Discussion on the Qu'ran and Hadith

[Reuben_J]

I can relate to this on a certain level, and it is why I started this thread: to show people the nonsense of Islam, the nonsence which I discovered, starting in college.

In college I found the Koran and decided to read it. I wanted to get to know Muslims better so I could understand them. As I read, I was comforted by the presence of familiar figures - angels, prophets, etc. - and the words and verses of the Koran had the same tone, style, and even message as the Bible. So it seemed. Than I got into the later chapters of the Koran and that’s when I began to see the nonscence. The claims that Jesus never died, that Christians will be saved yet Christians are evil, that Jews are cursed by Allah and his followers must against them, etc. I had to put the book down at that point; it was just too painful to read, to see so much vile lies and utter hatred in one book which claimed to be from God. I wondered, though, why no one else saw it - or how anyone could rationalize it. But a smart can rationalize anything, and a weak or desperate mind can accept anything…

I can understand how you feel about it.

To me, I immediately see the stark contrast between the Bible and the Quran. Where the Bible exhorts us to be the people of hope, the book of Quran is very frightening and devoid of hope. I can never finish reading the Quran because at some points in time I become so revolted that I have to let it down. There is a certain element of bondage about it that I can’t quite explain.

There is so much hatred contained in that book. As Christians or Jews or People of the Book which it mentions by names, you would feel immediately alienated as it threatens and criticizes.

 

[paarsurrey]

I can understand how you feel about it.

To me, I immediately see the stark contrast between the Bible and the Quran. Where the Bible exhorts us to be the people of hope, the book of Quran is very frightening and devoid of hope. I can never finish reading the Quran because at some points in time I become so revolted that I have to let it down. There is a certain element of bondage about it that I can’t quite explain.

There is so much hatred contained in that book. As Christians or Jews or People of the Book which it mentions by names, you would feel immediately alienated as it threatens and criticizes.

Hi

I think it is only a reflection of your biased view about Islam/Quran/Muhammad. You failed to finish it for that; or at least you should have not commented on them. It is not a good and honest research, in my opinion, to review a book without intently reading it from cover to cover several times.

You can ,therefore, start anew; and if you find **a verse **that is so objectionable, please present it here with five preceding and five following for the context. There is no harm in it. You will only improve your information; and information has never harmed anybody.

Thanks

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

… it is only Islam that says Jesus did not die on the cross. …

pl. explain. You want to say Jewish, Hindus , Buddhists & others holy books say Jesus (p) died on the cross ? Do they ( Jews , Hindus & others ) respect Jesus (p) as God or son of God ?

 

[paarsurrey]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

pl. explain. You want to say Jewish, Hindus , Buddhists & others holy books say Jesus (p) died on the cross ? Do they ( Jews , Hindus & others ) respect Jesus (p) as God or son of God ?

Hi

A good question from Muslim Woman. Only Islam’s Revealed Book Quran respects Jesus and Mary; for others Reuben J should quote from Hindus,Jews,Buddhists,Zoroastrians. He cannot. Can he?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishan

Thanks

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

I think it is only a reflection of your biased view about Islam/Quran/Muhammad. You failed to finish it for that; or at least you should have not commented on them. It is not a good and honest research, in my opinion, to review a book without intently reading it from cover to cover several times.

You can ,therefore, start anew; and if you find **a verse **that is so objectionable, please present it here with five preceding and five following for the context. There is no harm in it. You will only improve your information; and information has never harmed anybody.

Thanks

I have read it a few times but everytime when I did I was so revolted that I just could not continue. It is full of hatred and being non-Muslims we are so alienated there. There is so much threats and criticism I feel there is something evil about it that I can’t quite explain. Maybe I was biased but that how I feel whenever I read and touch the Quran.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

A good question from Muslim Woman. Only Islam’s Revealed Book Quran respects Jesus and Mary; for others Reuben J should quote from Hindus,Jews,Buddhists,Zoroastrians. He cannot. Can he?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishan

Thanks

You are flattering me. Except for a little bit of Islam ( I hava a copy of the Quran which belongs to my brother who gave it to me) I do not know about the other religions that you mention. I should open my horizon more, but I don’t have that much time. Lots of my times are on prayers and studying and reflecting on the word (the Bible); and even then I seem to miss those quite frequently now. The hypocrite must be the internet.

To us, the Quran blasphemes against Jesus (as I have told you) that it borders on being the word of the Devil. I would rather the other religions do not mention him at all if they are going to do the same like the Quran

 

[R_not]

Hi

Quran/Islam/Muhammad had provided no sanctity for any clergy.

Kinldy **quote from Quran a verse **about any sanctity for any clergy.Islam is open for individuals does not bind them to any of that sort of hierarchy.

We don’t believe in any clergy.

My above post was for a simple straightforward question to arrive at a principle. Sorry, I could not see your answer in your response . You may answer it now.

Thanks

Then why do muslims follow them so blindly? I wish they would not and if they did take reading the koran and other texts of islam into their own hands I would bet that there would be #1. less violence, #2. fewer muslims because how could sane people follow such a guy as mohammed?! His deeds and words are beyond the pale!

 

[JLSamuel818]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

pl. explain. You want to say Jewish, Hindus , Buddhists & others holy books say Jesus (p) died on the cross ? Do they ( Jews , Hindus & others ) respect Jesus (p) as God or son of God ?

I can’t say about Hindus or Buddhists. But of the Jewish faith I can.

The Jewish community is the only one [Other than the Catholic Church] that actually does belong to God. See, with respect to them, they are the Church and Faith that the Father of our Lord has made since the release of the Hebrews from the Egyptians.

The Father, Yahweh created and founded the Jewish Church, I can not deny this. When Jesus came, He did not come to change the Jewish Faith, but to fulfill it.

The other part of the Jews are those who missed Christ, and are still waiting for the “First Coming”. Jews are of Old Testament, and we Catholics, are also Jewish in the sense, that we now just called an “Universal” Church. Hence why Catholic means Universal.

They still wait for the Lord to come. We (Catholics) know He has already come, and we are here to give the good news to the world. The Lord and Saviour has already come, and He has risen!

Hindus and Buddhists. Don’t compare them to the Jews. Hindus and Buddhists have nothing on them.

 

[JLSamuel818]

…] Even though you say the Jihadists have no right to kill people in the name of religion, the command of your Quran which they quoted is very explicit. It says to kill and to implement Syariah laws. Besides they do what Mohammad did.

When Christians have extra marital sex, they don’t say that they do it because Jesus did it or asked them to do it. In fact Jesus commanded them not to do it. And Jesus lived by example of the teachings he preached.

So, it is two different things to compare Christians who sin and Muslims who kill. The former do it despite Jesus’ teaching not to; the latter do it because the commands are to be found in the Quran and also Mohammad did it as well…]

Actually… I never thought about it that way…

Well said.

 

[R_not]

I have read it a few times but everytime when I did I was so revolted that I just could not continue. It is full of hatred and being non-Muslims we are so alienated there. There is so much threats and criticism I feel there is something evil about it that I can’t quite explain. Maybe I was biased but that how I feel whenever I read and touch the Quran.

I felt that too, but I had to read it because I had to know ‘why do they hate us?’ after 9/11. I had to know it all. Why were the so called ‘moderates’ celebrating in the streets? Why were they sending out their children to kill knowing they were going to die? What was this facade they were putting on for us and how come they cannot make a peace treaty that would last?

I couldn’t read it all at once, I had to read it in increments. It is repetitive, it sounds like ranting most of the time, I thought mohammed couldn’t get enough of himself, and I thought he was a pervert along with being a nasty guy with so much hatred and venom. At first I thought he had syphilis and was suffering from that, then as a year or so past I read from Ali Sina that he probably had pathologic frontal lobe epilepsy, narcissism, paranoia, and possibly obsessive compulsive disease. All of these really do fit mohammed and Ali Sina brings out proof of them in islam’s own texts. (‘Understanding muhammad, A Psychobiography’)

I have had this problem from the start though - why do so many follow this guy then? Well, then as I read more about Stalin, Mao, and even Hitler - the same could be asked of those people too. It seems that Stalin and Mao imploded and killed their own people more than others - but they also set themselves up as godlike, and in Stalin’s case - a god. Hitler killed many Germans, but mostly Jews and others who were against them. (all of these are fascisms - Nazism, Communism, and islam with the philosophy ‘either you are with us or you are against us’)

The difference between islam and the others is that mohammed set islam up as a ‘religion’ while behaving as a political system too. Communism might have done that too, but didn’t outright say it was a religion. All three also gets rid of Christianity, Judaism, and any other religions so as to get rid of any free thinking people. All three have people who follow blindly without question or else they would not have taken root and did what they did to humanity.

 

[trdchubi]

I have read it a few times but everytime when I did I was so revolted that I just could not continue. It is full of hatred and being non-Muslims we are so alienated there. There is so much threats and criticism I feel there is something evil about it that I can’t quite explain. Maybe I was biased but that how I feel whenever I read and touch the Quran.

I think whatever good seed planted by the Holy Spirit of God into our hearts will also only accept that which will nourish it and make it grow to the true intention of our Creator for us which is GOOD. And anything that is not in line with your true nature will be convicted by the Holy spirit as false and unacceptable.

Remember “He who started a good work in you, will also be faithful to complete it GOOD in you”

God bless you Rueben J, for God gave you a discerning heart

 

[dzheremi]

I think it is harder to find a Christian now, after 9/11, who has not at least tried to familiarize himself with Islam, including by reading the Qur’an to whatever extent he can. I know I have tried to do so, and in good faith. I honestly didn’t get very far, and my problem is more with the overall sense of the message, rather than the violent passages (which are also a problem, of course). There is a lot of violence in the Bible, too, but it is viewed differently by those that follow it. It is not to instruct future generations of the need for violence, the way that Muslims can claim the Qur’an informs them of the correctness of their jihad against others.

For me, I tried to read the Qur’an to understand how Muslims view God, because I believe as the Church teaches us that Muslims are people who try to worship God, so I am not against them like some Christians who claim that Allah is different than our God. If there is only one God, then there is trouble in claiming that others worship another. The best I can say is that others get it wrong to different degrees: The depiction of God in the Qur’an is wrong, and so Muslims worship God in an improper fashion by following in Muhammad’s footsteps, who likewise got it wrong because he absorbed gnostic ideas from some of his fellow Arabians.

So I have no problem with saying Allahu akbar (He most certainl is!) or the first part of the Shahada…only the second part.

I was once told by someone who knows much better than I do that one big difference between Muslims and Christians is that Christians see all good as coming from God, and all evil coming from the devil, while Muslims ascribe to their version of Allah also things Christians would see as bad (being deceitful, scheming, being boastful, etc). I think this is really true. And since I do not worship a God who practices deceit, boastfulness (as when Allah challenges humanity to produce something greater than the Qur’an, knowing full well that since He is God and they are not, they can never produce something as great as He has, if the Qur’an is truly from God…but that is another topic all together), or any other form of wickedness, I have no choice but to conclude that Allah as He is depicted in the Qur’an is not God, and hence I reject Islam. Honestly, you don’t really need to read very much of the Qur’an to see this, if you believe that God is eternal and ONE, so He would not become drastically different “between books” as some sort of corrective to the wicked ways of those who believed in Him in earlier eras.

God is who He says He is. He is One, eternal, and greater than any book or prophet. Islam fails to respect this, even while striving to present itself as the most pure form of monotheism ever. I do wish it weren’t the case, but don’t blame me for my “prejudice”…I did not write the Qur’an. I do not propagate the idea of divine abrogation that makes all this nonsense possible.

I should reiterate here that I think it is good that Muslims try to worship God. It is much better than not trying at all, and I am very impressed by the seriousness with which they approach their faith (many Christians could learn from this, at least in the West where I am). I am not anti-Muslim so much as I am anti-Islam, if that makes sense in the context of the rest of the post. Muslims are just human beings trying to worship and please God as best as they can, and in that way no different than any other community of faith.

 

[R_not]

there was something else that was not ringing true.

I would watch people like Bill O’Reilly and some others interview muslims and they would say things like, ‘we do not believe in the killing of innocents, nor do we believe in suicide bombers’.

Have you ever heard something over and over again that somehow was not settling? That was it. I talked with a Jewess who has citizenship here in the USA and also Israel a few years after 9/11 (9/11 has always affected me and still does to this day). to make a long story short she advised me to read, ‘From Time Immemorial’. A BIIIG book and not an easy read - but from there I have read so much I cannot count the books anymore including the koran and much of the hadiths.

Well, suicide is ok - if they are killing non-muslims too. And innocents do not apply to non-muslims and they follow their ‘prophet’ who quite regularly killed innocents and if they didn’t die he would kill the males and take the women and children as slaves.

Those muslims on TV were in major deceptive mode. Taqiyya - deception - all sanctioned by the koran. But even then I didn’t put one and one together to realize that so many words in islam have different meanings and it has been a growing process to find out the different words that have double meanings, including sin.

I cannot explain how so many follow thugs but I know I cannot and I feel that while I have the benefits of a free society that people have to know the truth.

And one thing we get from muslims on these sites are many excuses - and as a drill instructor once YELLED at me about excuses - they are useless and lame.

 

[JLSamuel818]

Anyone see the Special “The Lost Book of Nostradamus”?

It has pictures depicted by this… I don’t know if he was a Catholic prophet or psychic from the 16’ hundreds. He worked with Astrology and he made this book with depicted pictures and gave it to a Cardinal. It was saved, and hidden until recently when we were finally allowed to see it…

You see, Nostradamus can see the future, and he has made many prophesies, and so many has come true. I understand He was a God fearing man though.

Anyways, the pictures were found again, until this time. And it shows the revelation and apocalypse. It also shows when the the End of the world will come. And indeed it is very soon. The Church ordered the date not to be revealed though.

Well, the pictures all include Catholics and Muslim symbols. It seems to me, at the end of days, there will be a great war, and as the past the world was punished by water, it will be punished by fire this time. And all will turn to God.

It shows pictures of The Catholic Church with a sword, against a serpent, with the crescent moon with a star symbolizing Islam, or Muslim. Seems like we are doomed to be at war with them anyways. Nostradamus were scarily accurate. Predicting Hitler, Stalin, The Twin Tower Bombings, Natural Disasters, ect.

Very Scary stuff man.

You should check it out.

 

[JLSamuel818]

So far from what I gathered. Most major very VERY accurate Prophets are pointing to December 21 2012.

Though The Church is doing their very best to silence them.

The Immaculate Virgin represented Herself to a woman somewhere in the 60’ I think. And she was revealed the end date, the Blessed Mother ordered her NOT to reveal the day until 8 DAYS before doomsday.

The Church does believe that she really see the blessed mother.

Again, the Church denied telling us a date. But revealed to us that there will be a time of days were there shall be fire above certain trees in Israel, and all the World will see it. And they shall know, the end will be soon.

The Church is keeping secrets. Seems we have to wait… here’s the scary stuff, that woman that the Blessed Mother revealed herself to… well… she is still alive.

If Bin Laden, or all of these predictions are true, I am very worried.

 

[Lapell]

** The posts of R-Not about Islam had all been abuse and a bundle of lies. The rest of christians friends are quiet on this issue and allowing that abuse. they are equally guilty. I never started any abuse.**

Dear planten, This sounds to me like a strong, exaggerated accusation! That because “the rest of Christian friends” are quiet it would mean that they are “allowing” that “abuse” and thus we would be “equally guilty”!
First of all, not all of the Catholics (nor all the other Christians either) do participate in the CAF! Far from it!
And then, not every Christian, even among us Catholics, necessarily draws the same conclusions as R_not’s! But among them there are many who feel what R_not has said might reflect true facts at least of a portion of Islam, or rather of the Muslims.
For this reason, I am sure it keeps them from “saying anything”.
Also, not so many of us are interested when we feel it’s just a battle of words, or something looking like a political debate where the participants try to make us swallow some lies along with maybe some truths, and so a number of us simply balk away, with good reason.

 

[Lapell]

Also, planten, when you imply that those of us who remain silent are equally guilty, you remind me of some high ambassador who says: “The countries who do not go along with us in our war against our evil enemies will be considered as going against us.” How would you react to such a turn of words? What you implied seem quite like this ambassador’s words to me. “Speak up, or else…!”
If you are a friend, you can’t speak like that!

 

[Lapell]

Sorry I answered to planten so late, but I don’t have as much access to internet as in the past. I am lucky to be here tonight (here it’s nearly 6 p.m.). First time in a while that I can be here two days in a row (but only one to two hours each time). Moreover, I have my e-mails to look at. So bye now, and God love you!

 

[R_not]

So far from what I gathered. Most major very VERY accurate Prophets are pointing to December 21 2012.

Though The Church is doing their very best to silence them.

The Immaculate Virgin represented Herself to a woman somewhere in the 60’ I think. And she was revealed the end date, the Blessed Mother ordered her NOT to reveal the day until 8 DAYS before doomsday.

The Church does believe that she really see the blessed mother.

Again, the Church denied telling us a date. But revealed to us that there will be a time of days were there shall be fire above certain trees in Israel, and all the World will see it. And they shall know, the end will be soon.

The Church is keeping secrets. Seems we have to wait… here’s the scary stuff, that woman that the Blessed Mother revealed herself to… well… she is still alive.

If Bin Laden, or all of these predictions are true, I am very worried.

I heard it was the time when Our Lady visited the three children at Fatima when she foretold of the problems to come if we did not mend our ways. And this is what the Church, or the Pope(s), have kept silent.

As far as them keeping secrets - I really don’t care. I don’t think it would be helpful to let everyone know everything about this. And the reason why I say this is because it is up to us to change ourselves.

We can keep on thinking that appeasing evil and things that just are not right, are going to get us somewhere or we can stand by our principles, and do what we know is right. We got all we need from Jesus, and His Apostles, to do what is right. And He foretold about the false prophets and what their ‘fruit’ is and we have seen the ‘fruit’ of what mohammed brought - death, chaos, hatred, and stagnation.

 

[R_not]

Also, planten, when you imply that those of us who remain silent are equally guilty, you remind me of some high ambassador who says: “The countries who do not go along with us in our war against our evil enemies will be considered as going against us.” How would you react to such a turn of words? What you implied seem quite like this ambassador’s words to me. “Speak up, or else…!”
If you are a friend, you can’t speak like that!

Of course, they don’t hold themselves to their own standards - their own kill, torture, kidnap/enslave, etc others and they do nothing. but, gee - when there is a cartoon - they all get out in force and riot and kill…