Discrepancies between typical ten commandments displays and scripture

[psalm90]

I managed to find a pdf of the Aleppo codices and managed to find the section containing the original Hebrew from the 900’s and it does, in fact, call them the ten commandments

כח ויהי שם עם יהוה ארבעים יום וארבעים לילה–לחם לא אכל ומים לא שתה ויכתב על הלחת את דברי הברית–עשרת הדברים

exodus 34 verse 28

Wikipedia article about this manuscript: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex

we have different sources.

 

[Zakhariya]

we have different sources.

appears so my friend

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Another other JPS source on this question refers to the first ten commandments in the original post as the universal decalogue that applies to all people, Jews and non-Jews, and is symbolized by its utterance in the wilderness away from national borders.

In Exodus 34, the second list of ‘ten commandments’ in the original post, are referred to as the ‘cultic decalogue’ those commands which distinguish the Jewish religion from others.

Again, they are all part of the 613 commandments found in the Torah (as I understand it, as Judaism teaches it) but this is not even close to being a fatal blow to the credibility of scripture, certainly no “discrepancies” here, when one commits oneself to the study.

Certainly the approach to scripture study by both Judaism and Christianity involves faith, patience, humility, perseverance, harmonization, awe, etc. to love God with one’s whole heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Neither the Cathecism nor the Church in general refer to multiple decalogues. They refer to a single capital-D Decalogue.

Also, Deuteronomy 4:13 (which is part of the same Catechism footnote I referenced earlier with Exodus 34) specifically states that The Ten Commandments were given to the chosen people via two stone tablets. As Exodus 34 shows both the broken and unbroken tablets contained the commandments from Exodus 34. If the commandments seen in Exodus 20 were also on a set of tablets, there is no mention of that anywhere.

 

[psalm90]

Neither the Cathecism nor the Church in general refer to multiple decalogues. They refer to a single capital-D Decalogue.

totally agree. I was explicitly citing Jewish sources. The use of non-Catholic sources is not only approved by the Church, but encouraged, recognizing that there will be differences from time to time from Church positions.

I am not the only person on this website who refers to these Jewish sources. All the greatest intellects in the Church have referred to Jewish sources, such as were available in their day. I am limited by my lack of knowledge of Hebrew and Aramaic, in this regard, and take the sources at their word. The JPS sources are scholarly yet aimed at pointing the truth to non-scholars, such as myself.

One of the amazing gifts to and of Judaism is the tolerance and exploration of differences among Jewish scholars. From what I’ve read, for example, the Talmud is full of debates that go on for centuries. And, this is all in the name of love and respect for the word of God.

And, the basis of these differences among scholars also traces to variations in Hebrew texts and traditions. The Jewish Study Bible (2nd Ed) Oxford Press has an essay that testifies that among the Dead Sea Scrolls, there are three different versions of scripture preserved. Loosely, these three full and varying texts can be referred to as the proto-Masoretic text, the Septuagint, and the Samaritan text.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

totally agree. I was explicitly citing Jewish sources. The use of non-Catholic sources is not only approved by the Church, but encouraged, recognizing that there will be differences from time to time from Church positions.

I am not the only person on this website who refers to these Jewish sources. All the greatest intellects in the Church have referred to Jewish sources, such as were available in their day. I am limited by my lack of knowledge of Hebrew and Aramaic, in this regard, and take the sources at their word. The JPS sources are scholarly yet aimed at pointing the truth to non-scholars, such as myself.

One of the amazing gifts to and of Judaism is the tolerance and exploration of differences among Jewish scholars. From what I’ve read, for example, the Talmud is full of debates that go on for centuries. And, this is all in the name of love and respect for the word of God.

And, the basis of these differences among scholars also traces to variations in Hebrew texts and traditions. The Jewish Study Bible (2nd Ed) Oxford Press has an essay that testifies that among the Dead Sea Scrolls, there are three different versions of scripture preserved. Loosely, these three full and varying texts can be referred to as the proto-Masoretic text, the Septuagint, and the Samaritan text.

Do you have a link to the Jewish source you are using which stated that there were two Decalogues? Even though we both disagree that there are two Decalogues I would be interested in reading it. The sources Zakhariya and I have cited state there is a single Decalogue, making a distinction of the ten commandments given in Exodus 34. The Catechism even references that verse describing the creation of the second set of tablets as the definitive Ten Commandments.

Any other ideas as to how Christians and the Church can reasonably say that the commandments given in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy are the Ten Commandments and not the ones in Exodus 34? Thanks again!

Also if anybody else out there has thoughts on this it would be much appreciated.

 

[dochawk]

Just to stir the pot a bit more . . .

The text doesn’t break and enumerate them. There are several different ways of splitting them, beginning with whether “I am the Lord thy God, Thou shalt not have other gods before me” is one or two commandments, leading to different enumerations . . .

And a week or two ago, Father noted that five is a significant number when it occurs, indicating completeness, and particularly with five and five: the wise and foolish virgins, the five supports on each support in the temple, the number of curtains in the temple . . . and that Jewish usage splits the Commandments into five about God, and five about fellow man.

AMDG

hawk