Discussion On the Gospel for Sunday, Jan. 14

[MariaG]

On the literal sense, they were guests at the wedding. But on an allegorical sense, we can say the wedding is Jesus’ and Mary’s. I think that the meaning I tried to convey follows “sound interpretation” and is based on the literal, not to mention fruitful.

Because Mary represents the Church as a whole?

I am trying to get a better handle on this and when I look up in the Catechism, Christ’s spouse is always refered to as the Church.

So in an allegorical sense this is Christ’s wedding with the spotless Church, perfectly represented by Mary?

**757 **“The Church, further, which is called ‘that Jerusalem which is above’ and ‘our mother’, is described as the spotless spouse of the spotless lamb. It is she whom Christ ‘loved and for whom he delivered himself up that he might sanctify her.’ It is she whom he unites to himself by an unbreakable alliance, and whom he constantly ‘nourishes and cherishes.’”

 

[HailMary]

Because Mary represents the Church as a whole?

I am trying to get a better handle on this and when I look up in the Catechism, Christ’s spouse is always refered to as the Church.

So in an allegorical sense this is Christ’s wedding with the spotless Church, perfectly represented by Mary?

**757 **“The Church, further, which is called ‘that Jerusalem which is above’ and ‘our mother’, is described as the spotless spouse of the spotless lamb. It is she whom Christ ‘loved and for whom he delivered himself up that he might sanctify her.’ It is she whom he unites to himself by an unbreakable alliance, and whom he constantly ‘nourishes and cherishes.’”

The Spouse of Christ is the Church (see Ephesians 5), yes, and I have heard some say that Mary is a type of Church but that isn’t what I meant when I said the Wedding at Cana was for Jesus and Mary.

What I meant was that the marital bond between man and woman is Sacramental and I understand this passage, allegorically, to be describing that on a mystical level, Jesus and Mary share such a love for each other, far beyond marital love (in fact, Divine love), and this is what the sacred human author is most likely referring too (St. John is called the Eagle for a reason!).

The Real Author, the Holy Spirit, is the spouse of Mary since they had a Child together.

At the end of the day, we can say, the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Daughter of God the Father, the Mother of God Incarnate, Jesus Christ ,the Son of God, and the Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

And in my Rosaries, I say, “Come O Holy Spirit, come by the means of the powerful Intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Your well-beloved spouse…”

I hope this helps.

O Queen of Mercy, pray for us!

 

[Fidelis]

So in an allegorical sense this [the wedding of Cana] is Christ’s wedding with the spotless Church, perfectly represented by Mary?

This may true in a VERY allegorical sense. I think, however, if we go beyond how the Church has taught on this, we start getting into pious speculation, which, edifying though it might be, can be far from the literal meaning of the text. For the purposes of this thread, I’d prefer not go too deeply onto those types of rabbit trails. Thanks!

Where the Church has spoken, as in the Catechism section you provided:

**757 **“The Church, further, which is called ‘that Jerusalem which is above’ and ‘our mother’, is described as the spotless spouse of the spotless lamb. It is she whom Christ ‘loved and for whom he delivered himself up that he might sanctify her.’ It is she whom he unites to himself by an unbreakable alliance, and whom he constantly ‘nourishes and cherishes.’”

…we know we are on solid ground.

As for our current question:

**How does Jesus’ use of the word “woman” (v. 3) point to a parallel between Eve and Mary (Genesis 3:15; John 19:26-27; Revelation 12:1-6, 13-14)? Should it be seen as a sign of disrespect—or a sign of honor and election? **

Any thoughts?

 

[dessert]

Our priest gave a nice story with his homily but it is too long to write but his conclusion was good. Always invite Jesus and Mary to your wedding and to the table of the feast of the sacrament of the Eucharist at the table of our lord.
He is cool1 dessert

 

[Fidelis]

Our priest gave a nice story with his homily but it is too long to write but his conclusion was good. Always invite Jesus and Mary to your wedding and to the table of the feast of the sacrament of the Eucharist at the table of our lord.
He is cool1 dessert

Our priest said something similar at Mass this morning: He said, “How much trouble do we go through to have the perfect weddings, but how many of us invite Jesus to be an abiding guest in our marriages?”

**How does Jesus’ use of the word “woman” (v. 3) point to a parallel between Eve and Mary (Genesis 3:15; John 19:26-27; Revelation 12:1-6, 13-14)? Should it be seen as a sign of disrespect—or a sign of honor and election? **

Perhaps we can address the second question first.

Have you ever thought (or heard from someone else) that Jesus came across as dismissive or even disrespectful by referring to his Mother Mary as “woman”?

 

[dessert]

The strongs exhaustive concordance gives definitions of the word for woman. the old testament uses the (hebrew) for a wide sense of definitions each, every, female, wife or woman.
The new testament in (greek) has more specific definitons and many and it says more specific wife and woman and also used as a verb. Used with great latitude
man in gender, mortal person, stranger, servant
to cause to be
to become into being
to be assemble
to come to pass
be fullfilled
be married
be ordained
be taken
to be didided
be wrought

dessert

 

[dessert]

Our priest said something similar at Mass this morning: He said, “How much trouble do we go through to have the perfect weddings, but how many of us invite Jesus to be an abiding guest in our marriages?”
Perhaps we can address the second question first.

Have you ever thought (or heard from someone else) that Jesus came across as dismissive or even disrespectful by referring to his Mother Mary as “woman”?

No I do not think that Jesus was ever disrespectfull to Mary His mother. Jesus referring to his mother as woman I had not given much thought to but did wonder why He didn’t call her mother. The only Jesus group will not criizize speciffically Mary but do not give her any honor ither.

Yes I have if you want to know our choir director just last sunday as he makes spsh spsh quiet comments as the father said ask Jesus and Mary into your life, “It doesn’t say that in the bible” and walked away in his usual irritated way. We have 4 Mary’s in our group of ten so that even irritates him even mor e and yes our priest is aware of it thinking that the cd will convert oh well isn’t this interesting and of course our attendance is dwindleing . Everything has been coming against our church satying open eventhe diocese but I did get some contrib up from some docs I know and hop to get at least even but we have a big dragon in our mist.this makes for dramatic mass as other visitors have said. What ever is God’s will I pray !

In verse 16 of REv 12 says But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spued out of its mouth. What is the earth? That is the only verse that my NAB leaves out and has great explanations on the rest of ALL the verses?
17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest fo her offspring,those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
18 It took it’s position on the sand of the sea. Is this referring to the dragon as my bible says later it later later versions say I took my position.

If all you are saying is correct our cd is a dragon as others call him an atheist and communist and our priest who never talked much about Mary in the beginning is trying to cover his own tracks and backtrack when he gets told by the nun. Becauseee I think he is from the east but not saying that is so wrong but when we had the Immaculate Conception, during the service he said consumption several times and this was not kosher as he acted like he didn’t know the word or he was making fun? I think he didn’t know the word or he is just playing mind games who knows? dessert

Usually they are mad at heir mother for some reason?

 

[Fidelis]

No I do not think that Jesus was ever disrespectful to Mary His mother. Jesus referring to his mother as woman I had not given much thought to but did wonder why He didn’t call her mother. The only Jesus group will not criizize speciffically Mary but do not give her any honor ither.

The fact that he did not call her Mother highlights what he did call her, which is “Woman.” This immediately calls to mind other times in Scripture in which this term is applied.

The first and foremost is Genesis 3:15, in what is called the protoevangelium, the first gospel.Here, God seems to refer to Eve as “woman,” though immediately we realize that the prophecy as being in the future, by someone other than Eve. Perhaps someone would like to expand further in this, but the early Church Fathers identified Mary as the New Eve, just like Jesus was the New, or Second, Adam (Romans 5:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45).

In verse 16 of Rev 12 says:

• But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spued out of its mouth. *

What is the earth? That is the only verse that my NAB leaves out and has great explanations on the rest of ALL the verses?

According to the Navarre Bible commentary, it may be a reference to Numbers 16:30-45). Just as those who rebelled against God were swallowed by the earth, so the righteous will be protected and vindicated.

17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest fo her offspring,those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
18 It took it’s position on the sand of the sea.

Is this referring to the dragon as my bible says later it later later versions say I took my position.

Various Greek manuscripts say one or the other. The New Vulgate, the official translation of the Church, says “it.” (Navarre Bible)