Discussion on the Qu'ran and Hadith

[Eucharisted]

This thread is not for bashing Islam or Muslims, this thread is for revealing the ridiculous claims and beliefs of Islam, most of which Muslims are afraid to tell non-Muslims because they believe non-Muslims just won’t understand them (at least, that’s my assumption of why Muslims don’t tell these silly beliefs to others).

Below is a list of nonsense which I’ve gathered from the Koran and from Hadiths.

• If you fart during prayer, your prayers won’t be answered
• Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Spirit
• The Holy Spirit is an angel
• Jesus is the Messiah but He never fulfilled the OT prophecies
• Adam was created from fire
• Satan is a jinn, not an angel
• Christians and Jews will not go to Hell
• Christians and Jews will go to Hell
• On the last day, Jesus will kill the Jews
• Jesus was never crucified nor did He die
• Muslims must face Jerusalem when praying
• Muslims must face Mecca when praying
• Islam was proclaimed by all of the great OT and NT prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jesus
• Islam will no longer be practiced before the last day
• Angels don’t have free-wills
• On the last day everyone will ask Jesus to pray for them, but he will tell mankind to ask Mohammed instead
• On the last day Jesus will rebuke the law of the gospel
• Before the last day, Muslims must fight the Jews
• Muslims can’t talk to their brothers for more than three days
• Actions are judged by God based on intentions
• Christian exaggerate in praising Jesus

• The fart belief I got from another user on CAF on another thread.

Muslims, feel free to argue these claims. Non-Muslims, feel free to add anything you know about Islam.

Again, no bashing Islam or Muslims.

 

[inJESUS]

nop, the Quran does not mention the Holy Spirit while adressing the Christian belief but Mary instead.

• The Holy Spirit is an angel

according to their interpretations yet you will find not one single Quranic verse saying the Holy Spirit is Gabriel. On the other hand, you will find verse differentiating between angels and the Spirit, the same applies to hadith.

• Jesus is the Messiah but He never fulfilled the OT prophecies

am not sure this is either in quran or hadith.

• Adam was created from fire

not according to Quram.

• Muslims can’t talk to their brothers for more than three days

never heard of this.

• Actions are judged by God based on intentions

actions are by intentions…a hadith.

the rest are correct.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Sister_Amy]

This thread is not for bashing Islam or Muslims, this thread is for revealing the ridiculous claims and beliefs of Islam, most of which Muslims are afraid to tell non-Muslims because they believe non-Muslims just won’t understand them (at least, that’s my assumption of why Muslims don’t tell these silly beliefs to others).

That is bashing Islam. That’s kind of like saying I’m not coloring with a blue crayon, it’s navy. Whatever.

• If you fart during prayer, your prayers won’t be answered

That’s pretty stupid.
There are two kinds of prayer in Islam, and the kind which is “answered” is the kind which is a request, a supplication, known as du’a, and it doesn’t depend on physical purity at all. ON the other hand, if you decide to answer the call of nature while in a sanctified state, then obviously it’s going to disrupt that state. So you need to go wash again. Can’t you hold it until sometime when you aren’t bowing and prostrating before your Lord?

• Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Spirit

Christians believe that, do they? Muslims like myself thought Christians believe that the Trinity was supposed to be “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

• The Holy Spirit is an angel

Yep, Muslims believe taht. Gabriel is his name.

• Jesus is the Messiah but He never fulfilled the OT prophecies

The Qur’an calls him the Messiah, Christ.

• Adam was created from fire

Wrong. Muslims believe Adam was created from clay.

• Satan is a jinn, not an angel

Yes.

• Christians and Jews will not go to Hell

Why not?

• Christians and Jews will go to Hell

Make up your mind.

• On the last day, Jesus will kill the Jews

Never heard that one.

• Jesus was never crucified nor did He die

I believe that one alright.

• Muslims must face Jerusalem when praying

Wrong again.

• Muslims must face Mecca when praying

Good job.

• Islam was proclaimed by all of the great OT and NT prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jesus

Yep.

• Islam will no longer be practiced before the last day

Why’s that?

- Angels don’t have free-wills

“Free will” is the proper grammatical construct. Correct otherwise.

• On the last day everyone will ask Jesus to pray for them, but he will tell mankind to ask Mohammed instead

To pray for them? Weird. Oh you must mean intercession. Long hadith, they’re going to ask not just Jesus but Adam and Noah and Moses too.

• On the last day Jesus will rebuke the law of the gospel

Whatever.

• Before the last day, Muslims must fight the Jews

Interesting.

• Muslims can’t talk to their brothers for more than three days

That makes no sense.

• Actions are judged by God based on intentions

Not necessarily–what’s your point?

• Christian exaggerate in praising Jesus

Yeah, when they call him divine.

• The fart belief I got from another user on CAF on another thread.

Muslims, feel free to argue these claims. Non-Muslims, feel free to add anything you know about Islam.

Again, no bashing Islam or Muslims.

You started off bashing Islam, you know.

 

[planten]

This thread is not for bashing Islam or Muslims, this thread is for revealing the ridiculous claims and beliefs of Islam, most of which Muslims are afraid to tell non-Muslims because they believe non-Muslims just won’t understand them (at least, that’s my assumption of why Muslims don’t tell these silly beliefs to others).

You have made the post quite long. Reply may become very long for one post.

Below is a list of nonsense which I’ve gathered from the Koran and from Hadiths

.

Sorry, I have to reply within your post, Paras.

If you fart during prayer, your prayers won’t be answered

Correct, True. If any one relaxes (farts) or pisses or passes stool or sleeps, that person has to use fresh ablutions (Wudhu) before the prayer. But please you should mention about ablutions before the five daily prayers. Ablution is necessary. Only the person has to wash himsef again, that is all, and then continue his prayers.

• Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Spirit

The Quran does not say what the Trinity constitutes. It however accuses (or just mentions) the divinity of Mary. That is all.

• The Holy Spirit is an angel

That is true. That angel is mentioned in the bible too. It is his duty to convey messages from Allah to his messengers. All angels are spirits. The angel gabriel is called Rooh ul Ameen i.e. the trusted spirit. He has a few more names too. It is mentioned in the Quran that Jesus was aided / strengthened with the Holy Spirit.

- Jesus is the Messiah but He never fulfilled the OT prophecies

Yes, Jesus is called the Messiah. But I do not see any mention bout he not fulfilling any OT prophecies.

• Adam was created from fire

That is wrong. There is no mention of the creation of Adam in Quran. It is a wrong belief of the bibleOT that Adam was the first man on earth. We believe that there were many men on earth for a very long time (thousands of years ago). Adam was also a man wholived about 6000 years ago.He was the first man who given responsibilty and status of a prophet of God.

Further, I may say that there is no mention of the creation of Eve in the Quran.

• Satan is a jinn, not an angel

That is true. But one has to understand what is an angel and what is a Jinn and what is a human. .

Christians and Jews will not go to Hell

• I have not seen such things in Quran.

Christians and Jews will go to Hell

There is no such thing enblock. Every one, he may be a Jew or a christian or a muslim will be judged by his/her deeds. There is no order for all Jews to go to hell.

In fact, see the verse 2:62 of Quran. It tells that all well behaving peaceful Jews and Christians and Muslims will have no fear nor will they be sorry.

• On the last day, Jesus will kill the Jews

There is no such thing in Quran. But some Muslims believe such stories. Jesus who has died will never come in this world again. He will not come to kill any one.

More in next post…

 

[R_not]

In the thread ‘Catholics and muslims’, I just posted this one - adult suckling

Or how about the idea that allah is all knowing when he didn’t know this stuff:

allah says we cannot go out of the zone of the earth

allah says the mountains stand firm and stop the earth from moving

Or how about this one about Satan - this is the kicker: Satan has sex with himself and lays eggs

How can one write this stuff without it sounding like bashing islam. Here is the problem - it is ALL IN THEIR OWN TEXTS! muslims will ALWAYS say this is bashing because they don’t even know about their own prophet!

 

[R_not]

123

 

[ralphinal]

Does God care more about the cleanliness of the body or of the heart and soul?

 

[planten]

My reply is continued…

• Jesus was never crucified nor did He die

True 100 %. But please understand that he was put on the cross. Crucifixion means “To die on the cross”, not “just putting on the cross.”

• Muslims must face Jerusalem when praying

There was no such explicit order. The prophet used to follow the practice of the Jews until any new order was conveyed to him. So, while in Makkah and for one year in Madinah, all Muslims faced Jerusalem for daily prayers.

• Muslims must face Mecca when praying

That is true. There is a strict order to face Makkah (Ka’abah) for all the daily prayers. Since that command was revealed in the year 2 Hijah, Muslims stopped facing Jerusalem in prayers.

Islam was proclaimed by all of the great OT and NT prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jesus

That is true. The God is One. His message is also One. God did not teach one thing to one prophet and a totally different thing to the other prophet except somethign very minor.

The main theme of the religious teaching has been monotheism. i.e. the unitarian faith. That was the teaching of all prophets It was the submission to the will of God. COLOR]

• Islam will no longer be practiced before the last day

Perhaps, there will not be any Qiyamat (upheaval, end of the world) as long as some religion existed. The dooms day will fall on the disbelievers, when there is no believer (Jew or Christian or muslim) in the world.

• Angels don’t have free-wills

Yes. 100 % true. They obey the command of Allah. They perform their duties on mankind. They do not die and do not eat. They do not decide. They do not have will power. they are the obedient servants of God/Allah. The angels will not be judged in the end.

But men have will power and the Jinn also have will power. So the men and the Jinn will be questioned in the end and they will be judged. They willbe sent to paradise or hell.

More in next post…

 

[R_not]

mohammed changed the way his followers face from Jerusalem to mecca because he was getting disgusted over the fact that the Jews were not ‘buying’ his new ‘religion’ and so mohammed decided to change it to where his pagan religion was based in, and that was mecca, where his pagan’s religion stone was and where the statue of allah used to be located at.

since islam was a bloody ‘religion’ they probably had to do ablutions to rid the blood off of their bodies before praying.

 

[R_not]

my first guess on their over concern about farting is that - well, you know how some guys are about farting! It is funny. After a battle, the cook cooks up a batch of beans and hey, you know how those farts start coming!

Well, with mohammed having so many mental problems and even islam’s own texts tell us how sullen mohammed was - he was totally unable to have a little levity. OR!!! Was it that mohammed found farting to be funny!! And if he heard a fart - mohammed would actually laugh!

In the thread ‘Ask about islam2’, post #274 or #275, I go over some of the problems that mohammed had. And with the over concern with rituals and rites being a side effect of his mental problems - this could be a part of that.

mohammed was a troubled person and the problem is not so much that mohammed had mental problems - but that people followed such a guy. That is what baffles me.

 

[planten]

More reply…

• On the last day everyone will ask Jesus to pray for them, but he will tell mankind to ask Mohammed instead.

Yes, some muslims believe like that. But it does not seem to be the teaching of the Quran and need not be pursued.

- On the last day Jesus will rebuke the law of the gospel

It is difficult to comment on such things. I am not able to say anything about such things. It is possible that the christians have altered the teachings of Jesus. In that case he may rebuke the so-called christians.

- Before the last day, Muslims must fight the Jews

No such thing. I assure you that there is no order to fight the Jews or the Christians or the Hindus. In fact,there is not tobe any war on the basis of religion. It is forbidden to fight for the difference of religion. People of All religions should now co-operate with each order to help the faithless (atheists) people to come to God.

• Muslims can’t talk to their brothers for more than three days

Yes, it is advised in the Hadith that a Muslims should not break relations with a Muslim for more than three days. It is considered bad.

• Actions are judged by God based on intentions

Yes, it is the Hadith number One recorded in the books. It is true that actions depend on intentions. That is a matter of the worldly law too. For every crime, the intention (will) is taken into consideration. No harm in that. It is a proved fact.

• Christian exaggerate in praising Jesus

Yes they do. We do not mind if christians praise Jesus. But it should be within limits. Not to exaggerate. The Quran has told us that the Jews downplay ( reduce) the status of the men of God and even try to kill them. The ordeal of Jesus on hands of the Jews of his time is good proof and example.

Similarly, the Quran has told us that the christians do the opposite. They overplay the man of God (Jesus). They raise his rank above what he really was. He was a mere man. They make Jesus into a god. That is an example of over-exaggeration. that is true.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Does God care more about the cleanliness of the body or of the heart and soul?

Isn’t the heart in the body?

Purification is important in Islam. Purification of the body, purification of wealth, purification of the soul, and so on.

This past weekend a sheikh was visiting my city who has written a book on the subject of ‘Purification of the Heart.’ His name is Hamza Yusuf… I suggest you look into that book. He goes over the diseases of the heart and their cures, and in fact it was a very interesting seminar he gave this weekend on a slightly similar subject.

But the book talks about such diseases of the spiritual heart, like miserliness for instance. He talks about why it is a disease–that it shows a distrust in provision from God–and how it manifests itself in the limbs–refusing to give charity, hoarding wealth, etc. He also talks about some cures of miserliness, like forcing oneself to give in charity, and also fasting I think.

But there is an idea in Islam that physical purity and spiritual purity are intertwined, but spiritual purity is the overwhelming emphasis of the Islamic religion. Physical purity is more like procedure. Let me give you an example of one ayah from the Qur’an which is about menstruation:

2:222 And they ask you about menstruation. Say, “It is a harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation. And do not approach them until they are pure. And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves.”

In fact it’s such an interesting ayah because it starts out talking about something from a legal perspective, and ends with the spiritual perspective. The subject is a woman’s menstruation, and first it describes it as being harmful for women (and it can be incredibly painful, let me tell you.) So this is a time when a man is not supposed to approach his wife for intercourse. She gets a break during this time, to sort of rest and also she might not be feeling well. At the end of a woman’s period she makes a ritual purification and move on, and then her husband is allowed to resume marital intimacy with her.

But then there is this twist in the ayah about repentance. Why? The ayah isn’t really talking about sin that much. But you can see here the direct analogy of physical purification with spiritual purification–repentance. Sometimes a person has to suffer something–and that suffering might be a purification for them, a purification from their sins. And a reminder to ask for forgiveness–and seeking forgiveness and repenting of sins is spiritual purification.

 

[Lapell]

This thread is not for bashing Islam or Muslims, this thread is for revealing the ridiculous claims and beliefs of Islam, most of which Muslims are afraid to tell non-Muslims because they believe non-Muslims just won’t understand them (at least, that’s my assumption of why Muslims don’t tell these silly beliefs to others).

Below is a list of nonsense which I’ve gathered from the Koran and from Hadiths.

• If you fart during prayer, your prayers won’t be answered
• Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Spirit
• The Holy Spirit is an angel
• Jesus is the Messiah but He never fulfilled the OT prophecies
• Adam was created from fire
• Satan is a jinn, not an angel
• Christians and Jews will not go to Hell
• Christians and Jews will go to Hell
• On the last day, Jesus will kill the Jews
• Jesus was never crucified nor did He die
• Muslims must face Jerusalem when praying
• Muslims must face Mecca when praying
• Islam was proclaimed by all of the great OT and NT prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jesus
• Islam will no longer be practiced before the last day
• Angels don’t have free-wills
• On the last day everyone will ask Jesus to pray for them, but he will tell mankind to ask Mohammed instead
• On the last day Jesus will rebuke the law of the gospel
• Before the last day, Muslims must fight the Jews
• Muslims can’t talk to their brothers for more than three days
• Actions are judged by God based on intentions
• Christian exaggerate in praising Jesus

Muslims, feel free to argue these claims. Non-Muslims, feel free to add anything you know about Islam.

Again, no bashing Islam or Muslims.

I have been quite away from CAF lately because I had thought it rather disrespectful of both religions and their adherents.
I was kind of fed up with all the discussions just intending to set traps to the other side. I feel that if Muslims have truly questions, truly respectful ones about our faith they should go to the Ask an Apologist item.
Sincerely, I wish I could really respectfully discuss certain points, but now would my questions be as respectful as I would think?
I wish I would be sure about it…

 

[Sister_Amy]

I have been quite away from CAF lately because I had thought it rather disrespectful of both religions and their adherents.
I was kind of fed up with all the discussions just intending to set traps to the other side. I feel that if Muslims have truly questions, truly respectful ones about our faith they should go to the Ask an Apologist item.
Sincerely, I wish I could really respectfully discuss certain points, but now would my questions be as respectful as I would think?
I wish I would be sure about it…

Nice to see you again.

 

[paul_c]

I would have to agree that this thread should be eliminated from the board. It is disrespectful and does not reflect the virtue of love. I give the Muslims here credit for patiently and graciously answering the charges. CAF can do much better than this. It should be about fostering mutual understanding of the truth…

 

[ralphinal]

Isn’t the heart in the body?

Purification is important in Islam. Purification of the body, purification of wealth, purification of the soul, and so on.

This past weekend a sheikh was visiting my city who has written a book on the subject of ‘Purification of the Heart.’ His name is Hamza Yusuf… I suggest you look into that book. He goes over the diseases of the heart and their cures, and in fact it was a very interesting seminar he gave this weekend on a slightly similar subject.

But the book talks about such diseases of the spiritual heart, like miserliness for instance. He talks about why it is a disease–that it shows a distrust in provision from God–and how it manifests itself in the limbs–refusing to give charity, hoarding wealth, etc. He also talks about some cures of miserliness, like forcing oneself to give in charity, and also fasting I think.

But there is an idea in Islam that physical purity and spiritual purity are intertwined, but spiritual purity is the overwhelming emphasis of the Islamic religion. Physical purity is more like procedure. Let me give you an example of one ayah from the Qur’an which is about menstruation:

2:222 And they ask you about menstruation. Say, “It is a harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation. And do not approach them until they are pure. And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves.”

In fact it’s such an interesting ayah because it starts out talking about something from a legal perspective, and ends with the spiritual perspective. The subject is a woman’s menstruation, and first it describes it as being harmful for women (and it can be incredibly painful, let me tell you.) So this is a time when a man is not supposed to approach his wife for intercourse. She gets a break during this time, to sort of rest and also she might not be feeling well. At the end of a woman’s period she makes a ritual purification and move on, and then her husband is allowed to resume marital intimacy with her.

But then there is this twist in the ayah about repentance. Why? The ayah isn’t really talking about sin that much. But you can see here the direct analogy of physical purification with spiritual purification–repentance. Sometimes a person has to suffer something–and that suffering might be a purification for them, a purification from their sins. And a reminder to ask for forgiveness–and seeking forgiveness and repenting of sins is spiritual purification.

Ok. I can see that part of it. However, is it just me or does it seem strange that God ignores us if we are dirty. I am not sure why passing gas is so evil.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ok. I can see that part of it. However, is it just me or does it seem strange that God ignores us if we are dirty. I am not sure why passing gas is so evil.

That was the misconception. God never ignores us.

Muslims can call on God any time of day, in any condition they’re in. Physical purification is not a pre-requisite for supplicating or remembering God.

 

[ralphinal]

That was the misconception. God never ignores us.

Muslims can call on God any time of day, in any condition they’re in. Physical purification is not a pre-requisite for supplicating or remembering God.

Ok.

So when can we not pray and be dirty?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ok.

So when can we not pray and be dirty?

Part of ritual prayer is ritual purity.

But not all prayer is ritual prayer. Calling on God, freely and openly, is not a ritual. Salaat is a ritual with physical and spiritual components, including physical purity to obtain spiritual purity.

 

[ralphinal]

Part of ritual prayer is ritual purity.

But not all prayer is ritual prayer. Calling on God, freely and openly, is not a ritual. Salaat is a ritual with physical and spiritual components, including physical purity to obtain spiritual purity.

Is it impossible to perform ritual prayer if you physically cannot get clean for one reason or another?