Discussing contraceptives, but leaving out Religion

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Although religious beliefs have much support on why contraceptives are wrong, how can I address the issues that do not deal with religion? For example, what if an Atheist proposed “So, if people are going to have sex, we should at least lower the risks, right?” or “well, no intelligent person would argue against the use of contraceptives in Africa, unless you bring in Religion.”

Although religion is an important aspect of the evil that is contraception, the evilness of contraceptives can be explained in other ways, in addition to the religious aspect. Can anybody help me with this?
 
This article reveals the flawed philosophy of condom advocacy:
beliefnet.com/story/183/story_18348_1.html

The fact is that using condoms actually increase AIDS.

P.S. You also have to understand that for most people using Africa in their arguments is just an excuse, in order to avoid others (i.e., the Church) telling them that there are some moral problems with their lifestyle, and so that they wouldn’t have to change anything about their lifestyle.
 
You can find lots of medical information that show detrimental side effects (like increased risk of breast cancer) from the use of hormonal contraceptives…
No need to bring up religion there at all! 👍
 
I don’t understand your point. If the use of contraceptives is immoral, why are additional reasons required? How can non-religious aspects of anything be “evil”?

The fact is that from a non-religious aspect there are good and bad things about all forms of contraceptives. The Church ban on contraceptive use has absolutely nothing to do with the medicinal or health aspects of their use. If you begin by arguing that drugs the vast majority of the medical community believe are safe are not actually safe, I’m afraid that will not help your credibility on the issue.

If you want to convince this person to come to your viewpoint on a moral issue, you are going to have to use moral arguments to do so. Why would they be convinced if they know the arguments you are advancing are not the real reason you believe the way you do?
 
These seem to be the most common responses:

“Medicine is unnatural, it prevents (or limits) the natural result of illness. Something unnatural is not necessarily a bad thing.”

“Why are contraceptives an issue if I take it into my hands? If God wanted all sexual intercourse to result in children, would he not take it into His hands?”

“Sperm don’t have souls, so it is dispensable as sweat and blood is.”

“Find me a part in the Bible where it says contraceptives are wrong. And the Onan story doesn’t count.”

And then also came the concept that Catholics are bigots and say that society is wrong, and you are right. You people stop trying to push your views on us.

This one cracked me up:
“The Churches were corrupt and said any sex that was not after marriage, in the missionary style, or lasted more than 5 minutes is a sin.”
 
hamburglar said:
These seem to be the most common responses:

“Medicine is unnatural, it prevents (or limits) the natural result of illness. Something unnatural is not necessarily a bad thing.”
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The purpose of medicine is to restore health and prevent disease. How is intentionally suppressing the gift of fertility preventing disease or restoring health?
“Why are contraceptives an issue if I take it into my hands? If God wanted all sexual intercourse to result in children, would he not take it into His hands?”
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He ordained a cycle for a reason.
“Sperm don’t have souls, so it is dispensable as sweat and blood is.”
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Your foot does not have an immortal soul does that mean one has a right to do anything one pleases with it?
“Find me a part in the Bible where it says contraceptives are wrong. And the Onan story doesn’t count.”
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Find me a part in the bible that says Christ founded a book and left you as the final interpreter of all things moral.
And then also came the concept that Catholics are bigots and say that society is wrong, and you are right. You people stop trying to push your views on us.
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They reject the truth of Catholic teaching then claim we must accept their dogma as truth. Why must we accept their position?
This one cracked me up:
“The Churches were corrupt and said any sex that was not after marriage, in the missionary style, or lasted more than 5 minutes is a sin.”
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Ask them for proof.
 
hamburglar said:
Although religious beliefs have much support on why contraceptives are wrong, how can I address the issues that do not deal with religion? For example, what if an Atheist proposed “So, if people are going to have sex, we should at least lower the risks, right?” or “well, no intelligent person would argue against the use of contraceptives in Africa, unless you bring in Religion.”

Although religion is an important aspect of the evil that is contraception, the evilness of contraceptives can be explained in other ways, in addition to the religious aspect. Can anybody help me with this?
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How about this:

Contraception is ultimately bad for society. Just like drugs, murder, rape, stealing, etc.
 
hamburglar said:
or “well, no intelligent person would argue against the use of contraceptives in Africa, unless you bring in Religion.”
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So, my response would be: “I’m sorry, are you implying that Africans are a race of people incapable of fidelity, chastity, and self-control? Wow, that’s pretty bigotted.”
 
1ke said:
So, my response would be: “I’m sorry, are you implying that Africans are a race of people incapable of fidelity, chastity, and self-control? Wow, that’s pretty bigoted.”
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I like your response. It seems to me that when we mention a group that just HAS TO HAVE BC that what we are saying is the that group is incapable of controlling their sexual drives. Seems like it equates some humans with lower animals. I would like to see humans act with self-control and care for themselves and the other person involved.
 
It may be helpful with some individuals to discuss the philosophical reasons why the secular world “needs” birth control." For example, both birth control and abortion are “necessary” if many Americans are going to pursue their consumeristic, egocentric lifestyles. I would venture to say that in the vast majority of cases, the use of contraceptives springs from selfish desires in those who do not wish to be “burdened” in any way with children.

Of course this argument does not apply to all cases, but I think it plays a big role in the holocaust of contraception and abortion that we are currently witnessing.
 
KathleenElsie said:
I like your response. It seems to me that when we mention a group that just HAS TO HAVE BC that what we are saying is the that group is incapable of controlling their sexual drives. Seems like it equates some humans with lower animals. I would like to see humans act with self-control and care for themselves and the other person involved.
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It also reeks of superiority-- as if WE know what is best for THEM. As if they are ignorant savages and “we” are the enlightened civilized ones. (“we” meaning westerners and the liberal intelligencia).

Those who advocate truckloads of contraceptives for others often fail to understand that they are projecting their *own *ideas of family on to others. Often, those in other countries have a much greater sense of family and WANT many children. They love their children.

They don’t want truckloads of condoms and pills, they want potable water, schools, and *opportunity *for the children that they love. The poor do not despise their children. The poor do not want to annihilate their progeny or abort them. It seems that is much more the domain of the rich.
 
One reason contraceptives are wrong is because they essentially turn people into sex toys.

Question: Does my spouse exist to give me orgasms, or to assist me in founding a family and creating a safe and happy home? (What is my marriage really about?)
 
1ke said:
It also reeks of superiority-- as if WE know what is best for THEM. As if they are ignorant savages and “we” are the enlightened civilized ones. (“we” meaning westerners and the liberal intelligencia).

Those who advocate truckloads of contraceptives for others often fail to understand that they are projecting their *own *ideas of family on to others.
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Ah, yes. Utopianism. Very good point.
 
well.if we constantly play up to the weakness of a person…that person will think…gee its expected of me to act like a barnyard animal so I guess I might as well! A new program was started in our catholic (small c) high school years ago…called discovery…among many dangerous things was that …let the students clean up after themselves in the cafeteria…no more should we faculty members be there to guide them and advise…they will figure it out for themselves…of course in a week the place was such a mess…some 2,000 students…the board of health came in…tons of garbage all over the place…that part of 'discovery’was abandoned!!! Respect,values,common sense etc all must come into play…encircled by spiritual teachings. Tell a young teacher …buddy over there is acting up…not because you are a boring teacher but because that boy has…LD…ABCD.symptons etc etc…drug em…we humans need guidance not a license to act like lower beasts…Nino
 
Silly little post from a Southern Lady…

Why not ask your atheist friend a few questions…

Do you wonder why we don’t have a cure for AIDS, Cancer, Lukeima, Down Syndrome, and the millions of diseases and disorders that humans have???

Do you ever wonder why we don’t have politicians that are worth voting for?

Do you ever wonder why we can’t figure out how to create a clean power source?

Probably because the people who could have become Scientist, Doctors, Politicians, etc… never had a chance to develop. The egg was never fertilized, or worse, they were terminated with an abortion.
 
Okay, there are really two main responses I consistently get:

“So what if contraception is unnatural. Medicine is unnatural. Should we do away with that as well?”

“If God didn’t want us to use contraceptives, why would he give us the ability to create them?”

I would like good responses to both of these. For the first one, it would be better to give a non-religious answer. For the second one, a religious answer is obviously the kind I need.
 
hamburglar said:
Okay, there are really two main responses I consistently get:

“So what if contraception is unnatural. Medicine is unnatural. Should we do away with that as well?” Not all medicines are good for everyone. One size does not fit all. Yet BC is considered by society to “fit” all. Is there any one other drug that is given to anyone that just asked for them no matter their age or health?

“If God didn’t want us to use contraceptives, why would he give us the ability to create them?” God in giving us free will gave us the ability to murder or nurture. So do you think God wants us to murder?

I would like good responses to both of these. For the first one, it would be better to give a non-religious answer. For the second one, a religious answer is obviously the kind I need.
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“So what if contraception is unnatural. Medicine is unnatural. Should we do away with that as well?”
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“Medicine” is chemical stuff that cures people of various diseases and ailments. Birth control drugs don’t cure anything; the people who use them aren’t even sick.

Instead, they cause infertility; that is, damage to a healthy body - in other words, they aren’t “medicine” at all - they are “poison.”
“If God didn’t want us to use contraceptives, why would he give us the ability to create them?”
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We also have the ability to annhililate the earth using atomic and nuclear weapons - does God approve of this idea, do you think? There are many things we can do, that we ought not to do.
 
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