Discussion of Exterior Signs of Interior Reverence and Holy Communion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lux_et_veritas
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Lux_et_veritas

Guest


I would like to get some serious dialogue on this from those who have, or will read, listen and watch the material put out by, and on, Bishop Athanasius Schneider of Kazakhstan with regards to Holy Communion and exterior signs of reverence, veneration, and adoration.

The bishop has an extraordinary ability to explain things in a way that is not condescending or sharp. It is conducive to reflection and reasoning. God’s love is very much manifested in his speech on this topic.

For those who do not know, this young bishop, born in 1961, was consecrated in 2006 in the Vatican by Cardinal Angelo Sodano. Interestingly, this followed an address he made to the Synod of Bishops on the Eucharist in 2005. Pope Benedict heard him speak.

After he was ordained a bishop, he told us in talks this past weekend, that he felt a heavy responsibility to educate the faithful about the Eucharist and was prompted by his conscience to study the Rite of the Eucharist through the ages and write a book. He pointed out that it is a bishop’s responsibility to make sure the faithful undertand that Communion is the Lord - the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity.

He looked into what the Father’s of the Church had to say, as well. This led him to write his book, Dominus Est (It is the Lord). The book is 2/3 translated into English with no date on availability yet.

The bishop is on his way back to Karaganda, Kazakhstan after spending about ten days in the US, including several days at my parish - Assumption Grotto in Detroit, and at EWTN where he celebrated Mass and underwent an interview to be televised at a later date (I understand sometime later this year, but not sure which program).

Please listen to this incredible interview with Al Kresta of Ave Maria Radio. Not sure how long it will be available, but I’m linking directly to the interview. You can call 734-930-4546 to get a CD of the talk. Just tell them it was Al Kresta’s interview with Bishop Athanasius Schneider on July 28th, 2008

Here are some related posts I have made at my blog on the Bishop and his visit to the United States:
 
I think that will change over time as people actually hear him, see him and ponder his words. People are caught up in the emotion and the bishop has a way of diffusing emotion and just getting people to stop and think.

I had looked for a thread on it and hadn’t found it. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
OK - I have breezed through (literally) that very large thread and I don’t see the kind of discussion I had anticipated here.

I am hoping to have discussion among those who have spent time reading and watching the two things I have at the bottom of this post a as a bare minimum before engaging in comments.

In that thread, I see many comments made that would not have been made if they knew fully what the gentle bishop from Kazakhstan were promoting. It all needs context. It helps to understand his background, having grown up in the underground Catholic Church in the former Soviet Union republic of Kazakhstan. This is a man who made his First Holy Communion in secrecy.

To hear him speak about the Eucharist is humble for anyone regardless of which authorized method of reception they use. I think a good many people are going to change their positions once they understand it as he presents it, using the Father’s of the Church, and explaining HOW it was received in the early Church. **People mistakenly think that when it is said that Communion was received in the hand it was the same as today. **

It was entirely different and, as he points out, if we go back to the way it was done back then, we have lots more to do, such as fasting for 3 days, having hands purified, etc. Not to mention that in the history of the Church, women have never received Communion straight on the hand. A type of Corporal was used to drape over the palm. In addition, communicants who did receive in the hand, received it in the right palm, but not before special preparations. A profound bow was made as the person brought their mouth to their palm. Then there was a whole ritual afterwards.

The bishop also points out that in the early Church Communion was received very rarely and not before Confession. In his talks at Assumption Grotto he went into detail about his.

To get real dialouge, and to critique the bishop’s position, one has to first know it and unless you invest some time listening, watching and reading, you can’t really know it well enough to do that. We can certainly open it up again after the book comes out in English. It is loaded with facts and footnotes which enhance our understanding of Communion throughout the history of the Church and gives context to how Our Lord has been received through the centuries.

Ask the Holy Spirit and Our Lady for assistance and understanding.

Historical-Liturgical Notes on the Rite of the Eucharist by Bishop Athanasius Schneider (L’Osservatore Romano) (15 minute read)

An interview with Bishop Schneider (9 minute Gloria TV Interview)

As long as you can get it online, I also highly recommend this:

Al Kresta on Bishop Athanasius Schneider… (about 45 minutes)
 
Wow. A very moving testament to the sacred. We should reproduce it here and the link for the other testimonies is above. Taken from

SYNODUS EPISCOPORUM BULLETIN
XI ORDINARY GENERAL ASSEMBLY
OF THE SYNOD OF BISHOPS
2-23 October 2005

Rev. Athanasius SCHNEIDER. O.R.S., Spiritual Father and Director of Studies of the Major Seminary of Karaganda. Secretary of the Liturgical Commission of the Episcopal Conference (KAZAKHSTAN)

I spent my infancy and the first part of my adolescence in the Soviet Union. Sacramental life, and especially the Eucharistic one, had to unfold in secrecy. What struck me in a deep way, and has remained as a living impression in my memory was the attitude towards Holy Communion, which I would describe as ars communicandi, in allusion to the expression ars celebrandi. I give the examples of two priests of that time. The first is Blessed Alessio Saritski, who died martyred in Kazakhstan (+30/10/1963). In the fifties, during his clandestine visits to the deported Catholics in the Urali mountains, where my parents were to be found, my mother asked him to leave a consecrated host for her seriously ill mother, who ardently wanted to receive Holy Communion one more time before dying, since she didn’t know if or when a priest would return to that distant region. Blessed Alessio left a consecrated host with my mother, instructing her to administrate Holy Communion in the most reverent way possible. When the appropriate moment arrived, my mother put on some white gloves, and with a pair of tweezers gave Holy communion to her sick mother, and this was her last Communion. While administering Holy communion to her, my mother herself ardently desired to receive it, but not being able to do so sacramentally, she did so in a spiritual way. Some years passed still, before my mother could receive Holy Communion. But that spiritual communion gave her the strength to remain faithful during the time of persecution, and to transmit love and respect for the Eucharist to her children. The other example is Father Janis Pawlowski. He also spent time in the Stalinist lagers of Kazakhstan and later died in a holy was in Lithuania (+09/05/2000). He administered first Communion to me in secrecy. We were a small group of children. The external circumstances were rather modest, but there was great interior feasting in the soul, and Fr. Pawlowski used to say to us: make sure you make every Communion as if it were your first and last Communion.
 
Fergal,

The testimony he gives there is only a glimpse into what formed his Catholic thought.

He goes into more detail in his talks at Assumption Grotto about his youth, and into even more detail about the history of how Holy Communion was distributed through the centuries.

The talks were recorded by someone, but we probably won’t see any availability for about 2 months.
 
Lux_et_veritas said:
Fergal,

The testimony he gives there is only a glimpse into what formed his Catholic thought.

He goes into more detail in his talks at Assumption Grotto about his youth, and into even more detail about the history of how Holy Communion was distributed through the centuries.

The talks were recorded by someone, but we probably won’t see any availability for about 2 months.
Click to expand...
Actually, a regular member here at CAF is quite involved at Grotto… so perhaps there will be a linked access quite SOON:thumbsup:
 
MrS said:
Actually, a regular member here at CAF is quite involved at Grotto… so perhaps there will be a linked access quite SOON:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Yes - several of us from Grotto are members here at CAF.

I have spoken with the priest who is responsible for it’s release and he said it would have to wait until September before decisions can be made as to how it will be released (MP3’s online, CD’s or both).

I recorded it myself and got a pretty good digital recording (I used it as backup since their system failed once). However, out of respect for those who typically handle such recordings, I’m going to wait.

Essentially, they need to do the usual post process editing. There were some real audio problems there in the gym and they may be able to fine tune those out or dial them down. I’m lucky they are not overly pronounced in my audio and perhaps not in theres. But, they just don’t have time to do that tinkering right now.

If I get a chance this weekend, I may sit down with the audio I have and create a transcript. I would like to capture it on paper, but you have to hear him speak them. He has such an air of humility and love that those words on paper don’t carry the same weight as those spoken directly by him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top