Discussion on the Qu'ran and Hadith

[Sister_Amy]

Is it impossible to perform ritual prayer if you physically cannot get clean for one reason or another?

No. If for some reason a person physically cannot get clean, then he is excused and prays anyway.

 

[R_not]

I would have to agree that this thread should be eliminated from the board. It is disrespectful and does not reflect the virtue of love. I give the Muslims here credit for patiently and graciously answering the charges. CAF can do much better than this. It should be about fostering mutual understanding of the truth…

It was a muslim that started a thread called something like ‘muslim bashing’.

the whole problem is that we are not making this stuff up - it is in their own texts.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

…most of which Muslims are afraid to tell non-Muslims

How did u get this idea that we are afraid to tell non-Muslims about Islam ?

• If you fart during prayer, your prayers won’t be answered

before prayer ( salat) , we do the abolution ( wash our hand , face , leg etc). If one farts , then s/he needs to do the abolution & salat again .

a new Muslim bro ( ex Christian ) told us in other forum that Christians don’t understand properly when we use the word prayers. It’s not like just asking God to give me this or that. It has some fixed rituals like recite Quran from memory , bow down in the name of God , make sujud ( prostration) etc.

• Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Spirit

Christians give much importance on Mother Mary (p) & Jesus (p). Quran warned them not to take them as deities besides God.

InshaAllah , I will try to ans rest of your questions later.

Again, no bashing Islam or Muslims.

no problem . I started a thread for that .You are welcome to join there.

 

[planten]

Ok. I can see that part of it. However, is it just me or does it seem strange that God ignores us if we are dirty. I am not sure why passing gas is so evil.

Ralph, It is not so evil. But it is considered a sort of relaxation. It is known that by passing gas, you ease yourself. So it needs ablution to continue the prayers. That is all.

 

[planten]

It was a muslim that started a thread called something like ‘muslim bashing’.

the whole problem is that we are not making this stuff up - it is in their own texts.

The poor Muslim had to bring the Muslim bashing to your attention. That is why he/she started the thread that there was too much muslim bashing on this forum.

Now if you go to the malafide texts, specially hadith an not to the Quran, and with malafide intentions you are looking for trouble spots then you will get troubles only. That is what the good friend Paul C is pointing to.

It is no use such things. I can dig out many bad things for you from the bibleNT. HOw ould you like that? It becomes unpleasant and a waste of time. So follow the good advice of a good friend please.

 

[JLSamuel818]

It was a muslim that started a thread called something like ‘muslim bashing’.

the whole problem is that we are not making this stuff up - it is in their own texts.

To be fair the one before you is right. Muslims have been very patient.

However it is true, the problem is that it is in their own texts.

But still, I refuse to believe any faith, religion, that says that our Lord and Saviour did not die in that cross. He has endured pain that no one on this Earth can possibly endure. An agony that one can not possibly imagine. My Lord… has carried the SINS OF THE WORLD upon his shoulders carrying that cross…

He DIED for me and everyone else. The fact that someone can say that He didn’t after all He’s been through, is just dis-honorable, and hurts me down to the core.

It’s just the way I feel.

 

[Eucharisted]

I would have to agree that this thread should be eliminated from the board. It is disrespectful and does not reflect the virtue of love. I give the Muslims here credit for patiently and graciously answering the charges. CAF can do much better than this. It should be about fostering mutual understanding of the truth…

Hello, Paul.

I can see where you’re coming from, that this thread would appear to be an attack on Islam. Yes I mistook some beliefs, but I have been corrected by Christians and Muslims, and I am happy for being corrected - a man is better off being corrected than he is to live in error, in my opinion.

This thread is meant to reveal the beliefs of Islam which few people know of, and which some Muslims don’t feel comfortable talking about, or are embarassed about, or for whatever reason don’t talk about them. It is not meant to attack, nor to expose (as if Islam some kind of conspiracy), but only to reveal. I have said Muslims are free to debate, and they have, and very patiently I might add.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hello, Paul.

I can see where you’re coming from, that this thread would appear to be an attack on Islam. Yes I mistook some beliefs, but I have been corrected by Christians and Muslims, and I am happy for being corrected - a man is better off being corrected than he is to live in error, in my opinion.

This thread is meant to reveal the beliefs of Islam which few people know of, and which some Muslims don’t feel comfortable talking about, or are embarassed about, or for whatever reason don’t talk about them. It is not meant to attack, nor to expose (as if Islam some kind of conspiracy), but only to reveal. I have said Muslims are free to debate, and they have, and very patiently I might add.

There is no harm to discuss issues in both religions. We learn much better after that. It is harmful if we have bad intention in the camouflage of discussing. If people are mature enough, they can confront issues head on, and we come off better informed.

It is true that certain topics are not encouraged to be questioned or discussed in Islam. So that can be a problem. But then again, this is a Catholic forum.

I think you are bold enough to bring these topics for discussion. The success or the failure of this thread is not because you bring them up but how the posters here respond to them.

Our Bible and Catholicism has been an opened book. People are free to criticize them or even make movies out of them. True religion would not just be discredited just because people want to. God needs not be defended. He certainly can take care of Himself. Sadly that cannot be said of Mohammad. He made the example. People got killed who ridiculed him.

Anyway, to all posters please be objective and try to be factual when possible. Do not be afraid to admit that we can be wrong sometimes. No, this is not condescending but only responding to the reactions on this thread.

God bless you. +

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

This thread is not for bashing Islam or Muslims, this thread is for revealing the ridiculous claims and beliefs of Islam, most of which Muslims are afraid to tell non-Muslims because they believe non-Muslims just won’t understand them (at least, that’s my assumption of why Muslims don’t tell these silly beliefs to others).

Below is a list of nonsense which I’ve gathered from the Koran and from Hadiths.

• If you fart during prayer, your prayers won’t be answered
• Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Spirit
• The Holy Spirit is an angel
• Jesus is the Messiah but He never fulfilled the OT prophecies

Many Christians would agree with this, on the ground that there are no directly Messianic prophecies in the OT; though there are many passages applicable to Him.​

• Adam was created from fire
• Satan is a jinn, not an angel
• Christians and Jews will not go to Hell
• Christians and Jews will go to Hell
• On the last day, Jesus will kill the Jews
• Jesus was never crucified nor did He die
• Muslims must face Jerusalem when praying

This & the following one are probably adaptations of Christian ideas about praying toward the East (Cf. Matt. 24.30). I didn’t know Muslims still prayed towards Jerusalem.​

Some Muslim ideas are derived from Christian or semi-Christian circles, such as that about Jesus Himself not being crucified. The idea about the Trinity may owe something to the “Gospel of the Egyptians”, in which the Holy Spirit is Jesus’ Mother. As for the Holy Spirit being an angel, this is not an unreasonable position in itself; & it has the very great advantage of avoiding any appearance of shirk.

• Muslims must face Mecca when praying
• Islam was proclaimed by all of the great OT and NT prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jesus

This is no more foolish that the corresponding Christian idea​

• Islam will no longer be practiced before the last day
• Angels don’t have free-wills

In a sense, that one is true.​

• On the last day everyone will ask Jesus to pray for them, but he will tell mankind to ask Mohammed instead
• On the last day Jesus will rebuke the law of the gospel
• Before the last day, Muslims must fight the Jews
• Muslims can’t talk to their brothers for more than three days
• Actions are judged by God based on intentions

That one is Catholic morality - what else would they be judged on ?​

• Christian exaggerate in praising Jesus

Given their type of monotheism, this is a perfectly sensible position​

• The fart belief I got from another user on CAF on another thread.

Muslims, feel free to argue these claims. Non-Muslims, feel free to add anything you know about Islam.

Again, no bashing Islam or Muslims.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… CAF can do much better than this. …

yes . Some Christians are regularly addressing our Prophet as Mo . I am afraid , I may fall in to devil’s trap & may start hating Christians

 

[R_not]

The poor Muslim had to bring the Muslim bashing to your attention. That is why he/she started the thread that there was too much muslim bashing on this forum.

Now if you go to the malafide texts, specially hadith an not to the Quran, and with malafide intentions you are looking for trouble spots then you will get troubles only. That is what the good friend Paul C is pointing to.

It is no use such things. I can dig out many bad things for you from the bibleNT. HOw ould you like that? It becomes unpleasant and a waste of time. So follow the good advice of a good friend please.

Go for it.

How can you follow a guy who was an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord?

And the deeds (not the disorders such as narcissism) was all done AFTER he started islam. How can you follow this guy? How can you say that those traits are good?

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph, It is not so evil. But it is considered a sort of relaxation. It is known that by passing gas, you ease yourself. So it needs ablution to continue the prayers. That is all.

So we are not to be relaxed in the presence of God?

 

[ralphinal]

The poor Muslim had to bring the Muslim bashing to your attention. That is why he/she started the thread that there was too much muslim bashing on this forum.

No, she claims that anything that disproves Islam is bashing and wants them all in one thread that can be ignored. I was born at night, but not last night.

Now if you go to the malafide texts, specially hadith an not to the Quran, and with malafide intentions you are looking for trouble spots then you will get troubles only. That is what the good friend Paul C is pointing to.

Do you want a list of things Muhammed did that were bad and compair them to the things that JEsus did that were bad? How many of Mohammed’s actions would be capitol offenses in SA today?

 

[planten]

Go for it.

How can you follow a guy who was an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord?

And the deeds (not the disorders such as narcissism) was all done AFTER he started islam. How can you follow this guy? How can you say that those traits are good?

Will this post of R_Not be considered as an abuse please? It is defintely highly abusive post and needs to be checked / condemned. It is surely not from any Catholic.

 

[MugenOne]

What is wrong with calling Mohammed as Mo? I call him " Big Mo." I know, Muslims get offended for calling them “Saracens and Mohammedans.” Those are not offensive terms. Either is Mo or Big Mo.

 

[MugenOne]

I couldn’t agree more. If Big Mo didn’t do any of these things, we wouldn’t label him as such. Action speaks louder than words.

Go for it.

How can you follow a guy who was an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord?

And the deeds (not the disorders such as narcissism) was all done AFTER he started islam. How can you follow this guy? How can you say that those traits are good?

 

[morning_star777]

I have been quite away from CAF lately because I had thought it rather disrespectful of both religions and their adherents.
I was kind of fed up with all the discussions just intending to set traps to the other side. I feel that if Muslims have truly questions, truly respectful ones about our faith they should go to the Ask an Apologist item.
Sincerely, I wish I could really respectfully discuss certain points, but now would my questions be as respectful as I would think?
I wish I would be sure about it…

Welcome back brother

 

[narrowpath]

Thread poster SERIOUSLY needs to re-examine the facts.

 

[R_not]

Will this post of R_Not be considered as an abuse please? It is defintely highly abusive post and needs to be checked / condemned. It is surely not from any Catholic.

And you have used this tactic before, planten. When you don’t like something then call my religion to question. It is just one of many tactics you have used.

And how is this information so wrong? Everything that says this of mohammed is in the koran and hadiths - that is your texts that all of these traits of mohammed are gotten from.

I got this quote from a guy on another thread about the koran - I won’t print his name due to the fact that in islam muslims are known to threaten people, call them up with death threats and as in the case of Theo Van Gogh, just stab them in the middle of the street during the daylight:

**How important is the Koran? It contains about 153,000 words. The Sira (by Ibn Ishaq) contains about 292,000 words, and the Hadith has 646,000 words (using the Bukhari text). So Allah is about 14% of the total of the Trilogy and the Sunna (Mohammed’s words and deeds) is 86% of the total. These are only a quantitative measure, but still, it points out how important Mohammed is compared to Allah, based upon the amount of text.

The Hadith of Bukhari gives all of the tactical details of jihad. A simple counting method shows that 3% of the hadiths are about the inner struggle, whereas, 97% of the hadiths are about jihad as war. So is jihad the inner struggle? Yes, 3%. Is jihad the war against kafirs? Yes, 97%.

To measure the Koranic fixation on kafirs, let us measure the fixation by counting the amount of text devoted to them. In Mecca an astounding 67% of the text is devoted to the kafir. In Medina 51% was about kafirs. The amount of text in the entire Koran devoted to kafirs is 61%.

**

And I would like to remind everyone that planten called me a kafir. Yes, he should be banned due to this name calling since it is on the same equivalency to a black person being called the ‘n’ word. But since most do not even understand islam - yet - they do not understand the meaning of the name, kafir.

Basically anyone who can read can pull these assertions about mohammed from the koran and hadiths - except for the muslims. Why is that? Can’t they read? Or is it that we are witnessing taqiyya - again.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

What is wrong with calling Mohammed as Mo? I call him " Big Mo." .

some Catholics regularly address our respected Prophet as Mo. First I thought this is the teaching of the Catholic Church ; so Catholics are doing this. But one Catholic told me no , it’s his/her personal choice to do so.

What can I say ? I don’t want to hate Christians . So , I have decided not to read the posts of those Christians who write our Prophet’s name as Mo.