Discussion about ectopic pregnancies

[drjsp]

OK, I get what you’re saying.

It all has to do with intent and the notion of double effect. It really doesn’t matter if the embryo is directly removed or if the uterus or fallopian tube is removed or if the embryo dies as a result of administration of cytotoxic drugs. The notion of double effect applies to all such situations.

 

[QContinuum]

Thank you for your response. I continue to read this thread with interest.

 

[drjsp]

What will be particularly interesting is when, sometime in the not-so-distant future, an artificial uterus will exist that can support human life from the early cellular state through 9 months of gestation. One one side, there will be an opportunity (possibly) to rescue unwanted frozen embryos and embryos that are in a situation where mom’s life is at risk and there’s a likely negative double effect.

On the other, there’s an opportunity to misuse such technology and create “factory” people.

There’s a good book on the subject of the morality of embryo rescue but the name escapes me.

 

[Anrakyr]

There are two patients and each must be cared for as well as possible. Direct abortion is impermissible under catholic moral principles.

Entropic Pregnancy are always unviable. Both the child and mother will die if nothing is done so we opt to save the mother since nothing can be done to save the child.

What will be particularly interesting is when, sometime in the not-so-distant future, an artificial uterus will exist that can support human life from the early cellular state through 9 months of gestation. One one side, there will be an opportunity (possibly) to rescue unwanted frozen embryos and embryos that are in a situation where mom’s life is at risk and there’s a likely negative double effect.

Now that’s an interesting question.

 

[drjsp]

Now that’s an interesting question.

I’m planning on writing a paper on the subject…someday.

 

[Anicette]

Did you see Post #83? The US Bishops have provided guidance and I attached their Ethical Directions document.

As it is an US bishops document, it only concerned the American, not the entire Church. I am not an American, so I am not concerned.

Of course, taking account of all the patients. Catholic principles hold that the embryo cannot be directly killed (which is surely to DO harm), and so any procedure that does that is unacceptable. Do you agree?

Yes, I agree.
Yet, you can choose whatever procedure you want for ectopic pregnancy. you advocate that only one can be used. But the results of all is the death of the embryo in all cases. You also should be aware that in some (or many?) cases the embryo is already dead when is existance is discovered. I don’t think it is possible to be certain in all circunstances.
So the way to procede does not count so much, and certainely fertility and harm done to the mother is much more important.

We should not burden people with no to very small point. It is possibly misplaced sorry to- an armchair theologian- to insinuated that what some women may do is murder in this circunstances. And in the end, it them (and their husband) who will bear the consequences.

 

[Rau]

Both the child and mother will die if nothing is done so we opt to save the mother since nothing can be done to save the child.

Of course, but we avoid directly killing the child as a means to save. The debate is about acceptable means, not whether mum is to be saved.

 

[Rau]

Yet, you can choose whatever procedure you want for ectopic pregnancy. you advocate that only one can be used.

The church advocates no direct killing because such is impermissible and that is a statement by the universal church.

But the results of all is the death of the embryo in all cases.

That’s well understood but does not change the principle that we may not directly kill.

So the way to procede does not count so much, and certainely fertility and harm done to the mother is much more important.

Much more important than what? Earlier you agreed we must not kill. Are you now saying that if we have doubt about the status of the embryo, any approach is ok because it might be dead?

 

[Anrakyr]

No we don’t. It’s aborted.

 

[Rau]

No we don’t. It’s aborted.

That’s no a constructive addition to a discussion on a serious issue.