Discussing the Bible with a Non-Christian

[tyler_1]

Here’s a tough one:

A Non-Christian (NC) randomly said to me:

“I’ve read the Bible… a man wrote that”

Totally caught off guard, i didn’t know what to say. I’d like to know what is a good reply in this situation. I don’t think saying something like “a divinely inspired man wrote it” is going to cut it with a NC.

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Just give him a clear answer what we believe about it, and that is Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) came here 2000 years ago and established the Catholic Church. Then shortly after He went back to Heaven His followers wrote accounts under the instruction of God that make up the New Testament, while those who were the followers of God before Christ came to earth wrote many things with God’s instruction that we call the Old Testament.

Then as time pasted the Catholic Church, which God established 2000 years ago (very important to stress this), put together the Bible while being lead by the Spirit of God. They put the Bible together by determining what books were inspired and what was not.

 

[tyler_1]

that’s pretty good. thanks man. i’ll commit that to memory.

 

[anon5216]

Tyler,

Here’s an alternate perspective.

Just give him a clear answer what we believe about it, and that is Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) came here 2000 years ago and established the Catholic Church. Then shortly after He went back to Heaven His followers wrote accounts under the instruction of God that make up the New Testament, while those who were the followers of God before Christ came to earth wrote many things with God’s instruction that we call the Old Testament.

Then as time pasted the Catholic Church, which God established 2000 years ago (very important to stress this), put together the Bible while being lead by the Spirit of God. They put the Bible together by determining what books were inspired and what was not.

Copland, you apparently do not realize how ridiculous that sounds to non-Christians. Those claims made to someone who doesn’t already believe them makes you out to be some kind of brainwashed cult member. How old or big that cult is notwithstanding.

Do you really want to impress your spirituality on non-Christians?

Live your life, inner and outer, in accord with your spiritual understanding - striving always to transform yourself spiritually. Neither hide nor boast about your spiritual life - live it.

Leave the simplistic belief statements for impressionable first graders (not all of them - just the impressionable ones).

May I suggest a response that I believe would get you more respect from a non-Christian:

“Regardless of how the Bible was written, I’ve taken it very seriously and it has profoundly enhanced my spiritual life. Also, being a member of the Catholic Church has helped me grow in ways I simply can’t deny.”

Say this in a casual non-emphatic manner and let your life speak by example. The catch, of course, is that you have to walk the talk.

disclaimer: Don’t take my advice as coming from anything like a Catholic spiritual director. I’m an ex-Catholic and basically non-Christian. Although I can assure you that I personally have respect for Catholics who respond in the manner I’ve suggested above, and personally view Christians who present themselves as Copland 3 suggests in the manner that I described earlier.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[thistle]

Tyler,

Here’s an alternate perspective.

Copland, you apparently do not realize how ridiculous that sounds to non-Christians. Those claims made to someone who doesn’t already believe them makes you out to be some kind of brainwashed cult member. How old or big that cult is notwithstanding.

Do you really want to impress your spirituality on non-Christians?

Live your life, inner and outer, in accord with your spiritual understanding - striving always to transform yourself spiritually. Neither hide nor boast about your spiritual life - live it.

Leave the simplistic belief statements for impressionable first graders (not all of them - just the impressionable ones).

May I suggest a response that I believe would get you more respect from a non-Christian:

“Regardless of how the Bible was written, I’ve taken it very seriously and it has profoundly enhanced my spiritual life. Also, being a member of the Catholic Church has helped me grow in ways I simply can’t deny.”

Say this in a casual non-emphatic manner and let your life speak by example. The catch, of course, is that you have to walk the talk.

disclaimer: Don’t take my advice as coming from anything like a Catholic spiritual director. I’m an ex-Catholic and basically non-Christian. Although I can assure you that I personally have respect for Catholics who respond in the manner I’ve suggested above, and personally view Christians who present themselves as Copland 3 suggests in the manner that I described earlier.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

I totally disagree with you. I think Copland gave an excellent response.

 

[anon5216]

I totally disagree with you. I think Copland gave an excellent response.

Perhaps it makes you feel stronger about what the Church tells you to believe if you can shout it out to a non-believer with conviction. From my perspective it simply indicates lack of faith. And I’m the type you’re supposedly trying to convince?

No. Copland’s suggestion is for the benefit of Copland. They’re just trying to convince themselves, not anyone like me who they’re supposedly speaking to.

Do you really “totally disagree” with living your life, inner and outer, in accord with your spiritual understanding - striving always to transform yourself spiritually? Neither hiding nor boasting about your spiritual life, but living it?

Do you really “totally disagree” with letting your life speak by example and walking the talk?

Do you think “Do as I say, not as I do”, but said emphatically, is the appropriate path?

With supporters like that, the Church needs no external enemies. It will self destruct from within. Which is quite sad for those who could actually spiritually benefit from the association.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[thistle]

Perhaps it makes you feel stronger about what the Church tells you to believe if you can shout it out to a non-believer with conviction. From my perspective it simply indicates lack of faith. And I’m the type you’re supposedly trying to convince?

No. Copland’s suggestion is for the benefit of Copland. They’re just trying to convince themselves, not anyone like me who they’re supposedly speaking to.

Do you really “totally disagree” with living your life, inner and outer, in accord with your spiritual understanding - striving always to transform yourself spiritually? Neither hiding nor boasting about your spiritual life, but living it?

Do you really “totally disagree” with letting your life speak by example and walking the talk?

Do you think “Do as I say, not as I do”, but said emphatically, is the appropriate path?

With supporters like that, the Church needs no external enemies. It will self destruct from within. Which is quite sad for those who could actually spiritually benefit from the association.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

The OP wants a response for a non-Christian, not a fallen Catholic!
From your perspective it indicates a lack of faith??!! That’s rich coming from a heretic!

 

[tyler_1]

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Tyler,

Here’s an alternate perspective.

Copland, you apparently do not realize how ridiculous that sounds to non-Christians. Those claims made to someone who doesn’t already believe them makes you out to be some kind of brainwashed cult member. How old or big that cult is notwithstanding.

Do you really want to impress your spirituality on non-Christians?

Live your life, inner and outer, in accord with your spiritual understanding - striving always to transform yourself spiritually. Neither hide nor boast about your spiritual life - live it.

Leave the simplistic belief statements for impressionable first graders (not all of them - just the impressionable ones).

May I suggest a response that I believe would get you more respect from a non-Christian:

“Regardless of how the Bible was written, I’ve taken it very seriously and it has profoundly enhanced my spiritual life. Also, being a member of the Catholic Church has helped me grow in ways I simply can’t deny.”

Say this in a casual non-emphatic manner and let your life speak by example. The catch, of course, is that you have to walk the talk.

disclaimer: Don’t take my advice as coming from anything like a Catholic spiritual director. I’m an ex-Catholic and basically non-Christian. Although I can assure you that I personally have respect for Catholics who respond in the manner I’ve suggested above, and personally view Christians who present themselves as Copland 3 suggests in the manner that I described earlier.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

Wow, thanks for your discreetness!

There are some truths that you have given though I believe that the response you gave is a very good starting point, but sort of incomplete according to the question of the OP.

Sure, our example that we give with our lives is the most effective testimony that a non-believer can see. And your response is very good, and I would highly recommend it, but I have been in enough of these situations to know that 99% of the time once you give a response like that then they will take it to another level and test you and demand something a little deeper, which is the response that I gave. Because if you are not prepared to go deeper then you will be seen by that person as someone who has just taken a leap of bind faith, and that is a turn off. Many nonbelievers are willing to hear some spiritual depth of your Faith as long as it sounds logical, but if they think that you believe in something without knowing why you actually believe it, other than it just feels right to you, they won’t usually buy that.

Plus, often times some people will have parts of the picture concerning the make up of the Bible, and it is just enough that they are confused and unsatisfied, and once they hear a clear response it can all fall in place for them and make sense to them. There has been a number of times that I have seen that light bulb go off in someones head after I have filled in some of the gaps that were missing. Then it is up to them to move on from there and decide if God’s Word is going to help them get closer to God or if they will continue to reject Him.

People sometimes need that clear cut answer about the make up of the Bible because there are so many mixed messages and wrong information about it from all the non-Catholics, such as the Apostles wrote the King James Version, King James wrote the Bible, etc etc. I have heard so many rediculous things like that that no wonder some people cannot trust the Bible, I wouldn’t!

 

[Starwynd]

Let me see… so why is it important to stress that it was established 2000 years ago? Some people take no stock in tradition. I’m one of those people that has never been a strong believer in tradition because traditions are like rules, they were made to be broken. I’ve always been hostile to traditions because they often do not make sense are are simply tools used to keep people in line with a popular belief. Now, as a Catholic, I will abide by them even if they do bother me. That’s one hole in the comment. Just because something is old doesn’t mean it has authority either. So stressing the age is not necessarily a strong point to a non- Christian.

Here’s a video that you might want to look at considering on how to convert atheists and non-religious:

youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI

 

[COPLAND_3]

Let me see… so why is it important to stress that it was established 2000 years ago? Some people take no stock in tradition. I’m one of those people that has never been a strong believer in tradition because traditions are like rules, they were made to be broken. I’ve always been hostile to traditions because they often do not make sense are are simply tools used to keep people in line with a popular belief. Now, as a Catholic, I will abide by them even if they do bother me. That’s one hole in the comment. Just because something is old doesn’t mean it has authority either. So stressing the age is not necessarily a strong point to a non- Christian.

Here’s a video that you might want to look at considering on how to convert atheists and non-religious:

youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI

I converted to Christianity 12 years ago as a Southern Baptist, and then about 3 years ago I converted to Catholicism (the fulness of Christianity). Tradition played a big part for me because as a Southern Baptist I saw the need for tradition, because subjectiveness is very unfulfilling after a while, especially when you seek the Christianity that Jesus truly established. I want all of Jesus Christ, not my version of it or this or that preacher’s version of it. And that is what the Catholic Church provides is Jesus’ version, backed up with 2000 years of it.

Just because something is old doesn’t mean it has authority either. So stressing the age is not necessarily a strong point to a non- Christian.

That is not at all the point that I was making, and I thought that I was clear about my point. The point is to let them know that the Bible was not accidently put together or written by some pious man or by King James (some people think that), but that it goes back to God in the flesh (Jesus). Jesus is the cause of the Bible, and His Church (Catholic Church) is the instrument in which it has been given to us. This is solid ground stuff, not because it is old but because of the the SOURCE that it comes from.

 

[teachccd]

The OP wants a response for a non-Christian, not a fallen Catholic!
From your perspective it indicates a lack of faith??!! That’s rich coming from a heretic!

Your post is saturated with charity. Nice way to exhibit how a Catholic would leave the ninety nine…teachccd

 

[thistle]

Your post is saturated with charity. Nice way to exhibit how a Catholic would leave the ninety nine…teachccd

We are to admonish sinners!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Here’s a tough one:

A Non-Christian (NC) randomly said to me:

“I’ve read the Bible… a man wrote that”

Totally caught off guard, i didn’t know what to say. I’d like to know what is a good reply in this situation. I don’t think saying something like “a divinely inspired man wrote it” is going to cut it with a NC.

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

**Where’s the problem ? It didn’t float down from Heaven, but was written by humans in words & ideas of humans. **​

 

[anon5216]

The OP wants a response for a non-Christian, not a fallen Catholic!
And just why do you presume that a former Catholic cannot essentially be a non-Christian?

From your perspective it indicates a lack of faith??!!
From Copland’s subsequent post, I realize that they personally were responding to a different interpretation of the OP than I was. They added more context to their position that indicates they are not just a “do as I say, not as I do” Catholic.

Now, to get back to your incredulity that vociferously exclaiming a set of beliefs the Church teaches you to someone who questions those beliefs can be symptomatic of a weakness or outright lack of faith.

To come back first thing with Copland’s original suggestion outside of any context of first establishing that you can walk the talk is a very defensive and weak position. Why? The other person already told you they don’t believe those things. You’re just running in the “Yes it is” vs. “No it isn’t” grade school taunt. You’re just telling yourself what to believe without in any way demonstrating and/or explaining to the non-Christian why they should consider believing it. Remember that, according to the OP, the non-Christian is not questioning Catholic Church conclusions and theologies based on the Bible, they’re questioning the validity of the Bible itself.

That’s rich coming from a heretic!
You seem to assume that the word “Faith” only goes with the words “Catholic Church”. Look it up. There is no such binding. You define my faith as heresy. Fine, according to the Church hierarchy, I suppose that would be consistent. That doesn’t mean anything as far as me possibly having a very strong Buddhist or Hindu or Sufi or whatever faith.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[anon5216]

Wow, thanks for your discreetness!
The context provided by your subsequent post makes it clear I owe you an apology.

Please accept it.

There are some truths that you have given though I believe that the response you gave is a very good starting point, but sort of incomplete according to the question of the OP.

Sure, our example that we give with our lives is the most effective testimony that a non-believer can see. And your response is very good, and I would highly recommend it, but I have been in enough of these situations to know that 99% of the time once you give a response like that then they will take it to another level and test you and demand something a little deeper, which is the response that I gave. Because if you are not prepared to go deeper then you will be seen by that person as someone who has just taken a leap of blind faith, and that is a turn off. Many nonbelievers are willing to hear some spiritual depth of your Faith as long as it sounds logical, but if they think that you believe in something without knowing why you actually believe it, other than it just feels right to you, they won’t usually buy that.
I hope you can see this was precisely my reaction to your first suggestion. I realize your perspective must be that you felt you were giving the “why” for all the Church teachings and beliefs built on top of the propositions you suggested treated as axioms. Here lies our difference of perspective. What are axioms to you, are “a blind leap of faith…” to me - as well as to many others who are spiritually educated in multiple non-Christian spiritual traditions.

Plus, often times some people will have parts of the picture concerning the make up of the Bible, and it is just enough that they are confused and unsatisfied, and once they hear a clear response it can all fall in place for them and make sense to them. There has been a number of times that I have seen that light bulb go off in someones head after I have filled in some of the gaps that were missing. Then it is up to them to move on from there and decide if God’s Word is going to help them get closer to God or if they will continue to reject Him.

People sometimes need that clear cut answer about the make up of the Bible because there are so many mixed messages and wrong information about it from all the non-Catholics, such as the Apostles wrote the King James Version, King James wrote the Bible, etc etc. I have heard so many rediculous things like that that no wonder some people cannot trust the Bible, I wouldn’t!
OK, I see the appropriateness of your suggestions in these cases. I think they would apply more frequently to non-Catholic Christians than to non-Christians. I think this shows that one response is not going to handle all situations. You’re going to have to have the discernment to accurately assess the context of the interaction - something not easily done in response to a couple paragraph, out of social context, posts.

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[anon5216]

The OP wants a response for a non-Christian, not a fallen Catholic!
From your perspective it indicates a lack of faith??!! That’s rich coming from a heretic!

Your post is saturated with charity. Nice way to exhibit how a Catholic would leave the ninety nine…teachccd

We are to admonish sinners!

teachccd,

I don’t really take thistle very seriously. Their posts strike me as spiritually quite naive, without very deep roots in their faith. All religions and religious groups have them in abundance. I think most everyone who tries to take the spiritual life seriously but doesn’t get deep enough will have spells of that. (The handle “thistle” really says it quite well, I think. They may believe they came up with the handle from heraldry, but based on the past few posts, I think just the basic plant description is appropriate today. )

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Here’s a tough one:

A Non-Christian (NC) randomly said to me:

“I’ve read the Bible… a man wrote that”

Totally caught off guard, i didn’t know what to say. I’d like to know what is a good reply in this situation. I don’t think saying something like “a divinely inspired man wrote it” is going to cut it with a NC.

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

…Technically, they’re right in a way. God doesn’t quite have a form, and the men who put the Bible together were inspired by God.

But if you wish argue against that in the future, you’ll win. You may look a little childish through the eyes of the one who comments, but you’ll win.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[teachccd]

teachccd,

I don’t really take thistle very seriously. Their posts strike me as spiritually quite naive, without very deep roots in their faith. All religions and religious groups have them in abundance. I think most everyone who tries to take the spiritual life seriously but doesn’t get deep enough will have spells of that. (The handle “thistle” really says it quite well, I think. They may believe they came up with the handle from heraldry, but based on the past few posts, I think just the basic plant description is appropriate today. )

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

God bless…teachccd

 

[thistle]

teachccd,

I don’t really take thistle very seriously. Their posts strike me as spiritually quite naive, without very deep roots in their faith. All religions and religious groups have them in abundance. I think most everyone who tries to take the spiritual life seriously but doesn’t get deep enough will have spells of that. (The handle “thistle” really says it quite well, I think. They may believe they came up with the handle from heraldry, but based on the past few posts, I think just the basic plant description is appropriate today. )

May God bless you (and your circle of family, friends and acquaintances) in His own way with ever transcending spiritual growth, far beyond anything you or I or any religious authority can imagine.

You still think you know me. What arrogance! Who are “their”? Heraldry??