Discussion: Islam

[richardeekw]

I think the Muslims are one of the most difficult people to talk to about “Religion”

As Dr Scott Hahn said, in one of his intended debates that was called off by them because
Calling God - Father is a No, No to them.
Calling Jesus the only Begotton Son of God is not acceptable as their reply is " God has no son"
Only God in “One” and our Trinitarian Belief in the One God is “contradiction” to the Muslims.

The Muslims start on the premis that the Angel Gabriel has :dictated God’s Word to Mohammad, His last Prophet sent to earth and all other teachings and “Scriptures” are corrupted.

The common thread is in our belief in “God” - Monotheism.
So evangelisation is by way of common “good works” in acts of mercy like feeding the hungry, in hospitals and the like. Only the Holy Spirit can penetrate through their hearts to search for the Truth in His “fullness of time”

Hence it is no point to debate with them; (unless they invite us to ) but rather look at ourselves and see what we can learn from them

• Fasting
• Prayer
• Charity
• “True” Brotherhood" living in Communities.

and to evangelize with them in JOY for the common good of Human Life.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

robin_hood:

One project I would suggest is a area of Catholic answers to deal with Islam, How to Evangelise them and to answer there objections.

You have to be careful; Islamic scriptures claim that Christians are unbelievers (Qur’an 5:17), and effectively, it has shut us out from being able to share the Gospel with Muslims.

I think the only way to Evangelise to Muslims is via Mary, Our Lady of Fatima. Bishop Fulton Sheen expressed this the best in his 1952 book, “The World’s First Love” where he devoted a chapter to Mary and Muslims. He noticed that Muslims have an interesting attraction to Our Lady of Fatima and noted that Fatima is also the name of Muhammed’s favourite daughter whom he regards her as the highest woman in Heaven after Our Lady. (Muhammed is Islam’s lone prophet.)

There are millions of places in our world, but God may very well have chosen Fatima in Portugal for the miracles to take place, simply because of it’s name. This is believed to attract Muslims to follow Our Lady, who can lead us to God through her Son, Jesus Christ. (God came to be with us through Mary, and so Catholics believe that we can be with God through Mary.)

Some say the name, Fatima, is just a co-incidence, but others say it’s a God-incidence. There are over a billion Muslims in the world today who are faithful and believe in God, The Creator. But they do not know the Word of God. Who will teach them the Gospel? Could Mary, Our Lady of Fatima, be our hope for Muslims?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hence it is no point to debate with them; (unless they invite us to ) but rather look at ourselves and see what we can learn from them

• Fasting
• Prayer
• Charity
• “True” Brotherhood" living in Communities.

and to evangelize with them in JOY for the common good of Human Life.

That’s a really good point. I think if you study the history of catholicism carefully, you’ll probably find that we catholics adopted many pagan traditions and rituals to assimilate and win the hearts and souls of those pagans. (A classic example is to celebrate the birth of Jesus, Christmas, on the pagan feast of Winter Solstice [ie, Dec 25]. This helped to win the hearts of ancient Romans.)

I’m not suggesting that catholics around the world should observe Ramadan and a pilgrimage to Mecca; but I wouldn’t be surprised if sometime in the future (probably not in our lifetime) that this rituals make their way into some sort of Middle Eastern Catholic tradition. Wishful thinking maybe…

 

[Eden]

The common thread is in our belief in “God” - Monotheism.

That’s true from our point of view, but Muslims believe that we worship three gods. So, I’m not sure we can convince them this is a common thread because to believe we are monotheists contradicts the teachings of Muhammed.

Anyway, I agree with the OP that more materials for outreach to Muslims is needed.

 

[exoflare]

That’s true from our point of view, but Muslims believe that we worship three gods. So, I’m not sure we can convince them this is a common thread because to believe we are monotheists contradicts the teachings of Muhammed.

Anyway, I agree with the OP that more materials for outreach to Muslims is needed.

Exactly. EVERYTHING that a Muslim believes is based first and foremost on a blind assumption that everything Mohammed taught must be correct. It doesn’t matter how much the teachings go against common sense. I’m not so sure how to address this key issue, though - it seems to be different depending on the individual Muslim you’re talking to. But one thing seems for sure… if you are unable to convince them that there is no reason to blindly take Mo at his every word, the rest of the dominoes aren’t likely to fall into place either.

 

[Montalban]

Exactly. EVERYTHING that a Muslim believes is based first and foremost on a blind assumption that everything Mohammed taught must be correct. It doesn’t matter how much the teachings go against common sense. I’m not so sure how to address this key issue, though - it seems to be different depending on the individual Muslim you’re talking to. But one thing seems for sure… if you are unable to convince them that there is no reason to blindly take Mo at his every word, the rest of the dominoes aren’t likely to fall into place either.

In debates I have found this to be true. They try several arguments at once.

I found this especially over the issue of Aisha’s age. For those who don’t know of Muhammad’s nine wives Aisha was the youngest. She was only nine at the time the marriage was ‘consummated’.

The typical replies are often relativist ones…

Relativist Arguments
It was relative to the culture

Which is false because Moslems claim Muhammad is an example for all time, which is why they do allow such marriages today.

Other peoples have done the same
This is true. But it doesn’t make it right. King John, of England married Isabella of Angoulême who was not only 20 years younger than he, but 13 years old. However we don’t follow John’s example. We don’t say “We do this thing, because King John did it”.

Arguments to uncertainty
A claim is made that if you calculate her age by events in the Hadith, one might think she was 14 years old. This is a self-defeating argument because it supposes that their own texts are in error; in the context that the ones that say she was nine are specifically saying that she was nine, it’s remarkable that a Moslem would propose that you can’t trust his own holy books.

Arguments to irrelevance
Nobody complained

They argue no one objected. This is true, but it doesn’t make it right. Secondly, most who objected to Muhammad in anything ended up dead.

Nobody should care

The argument goes something like “Today nobody should care about this as it was not a major part of Islam”. This however is important because Moslems today still see him as an example for all time, and that their god should have been aware of the damage this sort of thing can do to a child. Given that they call a man who slept with a child their prophet, it shows the degraded basis of their religion.

 

[Joannes]

Just some thoughts:

I think that I would hit the character of Mohamed and contrast him with Jesus. Mohamed was NOT HOLY, as his plundering, killing, childmolesting, his rank superstition, his spiritism, and even his own words attest. Jesus, however, is without fault, and even the Quran attests to this. How then would Jesus require someone of Mohamed’s caliber to complete His work?

Then hit the Quran as well for its contradictions and gross superstition and so on. It is not from God, regardless of how fine its Arabic is. And indeed some of it makes sense only within a Christian framework: I refer to its teaching regarding the excellence of the Virgin Mary. Although I appreciate Moslem reverence for Our Lady, I have to ask, what sense is there to exalting Mary over everybody, even Mohamed’s daughter Fatima, if her son Jesus is just a man, and indeed one less important than Mohamed? What sense is there within Islam to make an issue of Jesus’ being saved from death on the Cross? I’d say NONE, though this teaching makes sense within Christianity, being a relic of a Christian heresy, Docetism.

We need to get Moslems (1) to read the Bible, and (2) to begin textual criticism of the Quran.

Regards,
Joannes

 

[murtad]

inJESUS:

indeed…i always read non-Catholic rebuttals to Islamic misconceptions…we need more Catholic sites.

Yes, I’m amazed that there is so few Catholic rebuttals to Islam.

InJESUS, are you an ex-Muslim or ex-Muslimah? Have you heard of St John of Damascus rebuttal to the heresy of Islam? That is very ancient one written in the early Islamic era.

 

[richardeekw]

The difficulty in an objective discussion on Religion with the Muslims is that

• They start with the “Koran” as the Final text DICTATED by the Angel Gabriel to Mohammad, the Prophet of God … because…and all other Scriptures are corrupted…

To the Muslims (probably due to the numerous numbers in less developed countries; many follow “Blind faith” on Charismatic Fundamentalist Muslim leaders) there appears to be more “fundamentalists” around ready to extinguish anyone who speaks against their teaching from the face of this earth…which is not so when speaking to true Muslims properly educated in their faith and ready to dialogue for the betterment of humanity.

To the Catholics… it is always… forgive… forgive… forgive… pray for them… live in peace… AMEN.

e.g. in Malaysia… a Muslim conversionsion to Christianity is almost a taboo because there is an underlying thread that “Born a Muslim (into a Muslim family)… always a Muslim…” … apparantly similar for Catholics to insist on baptism of Children into the family of God in Christianity.

It will be good if a Muslim and a Catholic Scholar having good knowledge of both wite on FACTS of how Each Holy Book is developed. and basis of each belief in a comparative format.and preferably in CHART comparative format

God Bless

 

[Jo_Benedict]

New thread created from a previous thread in the New Projects sub-forum. Please continue the discussion here. Thanks!

 

[inJESUS]

good posts by all. But you still dont get the picture. We CANNOT evangelize Muslims since their leaders spoon feed them, as soon as they learn how to speak, that the Bible is corrupt. the same technique used by satan btw, when he made Eve question God’s word.

they don’t care when, by whom and they don’t care for proof, cuz they haven’t got any so it’s enough to say Allah knows best machallah. Forget about logic with them. If Muhammad says the ocean is pink then it is pink.

The Muslim apostates are either Muslims who used some logic and guts to question their holy prophet, or Muslims who saw Jesus in visions. I do not negate , though, that i know Muslims who converted after listening to priests preaching.

But on forums, Muslims come here , thinking they know everything about our religion because the “Quran says so”…and when we prove the Quran is wrong, then they insist we don’t know what we believe in. Don’t bother to preach to these people, cuz the only who argues with a fool, is himself a fool.

Murtad, am not sure i read it. Any link?thx

 

[Montalban]

good posts by all. But you still dont get the picture. We CANNOT evangelize Muslims since their leaders spoon feed them, as soon as they learn how to speak, that the Bible is corrupt. the same technique used by satan btw, when he made Eve question God’s word.

They’re warned that Christians are deceivers.

Islam is true submission, involving suspension of critical thinking