Discussion on this Sunday's Readings

[Fidelis]

Please join in!

For Sunday, January 7, 2007
The Epiphany of the Lord—Cycle ABC

Isaiah 60:1-6 *(Ps 72:1-2,7-8,10-13) * Ephesians 3:2-3a, 5-6 Matthew 2:1-12

Overview of the Gospel:
· The word “Epiphany” means an appearance, especially of a king or other important person. The Feast of the Epiphany marks the appearance of the Messiah to the Gentiles (non-Jews) represented by the Magi. It is also celebrated as the 12th day of Christmas, marking the end of that liturgical season, and beginning of the liturgical season of Ordinary time.
· The Magi, astrologers or sages from the east, come to Jerusalem seeking “the newborn king of the Jews” after seeing “his star at its rising” (v. 2).
· Herod, the reigning king of Judea, was a paranoid and violent ruler who was known to put to death any and all threats to his throne (including several wives and children). He pretends to help the Magi as a means to destroy this new rival.
· Despite Herod’s schemes, the Magi are able to find and worship the newborn King in safety, though Herod’s fury later will have tragic results (see Mt 2:13-18).

Questions:
· Why was it important for Jesus to be born in the city of David, Bethlehem, a name which means “house of bread” (v. 4-6; Micah 5:1-3; 2 Samuel 5:2)?
· What do the star, the Magi, the gifts, the homage, the hostility and the prophecy teach about the significance of Jesus?
· Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus?
· Note the responses of the Magi upon finding Jesus. How are they similar to the response that Christians make to Jesus, including before the Blessed Sacrament?
· What is the “gold, frankincense, and myrrh” in your life? How have you offered this to Jesus?

Catechism of the Catholic Church: §§ 528, 486, 724

*Like the Magi, we have discovered a star—a light and guide in the sky of our soul. “We have seen his star in the east and have come to worship him.” We have had the same experience. We too noticed a new light shining in our soul and growing increasingly brighter. It was a desire to live a fully Christian life, a keenness to take God seriously. * St. Josemaria Escriva

 

[Fidelis]

After we’ve read the passage (Matthew 2:1-12) and the Overview above,why don’t we start with the first question:

Why was it important for Jesus to be born in the city of David, Bethlehem, a name which means “house of bread” (v. 4-6; Micah 5:1-3; 2 Samuel 5:2)?

Link to today’s passage (Matthew 2:1-12):
usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew2.htm
Link to Micah 5:1-3:
usccb.org/nab/bible/micah/micah5.htm
Link to 2 Samuel 5:2:
usccb.org/nab/bible/2samuel/2samuel5.htm

 

[NotWorthy]

Matthew clearly wants to establish the link between Jesus and David. The word “David” is used, what, 6 times in the first chapter of Matthew? It was important for Matthew to show that Jesus was a shoot from the stump of Jesse, since it was prophecied to David that God would establish an everlasting kingdom through his descendents, one that would be a light to all the world.

Jesus would be nothing to the Jews, UNLESS he came from the line of David.

As a secondary theme, the “House of Bread” would introduce us to the Eucharistic theme that flows through Matthew’s story, such as the multiplication of the loaves, and the baby placed in a manger (where’s the animals would normally come to eat).

 

[Fidelis]

Why was it important for Jesus to be born in the city of David, Bethlehem, a name which means “house of bread” (v. 4-6; Micah 5:1-3; 2 Samuel 5:2)?

Matthew clearly wants to establish the link between Jesus and David. The word “David” is used, what, 6 times in the first chapter of Matthew? It was important for Matthew to show that Jesus was a shoot from the stump of Jesse, since it was prophecied to David that God would establish an everlasting kingdom through his descendents, one that would be a light to all the world.

That’s right. Not only did it fulfill the prophecy of the prophet Micah and God’s promise to David in 2 Samuel, but also Isaiah 11, to which you referred, which picks up on the promise to David and his descendants:
usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah11.htm

As a secondary theme, the “House of Bread” would introduce us to the Eucharistic theme that flows through Matthew’s story, such as the multiplication of the loaves, and the baby placed in a manger (where’s the animals would normally come to eat).

Right. Jesus is not only the Word of God, but even as a baby when he isn’t saying anything, he is the Bread of Life.

 

[Pug]

I like the example of how the Holy Spirit reaches us where we are. The Magi were really far away, plus they weren’t Jewish or anything. Yet God drew them that far, and he drew them through something they knew, the stars.

Also, I love how the gospel is not just for the Jews, but for the whole world. That message is right there in the stable, right from the start. Christ is a light for the nations (everyone) and glory for his people Israel. In this mystery revealed we see how the promise to Abraham was playing out. All the nations are blessed through his seed.

 

[NotWorthy]

I like the example of how the Holy Spirit reaches us where we are. The Magi were really far away, plus they weren’t Jewish or anything. Yet God drew them that far, and he drew them through something they knew, the stars.

Also, I love how the gospel is not just for the Jews, but for the whole world. That message is right there in the stable, right from the start. Christ is a light for the nations (everyone) and glory for his people Israel. In this mystery revealed we see how the promise to Abraham was playing out. All the nations are blessed through his seed.

The Magi are Matthew’s way of showing that the Gentiles were quite ready and willing to believe in the Messiah, even from a distance, while the Jews were denying it (or just missing the message) even while it happened under their own noses.

This is further emphasized even during Jesus’ death. While the Jews were pressuring Pilate to guard the tomb to prevent those crazy disciples from stealing their “false messiah”, the Roman Centurion (a Gentile) and his men see the truth in striking clarity:

"The centurion and the men with him who were keeping watch over Jesus feared greatly when they saw the earthquake and all that was happening, and they said, "Truly, this was the Son of God!"

I know Matthew is inspired, but I often have trouble reading it, because the author spends a lot of time chastising (to put it mildly) the Jews - much more so than the other Gospel authors.

It doesn’t give me that “warm fuzzy” like the other Gospels do. Do you know what I mean?

 

[Pug]

It doesn’t give me that “warm fuzzy” like the other Gospels do. Do you know what I mean?

Good point about the Roman centurion being another Gentile to notice Jesus.

Did you mean to say the gospel of John, not Matthew? John is full of things like,

The disciples said to him, “Rabbi, the Jews were just trying to stone you, and you want to go back there?”

His gospel is littered with the word. When I read it, I see the word as meaning the Jewish temple authorities, like the Sanhedrin. Like the “lawyers (scribes), Pharisees, and hypocrites” of Matthew. Still, I can feel the word as grating.

I’ve been told before that it was to the shepherds (Jewish) that the first thing happens, not to the magi, and they first arrive to worship Jesus. Perhaps it is because for the shepherds it happened that night, but the magi had to journey to get there? Anyway, the shepherds show that the Jewish regular Joe did respond eagerly.

You know, something of what you say reminds me of Nineveh, the place Jonah was so reluctant to go and preach. Like the magi, they eagerly welcomed the news brought to them. Jonah had barely opened his mouth and they repented. Nineveh wasn’t Jewish is my point.

Ah. Here is a scripture so my turn of mind doesn’t seem totally unjustified:

Luke11:32 At the judgment the men of Nineveh will arise with this generation and condemn it, because at the preaching of Jonah they repented, and there is something greater than Jonah here.

And just before this verse they mention the Queen of Sheba traveling a long distance to hear the wisdom of Solomon (sounds like the magi sort of). So we have both Jonah and Solomon as sort of like Jesus with the Gentiles. Whew.

 

[Leperchaun]

· What do the star, the Magi, the gifts, the homage, the hostility and the prophecy teach about the significance of Jesus?

-The star… Lessee what I recall on this one (translation: watch me butcher what little history I recall). It was thought (by the Romans, among others, I believe) that every king had a star that was ‘theirs’ and would appear at their birth. The Romans also thought that upon death, caesars would ascend into the pantheon as gods. This is symbolic of the birth of a god/king in Jesus.

-The Magi are obviously symbolic of the calling to the Gentiles in Jesus’ ministry.

-The gifts: gold, frankincense, and myrrh. The first two fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah. Further, gold is the gift of kings (Christ as king), frankincense is used in offerings (Jesus offered himself up for our sins in the ultimate sacrifice), and myrrh is an oil used in annointing the dead (fortelling of Jesus’ death, not exactly the happiest gift).

-The homage is symbol of the Godhood of Jesus, even as an infant who in his humanity is naught but a babe.

-The hosility, well, kind of given at this point that it is symbol of the hostility to His mission that Jesus and all of his followers will find themselves facing throughout life on this earth. Also, it led to the the fulfillment of another prophecy (Hosea 11:1).

-The prophecy was for the Jews that through it they might know and recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

 

[NotWorthy]

Good point about the Roman centurion being another Gentile to notice Jesus.

Did you mean to say the gospel of John, not Matthew? John is full of things like,

His gospel is littered with the word. When I read it, I see the word as meaning the Jewish temple authorities, like the Sanhedrin. Like the “lawyers (scribes), Pharisees, and hypocrites” of Matthew. Still, I can feel the word as grating.

No, I mean Matthew. In Matthew, I see so much of Jesus’ anger, and it’s hard to reconcile with the Jesus revealed in John’s Gospel, where we see Jesus weep over the loss of his friend, Lazarus.

Even though there are many contentious moments between the Jews and Jesus in John’ s Gospel (BTW, many scholars look at all these confrontations beteen Jesus and the Jews in John’s Gospel as a Trial Scene. The Jews are always demanding witnesses and cross examining those that preach of Jesus’ miracles), there isn’t the outright anger that I see in Matthew.

I’ve been told before that it was to the shepherds (Jewish) that the first thing happens, not to the magi, and they first arrive to worship Jesus. Perhaps it is because for the shepherds it happened that night, but the magi had to journey to get there? Anyway, the shepherds show that the Jewish regular Joe did respond eagerly.

Yes, the Jews responded eagerly. Let me present two points, here.

1. It was a whole multitude of angels that told the story of Jesus’ birth to the shepherds. It was a bright star that heralded his birth to the Magi. I think waking up to thousands of angels praising the birth of Christ would motivate even the hardest of hearts.
2. The shepherds, as we learned in the OT, were usually the youngest of the family (look at the story of David). Jesus preached so much about how we should be childlike in our faith. Notwithstanding my point above on the visible sign given them (the multitude of angels) it was the younger, more childlike generation of Israel, that was the first to receive the news of Christ’s Birth!!! AMEN!!!

You know, something of what you say reminds me of Nineveh, the place Jonah was so reluctant to go and preach. Like the magi, they eagerly welcomed the news brought to them. Jonah had barely opened his mouth and they repented. Nineveh wasn’t Jewish is my point.

Ah. Here is a scripture so my turn of mind doesn’t seem totally unjustified:

And just before this verse they mention the Queen of Sheba traveling a long distance to hear the wisdom of Solomon (sounds like the magi sort of). So we have both Jonah and Solomon as sort of like Jesus with the Gentiles. Whew.

Jonah’s three days in the whale, his scene where the waters are calmed when he’s thrown overboard, and his prophesying to Ninevah (to the gentiles) are all pre-figuring Christ.

Jonah is a very strong “Type” or pre-figuring of Christ. Good call there, Pug!

 

[NotWorthy]

-The gifts: gold, frankincense, and myrrh. The first two fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah. Further, gold is the gift of kings (Christ as king), frankincense is used in offerings (Jesus offered himself up for our sins in the ultimate sacrifice), and myrrh is an oil used in annointing the dead (fortelling of Jesus’ death, not exactly the happiest gift).

I had always heard that myrrh was an oil for annointing, too. But then I was struck by an odd verse in chapter 15, verse 23 of Mark’s Gospel.

*** They gave him wine drugged with myrrh, but he did not take it.***

Now, what’s up with that?

BTW, interesting name, Leperchaun! Freudian Slip or subtle pun?

 

[Fidelis]

Why was it important for Jesus to be born in the city of David, Bethlehem, a name which means “house of bread” (v. 4-6; Micah 5:1-3; 2 Samuel 5:2)?

Lot’s of great comments so far!

I like the example of how the Holy Spirit reaches us where we are. The Magi were really far away, plus they weren’t Jewish or anything. Yet God drew them that far, and he drew them through something they knew, the stars.

Also, I love how the gospel is not just for the Jews, but for the whole world. That message is right there in the stable, right from the start. Christ is a light for the nations (everyone) and glory for his people Israel. In this mystery revealed we see how the promise to Abraham was playing out. All the nations are blessed through his seed.

This brought to mind something that I just read: Aside from the appearance of the star and (according to many commentators) probably additional personal revelation from God (God seemed to speak to the Magi through dreams on several occasions), what else might have they known about this Jewish Messiah and how did they know it?

One of the places that the Magi are thought to come from was Persia, an area renowned at that time for magoi (sort of astrologer/wisemen/scholar types). This is also the region where, as you may recall, the Jews were exiled to for 70 years in the 6th century, B.C. While there, they surely shared their traditions and writings (including their holy writings) with the wise, scholarly and inquisitive of that area. These wise men likely knew of these stories from their studies.

Scott Hahn points out that, when Solomon built the Temple, it was meant to attract all the nations to the God of Israel. The visit of the Queen of Sheba was the high point of this time. God’s people, however, failed to carry the message to the Gentile world until Solomon’s temple was destroyed by the Babylonians and they went into exile. Thus, since the nations didn’t go to God, God sent his message to the nations. The Magi can be seen as the first fruits of this.

 

[NotWorthy]

Scott Hahn points out that, when Solomon built the Temple, it was meant to attract all the nations to the God of Israel. The visit of the Queen of Sheba was the high point of this time. God’s people, however, failed to carry the message to the Gentile world until Solomon’s temple was destroyed by the Babylonians and they went into exile. Thus, since the nations didn’t go to God, God sent his message to the nations. The Magi can be seen as the first fruits of this.

:clapping: Bravo!!!

 

[Mintaka]

Apparently if you go to the verse about Bethlehem-Ephrata, there are verses right around it saying how the Messiah was going to do bad things to Moab and Edom. And apparently Herod’s family was from Moab and Edom, so there was a very pointed reason for him to be hostile.

Myrrh apparently had certain medicinal and soothing qualities; probably it would have helped Jesus’ throat. Heck, maybe it would have actually drugged him. It is used today in at least one alcoholic drink (Fernet Branca), according to Wikipedia’s myrrh article. Sounds like a good treat for Epiphany, if you can find it!

Interestingly, this article suggests that the myrrh in Jesus’ time may have been a bit different than what’s used today, as they had a liquid myrrh back then.

Myrrh on botanical.com

Btw, vinegar/sour wine with gall in it was pretty common for Roman soldiers to drink as a pick-me-up. (American pioneers also drank a lot of vinegar drinks, and in the Middle East there’s a lot of sweetened vinegar – sekanjabin. And apparently the Vietnamese drink alcohol flavored with snake gall bladders, Lord knows why.) So it was actually kindly meant.

 

[NotWorthy]

Mintaka, as stated in another thread, thank you so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Welcome to the Forums!!!

 

[Fidelis]

Apparently if you go to the verse about Bethlehem-Ephrata, there are verses right around it saying how the Messiah was going to do bad things to Moab and Edom. And apparently Herod’s family was from Moab and Edom, so there was a very pointed reason for him to be hostile.

Exactly right! That leads us into our second question, which Leperchaun touched upon previously (Post #8):

What do the star, the Magi, the gifts, the homage, the hostility and the prophecy teach about the significance of Jesus?

Hereod the Great was only half-Jewish, his mother being an Edomite, the historic enemies of the Jews. The Jewish people barely tolerated him, and he was extremely paranoid about hanging on to his power. There were, indeed many prophesies conected to the coming of the Messiah that implied that Edom would be crushed at that time, including Numbers 24:17-18 (note the mention of the rising star): usccb.org/nab/bible/numbers/numbers24.htm

Herod must have been “greatly troubled, and all Jerusalem with him” (v 3)!

 

[Leperchaun]

I had always heard that myrrh was an oil for annointing, too. But then I was struck by an odd verse in chapter 15, verse 23 of Mark’s Gospel.

*** They gave him wine drugged with myrrh, but he did not take it.***

Now, what’s up with that?

BTW, interesting name, Leperchaun! Freudian Slip or subtle pun?

It was a common additive in perfumes and oils for its smell. It was also not uncommon in wine (in small amounts). However, in larger amounts myrrh will act as an analgesic (pain killer), this is likely the effect that was sought at the crucifixion, and the reason that Jesus did not take the wine.

Name: intended (I’m Irish:shamrock: )

 

[Pug]

No, I mean Matthew. In Matthew, I see so much of Jesus’ anger, and it’s hard to reconcile with the Jesus revealed in John’s Gospel, where we see Jesus weep over the loss of his friend, Lazarus.

I haven’t noticed what you mean except in those woes, with how he laments over Jerusalem. I am especially hit by the whitewashed tombs thing and that their house is left desolate. Well, also there is the sheep and the goats in Matthew only, and that is one scary scene!

I’d never considered the Trial Scene idea for the Jews in John.

it was the younger, more childlike generation of Israel, that was the first to receive the news of Christ’s Birth!!! AMEN!!!

Yes. Children, women, poor, sick, tax collectors, prostitutes, and shepherds all listen to Jesus. Apparently Magi as well. I’d never thought about it, but the Gentiles are poor in relation to Israel back then because Israel had the promises and covenants and all the personal connection to God, but the Gentiles did not. The good news must have been all the more appealing. I mean, I guess, that the Jews already had much of the truth to start, so they were relatively flush in the truth department.

Like how it is easier to convert a person who isn’t super religious, than a person who is already satisfied with the religion they have.

Edit: I never wondered before, but you have made me think. Why the huge host appearing to some shepherds? One angel maybe, but why is the host there, and not, say, at the manger? Though, it is cool how two sets of people sort of show up at the manger, like they got drawn to Jesus.

 

[Fidelis]

What do the star, the Magi, the gifts, the homage, the hostility and the prophecy teach about the significance of Jesus?

More about the star: *What exactly was it? *The Early Church Fathers (ECFs) commented on this extensively with a wide range of opinions.

The consensus is that it was not a “star” (immense gaseous bodies millions of light years away) as such. For one thing, if the Magi were astrologers worth their salt, they wouldn’t confuse what they saw with a planetary convergence or a super-nova, etc. Likewise, stars don’t move around and sit stationary over “a house” or any other earthly object. It must have been low enough to clearly indicate the exact place where Jesus was. They also don’t disappear and reappear like this object reportedly did.

So what was it? Some ECF’s point out that, in the Bible, stars are often identified with angels (especially in the Book of Revelation). They conjecture, therefore, that this star may have been an angel that appeared as a star to guide them and lead them to the Christ child.

 

[Pug]

Herod must have been “greatly troubled, and all Jerusalem with him” (v 3)!

Since Herod was the sort to slaughter people, I can see how all of Jerusalem would be troubled if they knew he was troubled, but I wonder if that is all that is meant by that extra clause? Besides King Herod and the Magi, there is another group mentioned, “all the chief priests and scribes of the people”. Herod consulted them, so I assume they were aware of the Magi and their quest. Were they troubled, or were they indifferent? If they are “all Jerusalem”, then they were troubled. But Bethlehem was right there by Jerusalem. Since they had the knowledge that Bethlehem was where to look, and there were these odd Magi, they could have easily strolled down to Bethlehem. So maybe they were indifferent, in contrast to Herod who was troubled and the Magi who were overjoyed. Do you suppose they could not see the Magi’s star?

More about the star

A star = a light, Christ is the light, a light for revelation

Also for some reason it reminds me of how correspondingly Satan fell like a star from heaven, and Christ is born with a rising star. Like a falling power and a rising one.

 

[Fidelis]

What do the star, the Magi, the gifts, the homage, the hostility and the prophecy teach about the significance of Jesus?

Besides King Herod and the Magi, there is another group mentioned, “all the chief priests and scribes of the people”. Herod consulted them, so I assume they were aware of the Magi and their quest. Were they troubled, or were they indifferent? If they are “all Jerusalem”, then they were troubled. But Bethlehem was right there by Jerusalem. Since they had the knowledge that Bethlehem was where to look, and there were these odd Magi, they could have easily strolled down to Bethlehem. So maybe they were indifferent, in contrast to Herod who was troubled and the Magi who were overjoyed. Do you suppose they could not see the Magi’s star?

One thing about this I find interesting: Usually when you hear this group mentioned in the Gospels, it’s rendered “the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders” (this is thought to constitute the Sanhedrin, the informal ruling body of Jerusalem made up of 70 men. See Matthew 16:21; 27:41). However, in this case, the elders are not mentioned. Why not? Did Herod not consult them? Why not?

Usually one associates elders with wisdom; with having the benefit of long experience to be able to examine a question from a mature, thoughtful viewpoint. My guess is that Herod wasn’t interested in this type of advice; like many worldlings, he was only interested in technical advice and the bottom line, and not at all concerned with finding out what important, transcendent meaning might be behind these events.