Discovery Channel's "Curiosity: Did God Create the Universe?"

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So, I don’t know how many of you watched the episode of Discovery’s “Curiosity” just now, but basically they said that God did not create the universe because there wasn’t time before the Big Bang for God to create the universe, so God didn’t create the universe; it was just a coincidence.

Thoughts on the program?
 
I logged in tonight to post my own thread on exactly this subject. Thank you for beating me to it.

The Science Channel actually put up a pair of programs, all built around the big name (Stephen Hawking) talking point you mentioned. The second half-hour section is allegedly a “conversation,” but in fact is a thinly disguised infomercial for atheism, with a so-called interviewer and three shmoos sitting around a table politely taking their turns reading teleprompter scripts.

The second section is merely a nail-pounding exercise, making sure that the lid on the coffin they engineered in the first section is hammered down tightly. They even got a couple of religious guys to look especially irrelevant by reiterating their dogma.

I’ve complained for a couple of years on CAF about dogma, and mostly what I get back is more dogma. This “Science” channel program fulfills my predictions. Atheism is out for Christian blood, and they will get it, first by syringe, eventually by the force of larger law.

Three centuries ago Galileo tried to get the Church to modify its arbitrary beliefs to accommodate just a few simple but obvious truths of science, and was nearly killed for his efforts. The Church has not budged from its intransigent position since.

It has been content with sitting back and declaring that, yeah, science is fine. It’s all good. No conflicts. These are lies. There are serious conflicts between fundamental elements of physics, and the fundamental doctrines of the Church. Its passive position is being attacked by well organized and well-funded atheists.

The Church must adjust its doctrines in accordance with solid physics, or it will go the way of Zeus and his soap-opera offspring. Just my opinions.

I’ll see soon if it is possible to be a friend of what the Church represents, on the large scale of importance to humanity, while inviting it to retain its moral teachings and revise its theology.
 
No, I didn’t watch the program, but I can’t see how they can claim that God is bound by time. He is outside of it, and can view all of the Universe’s events at the same moment. So how can they say that there wasn’t “time” for God to create the universe? God created the concept of “time” for us on Earth.
 
The Big Bang actually back ups God’s existence…the Big bang dictates that the universe did not always exist and many Atheist scientists are still trying to find an explanation for what came before the Big Bang, but all of them are inconclusive theories.

God is energy. Energy according to the law of thermodynamics can not be created or destroyed. God had no beginning but the universe has one.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

God bless :byzsoc:

David
 
So, I don’t know how many of you watched the episode of Discovery’s “Curiosity” just now, but basically they said that God did not create the universe because there wasn’t time before the Big Bang for God to create the universe, so God didn’t create the universe; it was just a coincidence.

Thoughts on the program?
What? Then when did the coincidence happen? :doh2:
 
The Big Bang actually back ups God’s existence…the Big bang dictates that the universe did not always exist and many Atheist scientists are still trying to find an explanation for what came before the Big Bang, but all of them are inconclusive theories.

God is energy. Energy according to the law of thermodynamics can not be created or destroyed. God had no beginning but the universe has one.

http://images.wikia.com/wikiality/images/6/6b/Atheism.jpg

God bless :byzsoc:

David
The words atheist, atheists and atheism are generally written lowercase, as they aren’t actually proper nouns.

It is just a description- like theism, deism, monotheism, polytheism, and agnosticism are descriptions but not actual religions.

Even on atheist websites, you won’t (usually) see them capitalized, short of following the normal rules. It tends to be a Christian thing to do. It isn’t really respectful at all, although I appreciate that you intended to be.
 
I don’t know. I had a mixed reaction to it. Yes, they had a couple of atheist that would not believe anything science can not prove. But they also had a couple of religious that supported their position well. They moderator came of as haughty. I did not care for him. He seemed biased. There was on scientist there I liked pretty well. He made the rather good point that if the universe arose from a multi-verse, then there is still the question of where the multi-verse came from. That is actual the ultimate problem with atheist and is a good application of the arguement from cause and effect. The Big Bang, multi-verse theory, brane theory, really do not answer the question of where we came from. They all just push the question back a notch.
 
No, I didn’t watch the program, but I can’t see how they can claim that God is bound by time. He is outside of it, and can view all of the Universe’s events at the same moment. So how can they say that there wasn’t “time” for God to create the universe? God created the concept of “time” for us on Earth.
I’m likely to agree with Greylorn here, the programme was probably not very original, mainly provocative. So I’m not sure what the arguments were but I’m guessing that God is supposed to be dependent for His existence on things which were created at the Big Bang and not before.

But on this point, how can anyone claim God is outside time? Is there any evidence or is it a position one is forced to assume? I wonder if any temporal evidence can show the existence of something outside time. If God is outside time, or if anything is, how can they interact with physical things that are in time? It’s not simply the Earth that time was created for, but everything. God is forced to reside outside the universe as a non-material, non-energy ‘thing’. In what way could Jesus have been of God, and how can transubstantiation work? Is it really God inside there…?

So many questions! These are just curiosities, no atheist plot to take over the world, but interesting nevertheless.
 
So, I don’t know how many of you watched the episode of Discovery’s “Curiosity” just now, but basically they said that God did not create the universe because there wasn’t time before the Big Bang for God to create the universe, so God didn’t create the universe; it was just a coincidence.

Thoughts on the program?
I didn’t see it (don’t have cable). But it certainly sounds ridiculous based on your description.

I’ve never heard such an argument out of anyone–atheist or theist.
 
…Atheism is out for Christian blood, and they will get it, first by syringe, eventually by the force of larger law…
Absolutely true. But religion cannot be crushed, the atheists tried in every communist regime that existed. Man is a spiritual creature by nature. Suppressing that doesn’t work any better than trying to stop breathing. Even in the secret depths of his heart, the atheist cries out to G-d.
…There are serious conflicts between fundamental elements of physics, and the fundamental doctrines of the Church…
No there aren’t. I defy you to name one.
 
…God is energy. Energy according to the law of thermodynamics can not be created or destroyed. God had no beginning but the universe has one…
G-d is defined as Actus Purus, the very act of existing. G-d needs no cause (is logically necessary) because the negation of of existing is “not existing”. An obvious logical contradiction. Therefore there is no other possible state of reality but for G-d to be. The physical laws are all extremely late in the logical build up of creation. Any being that is subject to physical laws cannot be G-d by definition.
 
No, I didn’t watch the program, but I can’t see how they can claim that God is bound by time. He is outside of it, and can view all of the Universe’s events at the same moment. So how can they say that there wasn’t “time” for God to create the universe? God created the concept of “time” for us on Earth.
 
…how can anyone claim God is outside time?
First. There is no such thing as “Time”. There is only change, we use the change of material things, quartz, cesium, gears, water, etc, to regularize change into an easy to use format. In the old days they would say to meet at some place when the full moon rose, or the butterflies arrived in Capistrano. It was much more accurate to move to sundials and hourglasses, and then gears, and then crystal vibrations, and then cesium vibrations. A view that is becoming widely accepted in the physics community.

Second, G-d is defined as Actus Purus, the very act of existing. G-d needs no cause (is logically necessary) because the negation of of existing is “not existing”. An obvious logical contradiction. Therefore there is no other possible state of reality but for G-d to be. The physical laws are all extremely late in the logical build up of creation. Any being that is subject to physical laws cannot be G-d by definition.
God is forced to reside outside the universe as a non-material, non-energy ‘thing’. In what way could Jesus have been of God, and how can transubstantiation work? Is it really God inside there…?
We are pan-en-theists. This means that G-d is both immanent and transcendent of the universe.
 
Interesting, Warpspeedpetey. Is your notion of G-d the same as the Catholic God? Are they different/different but compatible?

Similarly, do you believe in the Christian God Greylorn? It seems like you have some sort of belief or area in which you may plant belief if you deem it socially good!
 
Interesting, Warpspeedpetey. Is your notion of G-d the same as the Catholic God? Are they different/different but compatible?
It is the Catholic definition of G-d and by extension, that of all Christians.
 
I’m likely to agree with Greylorn here, the programme was probably not very original, mainly provocative. So I’m not sure what the arguments were but I’m guessing that God is supposed to be dependent for His existence on things which were created at the Big Bang and not before.

But on this point, how can anyone claim God is outside time? Is there any evidence or is it a position one is forced to assume? I wonder if any temporal evidence can show the existence of something outside time. If God is outside time, or if anything is, how can they interact with physical things that are in time? It’s not simply the Earth that time was created for, but everything. God is forced to reside outside the universe as a non-material, non-energy ‘thing’. In what way could Jesus have been of God, and how can transubstantiation work? Is it really God inside there…?

So many questions! These are just curiosities, no atheist plot to take over the world, but interesting nevertheless.
The “outside of time” stuff comes from the traditional definition of God as an omnipotent, omniscient entity, which leads to a number of other logical conundrums, such as why does God make people whom He knows He will subsequently send to hell. Elimination of the double-o properties, plus adopting the notion that the human “soul” was not created by God, solves these and many other theological conflicts.

But the TV discussion included no such insights— just a couple of party-line theologians who seemed to be on the program mainly to show how weak the case of a Creator is, compared to science. IMO it was a set-up job all the way.
 
Absolutely true. But religion cannot be crushed, the atheists tried in every communist regime that existed. Man is a spiritual creature by nature. Suppressing that doesn’t work any better than trying to stop breathing. Even in the secret depths of his heart, the atheist cries out to G-d.
Are you The Shadow now, knowing what lurks in the minds of men? (By the way, hearts don’t have secret depths, or thoughts, and do not cry out. The heart is a pump. An anatomy book might be helpful.)
…There are serious conflicts between fundamental elements of physics, and the fundamental doctrines of the Church…
According to Thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. God therefore cannot have created it.

Kindly spare us the argument that God created energy such that it cannot be created or destroyed. Advancing such nonsense would mark you as incompetent at dealing with the most simple and obvious logic, and I do not want a good friend like you to look like a dogma-ridden nit here on CAF. 🙂

Don’t use an argument involving “time” either. The Three Laws of Thermodynamics are each time-independent. (See how determined I am to help you out, that you do not write something that would make you look ignorant? )
 
According to Thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. God therefore cannot have created it.

Kindly spare us the argument that God created energy such that it cannot be created or destroyed. Advancing such nonsense would mark you as incompetent at dealing with the most simple and obvious logic, and I do not want a good friend like you to look like a dogma-ridden nit here on CAF. 🙂
Actually, some physicists (eg Lawrence Krauss) think that it may be possible for laws of physics to be generated spontaneously along with the time and space to which they apply. This would mean that the ‘existence’ of laws or specifically, say, the law of conservation of matter/energy do not necessarily preclude their creation by a God. It just depends on what sort of God is envisaged, if one has faith.
 
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