/river, and proclaimed 'if you won’t listen to me, then I will teach the fishes instead". The fish lined up by size poking their heads above the water and the protestants were totally dumbfounded. That must have been quite a sight.

wc

 

[Tinkerbell]

mercygate:

Patrick Madrid says that when this happens in a family, the Lord is trying to get two for one. Make it your job to brush up on the particular questions your son has so that you can answer them patiently and correctly. Even those of us who consider ourselves to be well-catechized can use a re-take when we hear questions posed in different ways. Your new expertise will make you more relaxed and more enthusiastic about sharing the good news.

I believe this statement to be true. Since I was a cradle Catholic it was like I was in the automatic mode. You kind of forget why you do certain things, so this experince really has me brushing up on why I believe what I do.
One day talking to my son he said he agreed that the Catholic Church was the first church. I said the bible says the gates of hell will not prevail against his church. He said they had because of all the bad things that have happened in the church. I responded with …So are you calling Jesus a liar? He could not say anything. So I hope that was a little seed I planted.

 

[Didi]

Tinkerbell:

One day talking to my son he said he agreed that the Catholic Church was the first church. I said the bible says the gates of hell will not prevail against his church. He said they had because of all the bad things that have happened in the church. I responded with …So are you calling Jesus a liar? He could not say anything. So I hope that was a little seed I planted.

Sometimes people understand this quote as looking at every person in the Church and that sin will not enter into their lives, which is preposterous because we are all sinners.

The Catholic Church, the True Church that Jesus founded, will never crumble as a whole because we have His promise.

And when you think about it, who better for the devil to go after than one of God’s holy priests – the ones who bring us Jesus’ very Body and Blood?

We must pray for our priests and for our Holy Mother Church!

 

[SusanL]

As far as converting others, I have taken on a new theory (for what its worth).

Do you remember your pre-Civil War history? Runaway slaves used to run to “underground railroad” stops on their way to freedom. At each stop, a family would feed them, hide them and just generally help them for that time until they could make it to the next stop. The family never knew if that slave ever made it to freedom but they did what they could at the time.

I figure that I am one of those “stops.” This “slave” is coming to me for help in whatever form it takes. I might be nothing but a good Catholic witness. The person then takes this information/impression to the next stop that God leads him to. God builds on each one of us. We contribute a puzzle piece and God builds the picture.

I am a convert now for 3 years and can say that a lot of people contributed to my conversion over a span of at least 10 years. I hope this helps and gives you peace.

 

[Maccabees]

How in the world is the catholic teaching on birth control similar to the JW"s and the no blood transfusion rule?

The catholic church teaching on artificial birth control obeys the natural law and the constant teaching of the christian church even protestants until 1930.

THE JW"S doctrine is a peculiar annomally known only to this quasi christian sect it has no founding in historical christianity but the opinion of one sect out of thousands of sects that are sepearte from the one true church which teaching has never changed on birth control.
Frankly your uncle is already Lutherna in his heart. HE put himself above the Pope and the church. That is what a protestant does. He just happens to like the surrounding where he is at should that ever change he will bolt since he’s around for the windowdressing only. This is kinda like a person who marries a woman for her looks since he does not love the whole person when her looks and exterior change he will bolt as does not love the essence of the woman. A good catholic is married to the bride of Christ which is the catholic church.

 

[scylla]

I also know how it is, it is very difficult to stay calm and lovingly share the truth. I said before in another thread, I try to keep 1st Peter 3:15 in my head. It is such a great passage.

"Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope,

but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame."

Just need to keep planting those seeds by our conduct and gentle words if they allow it.

 

[Tietjen]

Michael C:

For those of you that know me on these forums you know I come from a non-catholic background. I often have to defend the Catholic faith against non- catholic relatives. Last night I was with a relative I haven’t seen in a long time. My wife and mother-in-law always tell me how involved he is with his church and what a devoted catholic he is. He told me how honored he was to be a eucharistic minister. He then told me that if it wasn’t for his local parish he would be a Lutheran. I was shocked. I told him there were differences in beliefs. Unprepared, I then fell into the trap most catholics fall into. He rattled off a question asking if I believe only catholics go to heaven? And then immediately afterwards he states he disagreed with the Pope on contraception . The trap being that I answered his questions in rapid fire form rather then addressing each subject thoroughly. He compared our beliefs about contraception to JWs beliefs in blood transfusions……*?Don’t ask, I’m still befuddled on that one. My problem is I fight passionately for my faith and I always scare the fish away. I discuss my faith as guys would discuss football and what that does is end the conversation.

You’re not the only one who has this problem. To top things off I have the problem of becoming easily offended and then fall into the trap of arguing for the sake of arguing. In fact, recently I was banned from a “Reformed Baptist” web site, because I took offense to the way some were downgrading Catholics and I referred to the members of the thread as being devoid of intelligence. That was a childish act on my part and most certainly was not a good example of Catholicism. So, don’t feel alone. In the situation above, it may have been a better idea to tackle one issue at a time rather than allow him to jump from the issue of whether non-Catholics can go to heaven and then immediately move on to contraception. Once the first issue is discussed then move to the next. To use your football comparison, don’t try to defend against all the front line at once, choose who you’re going to block and after that move on to the next immediate attack. There is a VERY good basic apologetics series right here on Catholic Answers Beginning Apologetics 9-Book Series written by Jim Burnham and Father Frank Chacon. The booklets are short, concise and to the point. The “Cheat Sheet” that accompanies the series is extremely helpful when attempting to locate Biblical verses that support the Churches teachings on a particular issue.

I once heard an apologist say his biggest debates about Catholic doctrine are with Catholics. I’m discouraged at the fact that many catholics fail to look into their own faith for answers. I’m discouraged because even the catholics in my family go to the buffet instead of the catechism. Most of all I’m discouraged about my ability to express our beliefs in a loving way.

So true. Yet don’t stop but rather take a deep breath (or as a wise person in my life once said, “Say an Our Father, a Hail Mary, and a Glory Be”) when you start to feel the anger or frustration that so often accompanies apologetics.

Is there a patron Saint of Apologetics I can ask for intercession from?

St Catherine of Alexandria, St Justin Martyr, & St Thomas Aquinas

 

[Franze]

Formation, prayings, coherency and patience.