Discussion on the Qu'ran and Hadith

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**Paul, we do not have any grudge against Saul. He was an enemy till the last time of Jesus. He killed many friends of Jesus. Okay. Forgive him if he did something good afterwards. But he did not. We can see clearly that he abondoned the law of Moses a.s.

While Jesus was alive, the law was sacred and being followed by Jesus and all disciples. When paul took over, law became a curse.
He abondoned the Sabath etc. He stopped the circumcision and started the eating of the flesh of swine. None of these were in practice during the time of Jesus.

WE Muslims are justified in blaming paul for high-jacking the christians faith. If paul had followed in the footsteps of Jesus then we would have no objection. But we can see that paul started a new religion of his own, including Trinity and original sin and death on the cross etc. Jesus and his mother did not do anything wrong. They were sinless. But this sinful man paul damaged christianity beyond repair.

Jesus never predicted the conversion of a staunch enemy (paul). So there is no real conversion. Jesus did not appear to any of his true followers to tell them that paul had converted. So there is no testimony for conversion. The person who was with paul on his journey to damacus was a man for paul. His testimony is not reliable. He is not a neutral person.

We will keep on discussing the subject of paul taking over the church. If christians are happy with him, we have nothing to worry. It is their own business. They can have paul. But we will not follow the teachings of paul. There is more paul in the bible than there is Jesus. Why?**
Why don’t you start a different thread on paul?

You are ok with mohammed and his killing and bloodlust but just can’t get over Paul.

You follow the teachings of an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic, assasin,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord and that is ok with you.

go figure. 🤷
 
Following is what we are up against when dealing with islam/muslims. this is the brainwashing from their holey book, the koran, tells them. (oh, and yes, I do know how to spell holy.)

If, according to mohammed, it is the women who are the ones who are deficient in their minds, why is it the men who commit the crimes against the women and children? But, here we have a ‘religion’ that had to redefine sin and also most common of laws and make sure that no matter what the muslim male did he was not held responsible.

He could beat, rape, torture and kill not only non-muslims - but also his own women and children.

‘honor killings’ is indeed in their islamic texts.

Honor killing in Pakistan: Girl clubbed to death by uncle
A manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy says that “retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right.” However, “not subject to retaliation” is “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring.” (‘Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.“Girl clubbed to death by uncle,” by Khadijah Shah of the Rays of Development Organisation, at STOP! Honour Killings, December 9 (thanks to Religion of Peace):​

Here we have a surah that tells muslim men that dirt is better than their own women.

Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.]​

And we have here mohammed telling his followers that it is ok to starve their own women. Now, we see here that no matter what goes on in the man’s brain - he is ok no matter what he thinks. He could be a psychopathic murderer and it is ok because all he has to say is that she was lewd and he can starve her - or do anything to her.

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

and mohammed says it is ok to be a pimp!

Qur’an 24:34 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here’s the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”​

and lastly, here is where the woman has to pay for the crimes of the muslim male - no matter how much she covers up runs and/or hides - the muslim male gets off scott free. A psychopathic’s heaven!

Qur’an 24:6 “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.”​

So basically what we have here is that their political system, their judicial system, and their ‘religious’ system is all based on the koran which sanctions murder - if the guy says that they deserved it then it is ‘ok’ and inserts allah, mohammed in the explanation then, no questions asked.

And yes, this also applies to non-muslims because they are even lower than their women (who are pretty low) and yes, slavery still exists in islam.
 
Quite foolish and harmful, malafide interpretations of the Quranic verses are being presented. It means that Muslims are free to corrupt the bible verses too?? Yes or NO??
 
Quite foolish and harmful, malafide interpretations of the Quranic verses are being presented. It means that Muslims are free to corrupt the bible verses too?? Yes or NO??
Go start your own thread - this is a thread on the discussion of the koran and hadiths.

I don’t know what is corrupted - they are pretty straightforward to me.

All you are telling me is that I misinterpreted them - tell me what you think they mean.
 
One comment about my interpretation - if it is so wrong why are woman treated as less than men - and don’t give me that they are less in their brains since women have proven themselves in fields previously forbidden to them in our countries.

Or that slavery is still practiced in islam - and don’t tell me it isn’t since some muslims have tried to bring their slaves (and there are probably many who are not caught) and are sitting in prison now. And saudi arabia’s slave trade center in Medina is flourishing.

Or if it isn’t interpreted correctly why are muslims trying to bring back segregation? or still practicing polygamy and bringing it to our lands thinking that it is ok for women to be in such a humiliating situation and if they don’t accept that along with anything else put onto her she gets beatened, and even ‘honor killed’?

Don’t tell me it isn’t a part of islam because I have already proven it is. With muslims practicing sharia laws even in our lands - nothing stops the muslim males from practicing ‘honor killings’.

‘honor killings’ is indeed in their islamic texts.

Honor killing in Pakistan: Girl clubbed to death by uncle
A manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy says that “retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right.” However, “not subject to retaliation” is “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring.” (‘Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.“Girl clubbed to death by uncle,” by Khadijah Shah of the Rays of Development Organisation, at STOP! Honour Killings, December 9 (thanks to Religion of Peace):
 
**Women had been considered bad elements, i.e. less than the men in many western countries including U.K. They did not have right to hold property. They had no right to vote until recently.

The bibleNT does not mention any right to inherit and hold property for the women folk. If it does then it will prove that church (Christianity) cares for the ladies. Otherwise it will be only be a sweet talk from the mouth.

I do not find anything good in the bibleNT for the ladies. Specially, some of the inherited sin which the christians (should) believe that it was motivated by a lady. The Quran never blamed the lady ( Holy Mother Eve). See the difference. Where as a book (bible) blames the ladies en masse, the Quran never does it.

So we learn some good (superior) points in favor of Quran over the bible. These are the real things. Not just some blame worthy talks of the mouth.**
 
**Women had been considered bad elements, i.e. less than the men in many western countries including U.K. They did not have right to hold property. They had no right to vote until recently.

The bibleNT does not mention any right to inherit and hold property for the women folk. If it does then it will prove that church (Christianity) cares for the ladies. Otherwise it will be only be a sweet talk from the mouth.

I do not find anything good in the bibleNT for the ladies. Specially, some of the inherited sin which the christians (should) believe that it was motivated by a lady. The Quran never blamed the lady ( Holy Mother Eve). See the difference. Where as a book (bible) blames the ladies en masse, the Quran never does it.

So we learn some good (superior) points in favor of Quran over the bible. These are the real things. Not just some blame worthy talks of the mouth.**
None of what you say holds true. I guess that when Jesus stopped a stoning and mohammed sanctioned them - that is just ‘peanuts’ to you. Or that you don’t understand the separation of Church and State so you guys want us to follow islam and have it invade our state.

Sorry, but our laws in the government, based on the Judeo-Christian 10 Commandments are far superior to sharia laws which have shown to have the worst cases of human rights abuses wherever they are implemented.

In our lands the rights of women have been won and in islam there is no chance for that because muslims don’t even vote to change them and non-muslims don’t even have the right to vote!
 
swariffin, no one is self claimed prophet. Moses was told in Deut 18:20 that a false prophet will be killed. We believe in that. Muhammad was not killed. So you have a lesson there.
Did somebody in another thread wrote that Muhammad died of poisoning? You are free to explain to me, and I am willing to listen to your explanation, my dear friend.
Moses was not a prophet until he was called and appointed. Same for Muhammad. he did not know that he was a prophet until he was called and told. After that, of course, Moses and Muhammad were told many things and commanded to do things.
Definitely, a prophet is judged by the fruit of his works.
I was only suggesting that the verses revealed to Moses while he was inside Egypt were not any harsh warlike verses. Samething for Muhammad. The verses revealed to Muhammad in Makkah were for the spiritual uplift of the believers (Momins). There was no warlike verse revealed in Makkah. But all other guidance was given.
No way, my dear friend. The verses revealed to Moses was “Thou shall not kill”. While Muhammad wrote the Jihadist verses. Fine if no warlike verses in Meccan verses. What about the Medina verses? Are you telling me that those are not from Muhammad??
 
Not really. Being based on the principles is not bringing a religion into the equation. While in islam it is indeed intertwined with religion and state. islam is politics and it is all invasive and requires EVERYONE to follow their laws even though the non-muslim has no rights under their laws.
 
Here we have a surah that tells muslim men that dirt is better than their own women.

Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.]​

R_not, your conclusion are so ridiculously laughable that I almost pity you. The verse here is talking about being ritually clean before approaching prayer.
  1. In prayer, the person should be consciously aware of what they are saying and be mentally alert. Therefore they should not be intoxicated.
2 The person should be physically clean, one pollutant that requires baiting is discharge of semen, while sleeping or when awake, voluntarily or involuntarily.
  1. If a person is sick and can not use water, or they are in travel and there is no water available or they have had sexual intercourse, this is where you need to pay attention because touching women in the verse means having sexual intercourse. If there is sexual intercourse and there is no water available then they can use the earth to clean themselves before performing the payer. It’s important to note this method is only valid in the absence of water. Once water becomes available and the person can use it then purification using sand is not valid.
this has nothing to do with the status of women in islam
 
R_not, your conclusion are so ridiculously laughable that I almost pity you. The verse here is talking about being ritually clean before approaching prayer.
  1. In prayer, the person should be consciously aware of what they are saying and be mentally alert. Therefore they should not be intoxicated.
2 The person should be physically clean, one pollutant that requires baiting is discharge of semen, while sleeping or when awake, voluntarily or involuntarily.
  1. If a person is sick and can not use water, or they are in travel and there is no water available or they have had sexual intercourse, this is where you need to pay attention because touching women in the verse means having sexual intercourse. If there is sexual intercourse and there is no water available then they can use the earth to clean themselves before performing the payer. It’s important to note this method is only valid in the absence of water. Once water becomes available and the person can use it then purification using sand is not valid.
this has nothing to do with the status of women in islam
Don’t tell it to me - tell it to your own muslim males who think them dirty. I wasn’t raised that way.
 
Don’t tell it to me - tell it to your own muslim males who think them dirty. I wasn’t raised that way.
R_Not has no cleanliness. No standard of cleanliness. He/She is quite dirty, unclean and as such cannot approach God in prayers. There is no hygene in R_Not and his /her religion. If there is any then it should be shown (proved) from the bibleNT.
 
R_Not has no cleanliness. No standard of cleanliness. He/She is quite dirty, unclean and as such cannot approach God in prayers. There is no hygene in R_Not and his /her religion. If there is any then it should be shown (proved) from the bibleNT.
Aahh the insults. I love it when you insult me. This tells me that I am on the right path which is away from your path.
:clapping: :extrahappy:

Now why would I want to clean myself up for the moon? or you? :nope:

this brings to mind one of your koran’s surahs.
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
And then these few words are brought to mind of what mohammed said, ‘war is deception’.

Planten, if you want to discuss the Bible there are plenty of other threads, or start your own thread. This one is on YOUR koran and hadiths.
 
Aahh the insults. I love it when you insult me. This tells me that I am on the right path which is away from your path.
:clapping: :extrahappy:

Now why would I want to clean myself up for the moon? or you? :nope:

this brings to mind one of your koran’s surahs.

And then these few words are brought to mind of what mohammed said, ‘war is deception’.

Planten, if you want to discuss the Bible there are plenty of other threads, or start your own thread. This one is on YOUR koran and hadiths.
The best hygene is in the bible OT and Quran. If you had anything in your Nt then you would have posted it. The Superiority of Quran comes up only in contrast with the bible NT. But there is nothing in bible NT.
 
The best hygene is in the bible OT and Quran. If you had anything in your Nt then you would have posted it. The Superiority of Quran comes up only in contrast with the bible NT. But there is nothing in bible NT.
I guess that is because Jesus was a Jew who knew that hygiene was already covered in the OT. And His message was even for those who were not able to clean their bodies. Their souls were more important to Him.

Go start a new thread on the Bible - are you that uncomfortable with your own texts? This is a thread on the koran and hadiths.

I have probably done something you have not done with the koran - I have read it. That is why the conclusion can be made that #1. it isn’t holy, #2. islam is not a part of Judaism nor Christianity, and lastly #3. mohammed was not a prophet.

Reasons why the God of Israel is not allah -
  • Would a loving and compassionate God really command you to hate your non-Muslim friends and expect you to commit a suicide bombing in order to advance the cause of Islam? No. The Bible has not called for that type of action against others.
  • “For God is not the author of confusion, but of Peace…” 1 Cor:14:33
  • "…Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled; Blessed are the merciful; for they shall obtain mercy; Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall see God; Blessed are the peacemakers; for they shall be called the Children of God. (Mt:5:6-9)
  • islam taught the opposite of the above which proved also that mohammed was not a prophet because he changed the message of the Bible.
 
Here are some very huge differences between the God of the Bible and islam’s allah:
  • God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more-> 3:178
  • Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth-> 6:25 6:110
  • Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Qur’an-> 17:45-76
  • It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that-> 17:97
  • God could guide, if he chose to, but did not-> 6:35
  • Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->14:4
  • Willfully misguiding some-> 16:93
  • God causes human to err-> 4:143 7:178
  • God deceiving human-> 4:142
 
R_not, there is nothing rational in the bible. The pious birth, the only pious birth, the son of God, you may be having a father of God too. (Yes you have a fathe rof god). Then three gods in One God. Then the original sin taught by the church. That every new born baby is a sinner.

That to relieve all the sinners, your God was so loving and merciful that he killed his own son (Jesus) on the cross. That is to give relief to sinners, he punished an innocent one. You have such jewels in your teachings?

Then a God coming down to earth being born out of the womb of a sinful woman? Did any prophet of God ever teach such things in any earlier Jewish system? We do not believe Jesus or Mary to be sinful. But you must do that because you say that every new born baby is sinful. So Mary must have been born a sinful one.

I will leave you (R_not) with those questions to consider and prepare some sensible replies for them. There is nothing about such false things in the Quran or Hadith.
 
R_not, there is nothing rational in the bible. The pious birth, the only pious birth, the son of God, you may be having a father of God too. (Yes you have a fathe rof god). Then three gods in One God. Then the original sin taught by the church. That every new born baby is a sinner.

That to relieve all the sinners, your God was so loving and merciful that he killed his own son (Jesus) on the cross. That is to give relief to sinners, he punished an innocent one. You have such jewels in your teachings?

Then a God coming down to earth being born out of the womb of a sinful woman? Did any prophet of God ever teach such things in any earlier Jewish system? We do not believe Jesus or Mary to be sinful. But you must do that because you say that every new born baby is sinful. So Mary must have been born a sinful one.

I will leave you (R_not) with those questions to consider and prepare some sensible replies for them. There is nothing about such false things in the Quran or Hadith.
The only thing displayed with your statement here is the lack of knowledge of Catholicism.
Your ignorance is just getting worse and worse of late, the more we educate you on the truth, the more you seem to want to keep it at bay and refuse to learn anything.
 
R_not, there is nothing rational in the bible. The pious birth, the only pious birth, the son of God, you may be having a father of God too. (Yes you have a fathe rof god). Then three gods in One God. Then the original sin taught by the church. That every new born baby is a sinner.

That to relieve all the sinners, your God was so loving and merciful that he killed his own son (Jesus) on the cross. That is to give relief to sinners, he punished an innocent one. You have such jewels in your teachings?

Then a God coming down to earth being born out of the womb of a sinful woman? Did any prophet of God ever teach such things in any earlier Jewish system? We do not believe Jesus or Mary to be sinful. But you must do that because you say that every new born baby is sinful. So Mary must have been born a sinful one.

I will leave you (R_not) with those questions to consider and prepare some sensible replies for them. There is nothing about such false things in the Quran or Hadith.
Once again I will tell you that if you want to discuss the Bible start a different thread.

This is a thread about the koran and hadiths. Are you unable to get that into your head?

As for your questions - when I get my question answered first from you about the proof that the Bible was corrupted without using the koran, hadiths, or anything else from an illiterate pagan then I will think about answering your questions.

You cannot so you are trying to deflect. It gets so old with you.🤷
 
The only thing displayed with your statement here is the lack of knowledge of Catholicism.
Your ignorance is just getting worse and worse of late, the more we educate you on the truth, the more you seem to want to keep it at bay and refuse to learn anything.
👍

I stopped answering his off the wall questions. He has one question that he has to answer before I answer anything not on topic anymore. Yeah, I can imagine that someone new will take a peek and call me a name or something - but if they haven’t had to deal with this guy they don’t have any idea of his junk.
 
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