Discussion on this Sunday's Readings

[lak611]

Please join in!

For Sunday, January 7, 2007
The Epiphany of the Lord—Cycle ABC

Isaiah 60:1-6 *(Ps 72:1-2,7-8,10-13) * Ephesians 3:2-3a, 5-6 Matthew 2:1-12

Overview of the Gospel:
· The word “Epiphany” means an appearance, especially of a king or other important person. The Feast of the Epiphany marks the appearance of the Messiah to the Gentiles (non-Jews) represented by the Magi. It is also celebrated as the 12th day of Christmas, marking the end of that liturgical season, and beginning of the liturgical season of Ordinary time.
· The Magi, astrologers or sages from the east, come to Jerusalem seeking “the newborn king of the Jews” after seeing “his star at its rising” (v. 2).
· Herod, the reigning king of Judea, was a paranoid and violent ruler who was known to put to death any and all threats to his throne (including several wives and children). He pretends to help the Magi as a means to destroy this new rival.
· Despite Herod’s schemes, the Magi are able to find and worship the newborn King in safety, though Herod’s fury later will have tragic results (see Mt 2:13-18).

Questions:
· Why was it important for Jesus to be born in the city of David, Bethlehem, a name which means “house of bread” (v. 4-6; Micah 5:1-3; 2 Samuel 5:2)?
· What do the star, the Magi, the gifts, the homage, the hostility and the prophecy teach about the significance of Jesus?
· Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus?
· Note the responses of the Magi upon finding Jesus. How are they similar to the response that Christians make to Jesus, including before the Blessed Sacrament?
· What is the “gold, frankincense, and myrrh” in your life? How have you offered this to Jesus?

Catechism of the Catholic Church: §§ 528, 486, 724

*Like the Magi, we have discovered a star—a light and guide in the sky of our soul. “We have seen his star in the east and have come to worship him.” We have had the same experience. We too noticed a new light shining in our soul and growing increasingly brighter. It was a desire to live a fully Christian life, a keenness to take God seriously. * St. Josemaria Escriva

Today at Mass, my pastor mentioned that the Magi, being pagan astrologers (where we get the word magician) would have used the gold, frankincense and myrrh in their trickery. When they came to faith in Jesus, they offered up those things to Him. In a similar way, if there is something in our lives that is keeping us from Jesus, we need to offer it up to Him. Once that thing is gone, we can live better lives in relationship with Jesus.

 

[Fidelis]

What do the star, the Magi, the gifts, the homage, the hostility and the prophecy teach about the significance of Jesus?

There is a side discussion about Herod going on this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=127374

 

[Fidelis]

Let’s move on to our third question:

Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus?

 

[Fidelis]

Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus?

First of all, What do we know about the Magi? Astrologers, or wise men, they were probably from Persia, a place famous for their religion. Traditionally named Kaspar, Balthasar, and Melchior. They may have been familiar with the Jew’s expectation of a Messiah, as mentioned above.

Most importantly, they were non-Jews, the first Gentiles to seek and find Jesus.

If they were astrolegers, why do we traditionally refer to them as “Kings”? See today’s readings Isaiah 60:1-6; Psalm 72ff.

Also, how many of them were there? It is usually depicted as there being three of them, but the text doesn’t specifically say.

 

[Pug]

However, in this case, the elders are not mentioned. Why not? Did Herod not consult them? Why not?

One thought I have on that (besides not wanting the wise answer) is that he wanted an answer that depended on scholarly knowledge of scripture, which might not have been the purview of the elders, but rather a priest or a scribe.

In the homily today, our priest mentioned a doctrinal point to go with this set of readings, the prohibition against divination. I don’t usually recall that piece of information with this reading, so I thought I’d pass it on as an insight.

Also, in our OT reading today, they mention camels. As a child, we always had a camel in our manger scene to go with the kings. Of course, a sheep to go with the shepherds as well.

Oh, one last thing. I know this is about the manifestation (epiphany) of Christ to the Gentiles, but I also recall that it is only through Jesus that we see the Father, so it reminds me of God’s revelation of himself to us.

 

[lak611]

First of all, What do we know about the Magi? Astrologers, or wise men, they were probably from Persia, a place famous for their religion. Traditionally named Kaspar, Balthasar, and Melchior. They may have been familiar with the Jew’s expectation of a Messiah, as mentioned above.

Most importantly, they were non-Jews, the first Gentiles to seek and find Jesus.

Also, how many of them were there? It is usually depicted as there being three of them, but the text doesn’t specifically say.

My pastor said yesterday during his homily that we really don’t know how many of them there were. Tradition just said there were 3 because of 3 gifts, and we don’t know their names either because the Bible doesn’t say. The names are just traditional (“tradition” not “Tradition”).

 

[Fidelis]

**Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus? **

My pastor said yesterday during his homily that we really don’t know how many of them there were. Tradition just said there were 3 because of 3 gifts, and we don’t know their names either because the Bible doesn’t say. The names are just traditional (“tradition” not “Tradition”).

That’s correct. Very early Christian depictions of them (in the catacombs, and so forth) have depicted as many as **14 **Magi present at this time!

There is an interesting side thread currently running discussing the Magi, found here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=122536

 

[Angelos]

No, I mean Matthew. In Matthew, I see so much of Jesus’ anger, and it’s hard to reconcile with the Jesus revealed in John’s Gospel, where we see Jesus weep over the loss of his friend, Lazarus.

I somehow find only in John’s Gospel that Jesus makes a whip of cords to cleanse the temple and drive the money collectors out:

John 2:15. And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen: and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew.

Likewise, I can read only in John’s Gospel that Jesus’ response to the ones coming to arrest Him causes dismay:

John 18:6. As soon therefore as he had said to them: I am he; they went backward and fell to the ground.

Only John’s Gospel relates that Jesus challenged His adversaries during His trial:

John 18:23. Jesus answered him: If I have spoken evil, give testimony of the evil; but if well, why strikest thou me?

Peace to you,
Angelos N.

 

[NotWorthy]

I somehow find only in John’s Gospel that Jesus makes a whip of cords to cleanse the temple and drive the money collectors out:

John 2:15. And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen: and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew.

Likewise, I can read only in John’s Gospel that Jesus’ response to the ones coming to arrest Him causes dismay:

John 18:6. As soon therefore as he had said to them: I am he; they went backward and fell to the ground.

Only John’s Gospel relates that Jesus challenged His adversaries during His trial:

John 18:23. Jesus answered him: If I have spoken evil, give testimony of the evil; but if well, why strikest thou me?

Peace to you,
Angelos N.

That’s the wonderful thing about opinions.

But I seem to recall sitting in daily mass for several days in a row where the Gospels went through chapter 23 of Matthew. This is where Jesus tears into the scribes and Pharisees, calling them a brood of vipers and such.

It wasn’t a very uplifting week.

 

[Angelos]

That’s the wonderful thing about opinions.

But I seem to recall sitting in daily mass for several days in a row where the Gospels went through chapter 23 of Matthew. This is where Jesus tears into the scribes and Pharisees, calling them a brood of vipers and such.

It wasn’t a very uplifting week.

Hi NotWorthy

I know that chapter very well as much as I know that in both Matthew & Luke’s Gospel *John the Baptist *criticizes the Jewish religious authorities with exactly the same words:

Matthew 3:7. And seeing many of the *Pharisees and Sadducees *coming to his baptism, he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath showed you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luke 3:7. He said therefore to the multitudes that went forth to be baptized by him: Ye offspring of vipers, who hath showed you to flee from the wrath to come?

Besides, Jesus rebukes Jewish religious authorities for their hypocricy in Luke’s Gospel too:

Luke 12:1. And when great multitudes stood about him, so that they trod one upon another, he began to say to his disciples: Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Actually, in Luke Jesus addresses Pharisees & other religious figures with harsh statements in chapter **11: 39 **thru **54 **(these accusations are almost identical with the ones in Matthew 23)

Yet we find Jesus’ most audacious denunciation of Jews in John’s Gospel:

John 8:44. You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

Peace to you,
Angelos N.

 

[Holland]

After the visit from the Magi did people continue to seek out Jesus? They don’t say much about what happens between His birth and the start of his public ministry as an adult.

 

[MariaG]

Let’s move on to our third question:

Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus?

Even if they were not familiar with the Jewish belief of the Messiah, it makes more sense that the they left everything to follow the star, if the “star” were actually an angel. The only reason I could think that the Magi would leave and follow the star, whatever the “star” was, was a supernatural revelation from God.

For me, I had to leave the comfort of my Evangelical brothers and sisters in Christ. It hurts to have the close fellowship and then be considered not a Christian anymore by many because you go back to the Catholic Church.

I imagine it could not have been an easy thing for the Magi to follow that star, whether it was an angel or a comet or whatever. I can just picture the spouse standing there saying “You are going to do WHAT? Based on that stupid star?”

Doing what you know God wants you to do can cause pain to those you love.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Fidelis]

After the visit from the Magi did people continue to seek out Jesus? They don’t say much about what happens between His birth and the start of his public ministry as an adult.

The Gospels don’t record any such activity (which doesn’t mean it didn’t happen – it’s simply not recorded one way or the other as being important for us to know).

We do know that among the Jews, however, the anticipation for the appearance of the Messiah remained high, as witnessed by all the buzz several years later around John the Baptist and Jesus. John 1:19-28:
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john1.htm

 

[Fidelis]

Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus?

Even if they were not familiar with the Jewish belief of the Messiah, it makes more sense that the they left everything to follow the star, if the “star” were actually an angel. The only reason I could think that the Magi would leave and follow the star, whatever the “star” was, was a supernatural revelation from God.

I’ve always thought so too. It seems like God, on at least one occasion, touched them through dreams, so direct private revelation from God was not out of the question for them.

For me, I had to leave the comfort of my Evangelical brothers and sisters in Christ. It hurts to have the close fellowship and then be considered not a Christian anymore by many because you go back to the Catholic Church.

:yup:

I imagine it could not have been an easy thing for the Magi to follow that star, whether it was an angel or a comet or whatever. I can just picture the spouse standing there saying “You are going to do WHAT? Based on that stupid star?”

Doing what you know God wants you to do can cause pain to those you love.

It’s a common experience for those who feel called to serve God in even a slightly more radical way than their friends and family do. We’re usually considered the “zealots” or “religious fanatics” of the group who are tolerated by those who do “good enough.”

When you have to take radical life changing and convention challenging action, as did the Magi (who could have just looked at this King of the Jews/star/Epiphany thing as merely an academic exercise and could have stayed in their ivory towers), then that constitutes risk taking, whether 2000 years ago, or today.

 

[Holland]

Let’s move on to our third question:

Since the Magi were pagan astrologers, why would they leave everything to follow that star? In your journey toward God, how are you like the Magi? Unlike them? Have you had to leave anything to follow Jesus?

My journey was very much like that of the Magi. It began as a dream where my arms were outstretched towards Jesus, in the middle of a crowd of people, but I couldn’t touch him because I was so far away. It was almost physically painful from the standpoint of sorrow and yearning combined. At that point in my life I had been away from the Church 20 plus years and I really didn’t like the dream much but it kept coming back. It took 5 years of having that dream periodically to get me back to the Church; my camel was a little slow. I still have the dream sometimes, but I know longer feel the sorrow, just the yearning, and I am no longer on the fringes of the crowd. My coming back to the Church has caused some unrest in my family but not as bad as I thought it would be. I even caught my husband, ( he isn’t Catholic), reading my copy of the Catechism.

 

[NotWorthy]

FIDELIS, would now be a good time to discuss all the OT references in this text. We were studying these verses yesterday and came across at least 6 Old Testament references in these 12 verses. Of course, one is easy, but the rest are a little bit deeper.

I’ll bring them up tonight when I have more time, but one of the connections was Herod using the Magi (from the East) to bring harm to Jesus, just as Balak tried to use Balaam (from the East) to bring harm to the tribes of Israel, in the book of Numbers. And just like Balak, Herod failed, as both groups of visitors from the east help do God’s Will.

Sidenote, I think the story of Balak and Balaam is one of the funniest stories in the Bible. I could see the pagan priest working himself into a frenzy trying to bring up the perfect curse on Israel, and all that comes out are blessings. And then I imagine Balak fuming when he realized he paid good money for nothing. That would have been fun to watch!!!

 

[Fidelis]

FIDELIS, would now be a good time to discuss all the OT references in this text. We were studying these verses yesterday and came across at least 6 Old Testament references in these 12 verses. Of course, one is easy, but the rest are a little bit deeper.

Absolutely! Anytime you’re ready.

I’ll bring them up tonight when I have more time, but one of the connections was Herod using the Magi (from the East) to bring harm to Jesus, just as Balak tried to use Balaam (from the East) to bring harm to the tribes of Israel, in the book of Numbers. And just like Balak, Herod failed, as both groups of visitors from the east help do God’s Will.

For those who want to pre-view this episode, go here and skim over Numbers 22–24:
usccb.org/nab/bible/numbers/numbers22.htm
The good part, IMHO is when you get to Chapter 24! It is also the part that contains the key prophecy that we’ll be discussing.

Sidenote, I think the story of Balak and Balaam is one of the funniest stories in the Bible. I could see the pagan priest working himself into a frenzy trying to bring up the perfect curse on Israel, and all that comes out are blessings. And then I imagine Balak fuming when he realized he paid good money for nothing. That would have been fun to watch!!! I think so too! (Wouldn’t it be fun to start a seperate thread with all the funny stories of the Bible – this “stuffy religious book”?)

 

[Fidelis]

Speaking of Scripture allusions, this entire chapter of Matthew (chapter 2) is like a little Bible study unto itself. Here is the chapter again:

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew2.htm

It has been noted, that you can divide the chapter into distinct episodes…

Verses 1-6
Verses 7-12
Verses 13-18
Verses 19-23

…each of these episodes ends with an Old Testament Scripture citation – the Word of God. The only exception is the episode found in verses 7-12, included in our reading. This is because this is the place where Jesus – the Word of God Incarnate – himself appears!

 

[NotWorthy]

Speaking of Scripture allusions, this entire chapter of Matthew (chapter 2) is like a little Bible study unto itself. Here is the chapter again:

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew2.htm

It has been noted, that you can divide the chapter into distinct episodes…

Verses 1-6
Verses 7-12
Verses 13-18
Verses 19-23

…each of these episodes ends with an Old Testament Scripture citation – the Word of God. The only exception is the episode found in verses 7-12, included in our reading. This is because this is the place where Jesus – the Word of God Incarnate – himself appears!

I never realized this. I’d heard (and I hope I’m not repeating any earlier posts) that the whole book of Matthew is like a mini-Pentatauch. Matthew has a Prologue (Jesus infancy), then 5 books, then an epilogue (Jesus’ death). Here’s how it’s described on Catholic Culture’s web-site

Each “book” opens with a narrative, followed by a discourse, ending with some such words as: “When Jesus finished these words.”(7:28; 11:1; 13:53; 19:1; 26:11).
Preliminaries: Genealogy of Jesus, His birth, flight into Egypt, return to Nazareth: chapters 1 & 2.
Unit 1: a) Narrative: Chapters 3 & 4: John the Baptist, the Baptism of Jesus, His inaugural retreat and temptation in the desert, His call of the first disciples. **b) Discourse: Sermon on the Mount: **chapters 5, 6, 7.
Unit 2: a) Narrative: chapters 8, 9. Begins to announce the Kingdom of God, works many miracles to show His authority and power. b) Discourse: the trial missionary mission: 10. 1 to 11. 1.
Unit 3: a) Narrative: chapters 11, 12: People begin to reject Him. b) Discourse: chapters 12, 13. He turns to parables because of their blindness and rejection.
Unit 4: a) Narrative: 14. 1 -16:13: Death of the Baptist, more miracles, conflict with Pharisees, the Canaanite woman, multiplication of loaves and fishes. b) Discourse: 16:13-19:1 - Characteristics of the Church, it will be built on Peter.
Unit 5: a) Narrative: chapters 19, 20, 21, 22, 23: He leaves Galilee for Jerusalem. b) Discourse: the fall of Jerusalem and the end of the world. 24:1 to 26:1.
**Epilogue: Passion and resurrection. **

 

[NotWorthy]

The first OT reference is easy:

In Bethlehem*** of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet “And you, 0 Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.”*** (Matt 2:5-6). In this case he quotes a part of Micah 5:1-4.

Here’s a second, more subtle OT reference:

The scene in which the Magi come looking for the newborn king offers several allusions to the Old Testament. First, look at Matthew 2:4 that tells of Herod’s *"assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people". At first glance this statement may not appear to be of great significance. However, for the first-century Jewish readers of this Gospel, these words would bring to mind the famous messianic passage in Psalm 2. This psalm foretold that the powers of this world would assemble together to plot against the Lord’s anointed—the Messiah: “The kings of the earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and his anointed” (Psalm 2:2). Matthew uses this same language to show Herod, the chief priests and the scribes aligning themselves against the Christ child. Matthew’s use of this imagery highlights the fact that at the very beginning of Christ’s life, the world’s leaders already are plotting against him—just as Psalm 2 foretold.

Moreover, this same language is used later in Matthew’s Gospel to describe the chief priests, the elders and the Pharisees who “assembled” and “took counsel” as they were plotting to put Jesus to his death (see Matthew 22:15; 26:3; 27:1). Thus, Christ’s persecution in his infancy also serves as a foreshadowing of the attacks he will face as an adult at the height of his public ministry.