Discussing Eucharist with a Non-Catholic Christian

[Harpazo]

Right now I’m discussing the Eucharist on a Christian forum for teens or something like that. Regardless, the person I’m discussing with was once a Catholic, but is now AoG. He claims that nowhere in the Bible does it say that a priest can consecrate, and anyone can do it. All bread and all wine is Christ’s body and blood.

It’s hard to reason with him, any thoughts, suggestions?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[VociMike]

You could start by challenging him to show where any Early Fathers, who learned at the very feet of the Apostles, ever taught what he believes.

Who was in the upper room that night? Everybody? Or just the Apostles?

 

[Mike_Brick]

Right now I’m discussing the Eucharist on a Christian forum for teens or something like that. Regardless, the person I’m discussing with was once a Catholic, but is now AoG. He claims that nowhere in the Bible does it say that a priest can consecrate, and anyone can do it. All bread and all wine is Christ’s body and blood.

It’s hard to reason with him, any thoughts, suggestions?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

VociMike’s reply is good, and in addition ask where does the guy with whom you are discussing the topic find the authority in the Bible that proves anyone can consecrate the Eucharist? Even if that were so, isn’t a priest an “anyone”?

Peace Be With You

 

[YADA]

St Paul refers to the Bread “which we beless” and the Cup “which we bless” as being the a participation in the Body and Blood, to drink it unworthily is to partake to our death That to come together to eat and drink an ordinalry meal is a denial of the reality of the sacrament and Jesus’ atoning sacrifice.

Read about it hear in 1 Corinthians…St. Paul is correcting liturgical abuses and misunderstandings…

In giving this instruction, I do not praise the fact that your meetings are doing more harm than good. 18 First of all, I hear that when you meet as a church there are divisions among you, and to a degree I believe it; 19 there have to be factions among you in order that (also) those who are approved among you may become known. 10 20 When you meet in one place, then, it is not to eat the Lord’s supper, 21 for in eating, each one goes ahead with his own supper, and one goes hungry while another gets drunk. 22 Do you not have houses in which you can eat and drink? Or do you show contempt for the church of God and make those who have nothing feel ashamed? What can I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this matter I do not praise you. 23
11 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, 24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12 **28 **A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup. **29 **For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself. 30 That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. 31 If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; 32 but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. 33 **herefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. ****34 **If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that your meetings may not result in judgment. The other matters I shall set in order when I come.

 

[brianwalden]

Does your friend really think all bread and wine is the Body and Blood of Christ? If so, why doesn’t he kneel down in the bread aisle at the grocery store? What about tricky things like muffins and wine coolers?

 

[Church_Militant]

Right now I’m discussing the Eucharist on a Christian forum for teens or something like that. Regardless, the person I’m discussing with was once a Catholic, but is now AoG. He claims that nowhere in the Bible does it say that a priest can consecrate, and anyone can do it. All bread and all wine is Christ’s body and blood.

It’s hard to reason with him, any thoughts, suggestions?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

The Eucharist IS Scriptural!

 

[YADA]

I think your frind needs to read 1 Corinthians…ask him about St Paul’s discussion of the Eucharistic meal and how it difffered from the meals they ate where they “got drunk”…how can you eat something common and yet **eat it **to your death.

This from 1 Corintians Chapter 10…

Therefore, my beloved, avoid idolatry. 15 I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying. 16
**The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? **17 Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

and for the same chapter…

You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and also the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and of the table of demons.

This denotes something special, some perpetual sacramental food…

 

[teachccd]

Right now I’m discussing the Eucharist on a Christian forum for teens or something like that. Regardless, the person I’m discussing with was once a Catholic, but is now AoG. He claims that nowhere in the Bible does it say that a priest can consecrate, and anyone can do it. All bread and all wine is Christ’s body and blood.

It’s hard to reason with him, any thoughts, suggestions?

In Pax Christi
Andrew

Nowhere in the Bible does it state that the 27 New Testament books were chosen correctly. Only the Church that acknowledged them can.

All bread and all wine is Christ’s body and blood?? Where in heaven’s creation did he come up with that ludicrous idea??? So my toasted cheese sandwich was Christ’s body?:tsktsk: Give me a break!!

This is a prime example of where private biblical interpretation can lead. Such nonsense should not be tolerated and if he feels that anyone can consecrate he really needs to read the Bible that he so freely uses to bash those who gave it to him.

And one last thought. He was once a Catholic in name only. No one who believed in the Eucharist could leave it for symbolism. Many claim to have been “Catholic” and never even realized what it was that they left. Everyone is Catholic because grandma and grandpa insisted that their parents baptize them. Think about it…Keep up the good work and don’t give up. We have the truth and we must stand by it…God Bless, Teachccd

 

[KennC]

…, and anyone can do it. All bread and all wine is Christ’s body and blood.

Anyone can do what? if all bread and wine are Christs’ Body and Blood

Any idea how old this chap is?

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Anyone can do what? if all bread and wine are Christs’ Body and Blood

Any idea how old this chap is?

Hardly a way to resolve the issue. What if he answers, since the very beginning?

What you want to ask is any idea how young this idea is?

 

[Mike_Brick]

Hardly a way to resolve the issue. What if he answers, since the very beginning? What you want to ask is any idea how young this idea is?

Graceseeker, I think you misread what he said, which was “Any idea how old this chap is?”. That word is “chap”, or young man, not the other word you thought it was. Does that change your reply?

Peace

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Graceseeker, I think you misread what he said, which was “Any idea how old this chap is?”. That word is “chap”, or young man, not the other word you thought it was. Does that change your reply?

Peace

Obviously I need to get a new pair of glasses.

 

[Harpazo]

My conversation ended somewhat pre-maturely with this person. She was extremely disillusioned to truth, and denied absolute truth. The sad thing is that she was once a Catholic, and wanted to “feel” more in the Assemblies of God.

It wouldn’t let me save the conversation, because it was in a chat room. I just kept shaking my head. I give an example of some of the things she said:

• the Church has changed it’s teaching
• The Protestants made the Bible first
• Jesus wants us to feel Him all the time, and we don’t have to serve Him, just feel Him.
• There’s no way the Church could last 2000 years
• The Church suppressed speaking in tongues.

I had never been in a more frustrating conversation in my life. She told me that everyone’s right in Christianity, and God chooses to show people different things. I then tried to use an analogy saying “is 1+1 always 2? Or can it equal 43?” She then said "I’d have to know the definition of the symbol “1.” I had to end it. There was no reasoning with her at all, so I ended the conversation and thanked her for the discussion.

I can only pray for her soul.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[brianwalden]

I had never been in a more frustrating conversation in my life. She told me that everyone’s right in Christianity, and God chooses to show people different things. I then tried to use an analogy saying “is 1+1 always 2? Or can it equal 43?” She then said "I’d have to know the definition of the symbol “1.” I had to end it. There was no reasoning with her at all, so I ended the conversation and thanked her for the discussion.

Andrew, I know how you feel. I also haven’t figured out how to talk to a relativist, even one who claims to be Catholic. If anyone has any advice, I’d like to hear it as much as Andrew.

 

[Vaclav]

It almost sounds as though your friend has more of a problem with the Sacrament of Holy Orders rather than the Holy Eucharist.

This is an issue that comes down to the very foundation of the Church.

According to wikipedia (I know it isn’t a perfect source) the Assemblies of God believe this about Holy Communion:

Holy Communion - The Lord’s Supper, consisting of the elements --bread and the fruit of the vine-- is the symbol expressing our sharing the divine nature of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:4 ), a memorial of his suffering and death (1 Corinthians 11:26 ), and a prophecy of His second coming (1 Corinthians 11:26 ), and is enjoined on all believers “till He come!”

Notice the phrase: “is the symbol.”

I think he needs to ask his minister if he really believes that. He is not going to find the Eucharist in the AoG, no matter how illogical he tries to be.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Andrew, I know how you feel. I also haven’t figured out how to talk to a relativist, even one who claims to be Catholic. If anyone has any advice, I’d like to hear it as much as Andrew.

You can’t talk to a relativist.

Or maybe you can. Perhaps both.

Or neither.

VC

 

[teachccd]

I had never been in a more frustrating conversation in my life. She told me that everyone’s right in Christianity, and God chooses to show people different things. I then tried to use an analogy saying “is 1+1 always 2? Or can it equal 43?” She then said "I’d have to know the definition of the symbol “1.” I had to end it. There was no reasoning with her at all, so I ended the conversation and thanked her for the discussion.

I can only pray for her soul.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

So God showed the Jehovah’s Witnesses that Jesus is not God. And God showed the Mormons that He was once a man and became God and that we too can become gods.

Now using this persons logic that everyone’s right in Chrisianity, how can this person say that the Protestants gave us the Bible?? The Catholic Church makes that claim. So who’s right?? Just whoever believes whatever??

Just pray for this very confused person. If you have one last shot just ask her if someone believed that she was a six foot-five male basketball player she would have to be one because that is what God showed you. There is no absolute truth, only what one chooses to believe so ask her /him (cause that is who this person is to you) if we can shoot baskets sometime…:whacky: :bigyikes:

I had to give this one more: :bigyikes:

 

[mayra_hart]

to harpazo: i understand your situation with your friend because my sister comfront me with the same months ago, in her case she is disciple of christ. at the time i found answer through father cestudei this is a quote that i use with my sister “They don’t use our Eucharistic prayer. They may say the words of institution in a similiar way, but do not believe what we do. Ask her what they do with leftover communion bread or if they worship Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. They don’t. Encourage her to read John 6 and come home.” she couldn’t answer that. sad she still goes to the sect. about the rest of the questions i will try to get a book from a protestant convert like david currie or scott hahn. personally they have help me a lot. . Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
R. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.