Discussion with a JW

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JWs routinely come to people’s door and ask if they have a few moments to “talk” about the Bible. The tough part is that they are really just seeking to use their Watchtower mags as a platform to feed you their doctrines as some kind of new insights instead of the Arian heresy reborn that it is.

I have also found that they love it when someone says they are Catholic or Episcopal or Lutheran because they consider these 3 to be the most Biblically ignorant of the apostates. It ruins their whole day when they encounter one of us that knows the Bible as well or better than they do and can explain and defend your faith.

As for this particular guy…🤷

One down and several thousand more to go.😃

Oh yeah, almost forgot. CA has a bunch or great resources that can really help equip you to respond to JWs.
http://shop.catholic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/210x210/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/e/beginning-apologetics-2_1.jpg
Beginning Apologetics Volume 2: How to Answer Jehovah’s Witnesses a…

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Beginning Apologetics Volume 2.5: Yes! You Should Believe In the Trinity

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Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses (Softcover Book)
 
Church_Militant said:
Me…I think they must’ve marked my mailbox or driveway because they never bother me anymore.
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They supposedly keep records of the houses that they visit and the results. I always talk to them also and I have noticed they have not been around in a while.

To me they are the epitome of “wolves in sheep’s clothing” as they have told me things like “We don’t care what faith you are, we just want to see that everyone is reading their Bible” and “it doesn’t matter which Bible you read”. Even when the poster started her, he claimed he was going to help us understand where “they” are coming from.

I respect them because they are spreading God’s word as they understand it (though I wonder how many would if it was optional) but I would have a lot more respect for them if they were more direct.
 
Waynec said:
I was under the impression they were not encouraged to use the internet.
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I was curious about that too, I guess they can go to the JW site, but I always thought they were not permitted to read non-JW material.

Calling them on Constantine is always a good one for me. If Constantine changed the faith, show me the before and after. Then they just shift to saying the apostasy in the first century. Make up your mind and show me why you believe this other than you read it in a Watchtower.

PS - back to your OP, any update on that?
 
ajcstr said:
I was curious about that too, I guess they can go to the JW site, but I always thought they were not permitted to read non-JW material.

Calling them on Constantine is always a good one for me. If Constantine changed the faith, show me the before and after. Then they just shift to saying the apostasy in the first century. Make up your mind and show me why you believe this other than you read it in a Watchtower.

PS - back to your OP, any update on that?
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By the way…if you want them to get lost, just insist that you’ll take their Watchtower and read it if they will accept a Catholic tract (or even a printout of an article from here on CA on JWs) . They won’t do it and that ends the discussion pretty quick.

BTW here’s a good article on that Constantine propaganda.
Constantine Has Been Beaten to Death
 
ajcstr said:
I was curious about that too, I guess they can go to the JW site, but I always thought they were not permitted to read non-JW material.

Calling them on Constantine is always a good one for me. If Constantine changed the faith, show me the before and after. Then they just shift to saying the apostasy in the first century. Make up your mind and show me why you believe this other than you read it in a Watchtower.

PS - back to your OP, any update on that?
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What I did was print out an article that some one on this tread posted a link to. One for me and one for my friend.(it was about 12 pages worth) I gave it to her to read and we will get together on Friday to discuss it.

When I first gave it to her last week the first thing that she did was flip through it pick out one sentence and said that she was not an open theist. Actually I think that is exactly what she is. I told her that you can’t pick out one sentence in the middle of the article. I am curious as to what she has to say on Friday.
 
ajcstr said:
To me they are the epitome of “wolves in sheep’s clothing” as they have told me things like “We don’t care what faith you are, we just want to see that everyone is reading their Bible” and “it doesn’t matter which Bible you read”. Even when the poster started her, he claimed he was going to help us understand where “they” are coming from.
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They’ll start with more general stuff like world peace and God’s promises in the Bible. Things that most people could agree on.

Then it gets to the specifics in the Bible.
ajcstr said:
I was curious about that too, I guess they can go to the JW site, but I always thought they were not permitted to read non-JW material.
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Indeed; they’re told not to associate with “apostates” nor purchase nor read their material.
Church_Militant said:
By the way…if you want them to get lost, just insist that you’ll take their Watchtower and read it if they will accept a Catholic tract (or even a printout of an article from here on CA on JWs) . They won’t do it and that ends the discussion pretty quick.

Exactly what my aunt used to say.

She’d get out her literature and say, “I’ll read that if you read this!” They didn’t read it.

Another way you could quietly end the conversation is to suggest that you and the JW pray together. They won’t do that.
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Church_Militant said:
By the way…if you want them to get lost, just insist that you’ll take their Watchtower and read it if they will accept a Catholic tract (or even a printout of an article from here on CA on JWs) . They won’t do it and that ends the discussion pretty quick.

BTW here’s a good article on that Constantine propaganda.
Constantine Has Been Beaten to Death
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Nah - I don’t mind the discussions. I read a book called “Can I get a Witness?”, the writer is a former JW who says he prays that his family members will knock on the door of someone who will turn them. So I always try.

Interesting article from CA. So, since Constantine sided with Arius, if he did alter the Church the Trinity would not be a doctrine. Maybe I’ll give that nugget a try next time.

Other thing I notice about the witnesses is that they claim to be very logical but in my experience they are anything but when it comes to history.
 
ajcstr said:
Nah - I don’t mind the discussions. I read a book called “Can I get a Witness?”, the writer is a former JW who says he prays that his family members will knock on the door of someone who will turn them. So I always try.

Interesting article from CA. So, since Constantine sided with Arius, if he did alter the Church the Trinity would not be a doctrine. Maybe I’ll give that nugget a try next time.

Other thing I notice about the witnesses is that they claim to be very logical but in my experience they are anything but when it comes to history.
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True that.👍
 
Waynec said:
My JW friend does use the JW.org site all the time on her iPad. The org. has all of their current literature on the site. They only go back maybe 10 years I think with their magazines because further back their doctrine is different.

Thanks for the link
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On the JW.org site find the December 2011 Awake magazine. I found this gem in a laundromat and there is an article worth reading called “The book that could not be destroyed” The following is taken from the article:

“The Catholic hierarchy certainly knew that
many of its teachings were based, not on
the Bible, but on church tradition. Doubtless,
this is one of the reasons for their reluctance
to allow their faithful to have access
to the Bible. By reading it, people would become
aware of the incompatibility between their church
doctrine and Scripture.”

Lets forget for a moment that through the Mass, the faithful would have heard the Bible read to them anyway.

Now, using logic, the Catholic Church was the only game in town for roughly 1,000 years. If the Church really wanted to suppress the Bible, there would be no Bible. So every priest, bishop, etc was in on the cover up because obviously all you have to do is read the Bible and realize the lies of the Catholic Church. I would think the clergy had access. Put another way, I myself don’t trust the Watchtower. I would never trust a book that they had total control over. So why do they trust a book that the Catholic Church (which is from Satan in their mind) pretty much had total control over for 600 or so years (once the canon was set).

I have a copy of this article and this will be the next thing I discuss when the doorbell rings.
 
ajcstr said:
On the JW.org site find the December 2011 Awake magazine. I found this gem in a laundromat and there is an article worth reading called “The book that could not be destroyed” The following is taken from the article:

“The Catholic hierarchy certainly knew that
many of its teachings were based, not on
the Bible, but on church tradition. Doubtless,
this is one of the reasons for their reluctance
to allow their faithful to have access
to the Bible. By reading it, people would become
aware of the incompatibility between their church
doctrine and Scripture.”

Lets forget for a moment that through the Mass, the faithful would have heard the Bible read to them anyway.

Now, using logic, the Catholic Church was the only game in town for roughly 1,000 years. If the Church really wanted to suppress the Bible, there would be no Bible. So every priest, bishop, etc was in on the cover up because obviously all you have to do is read the Bible and realize the lies of the Catholic Church. I would think the clergy had access. Put another way, I myself don’t trust the Watchtower. I would never trust a book that they had total control over. So why do they trust a book that the Catholic Church (which is from Satan in their mind) pretty much had total control over for 600 or so years (once the canon was set).

I have a copy of this article and this will be the next thing I discuss when the doorbell rings.
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Not to mention that since we do not have original manuscripts and what we do have are the copies of copies with human changes, footnotes that were made within that same 1,000 years, one must ask themself, if these footnotes and textural variances were not made by Catholics then by who and why?🤷

Peace!!!
 
adf417 said:
Not to mention that since we do not have original manuscripts and what we do have are the copies of copies with human changes, footnotes that were made within that same 1,000 years, one must ask themself, if these footnotes and textural variances were not made by Catholics then by who and why?🤷

Peace!!!
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I am going to look up that article. After reading it for myself I just might bring it up to her for discussion of this article and see what she has to say. I don’t read their magazines too much because they always find ways to bash Catholicism.

Any truth they have they got from Catholics.

Don’t forget they wrote their own bible.
 
adf417 said:
Not to mention that since we do not have original manuscripts and what we do have are the copies of copies with human changes, footnotes that were made within that same 1,000 years, one must ask themself, if these footnotes and textural variances were not made by Catholics then by who and why?🤷

Peace!!!
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I would like to have a paper copy of this article. Some times I write to the Watchtower to show them where they are wrong. Also do you notice that they do not cite where they get their quotes from? That is a huge flaw that they have in their writing. They know that if they did cite them some one would be able to find the quotes and see where the Watchtower got them wrong.
 
Waynec said:
I would like to have a paper copy of this article. Some times I write to the Watchtower to show them where they are wrong. Also do you notice that they do not cite where they get their quotes from? That is a huge flaw that they have in their writing. They know that if they did cite them some one would be able to find the quotes and see where the Watchtower got them wrong.
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You can always download it from their site as a PDF and print it. It’s coming right from their site, so it’s authenticity can’t be denied.
 
And a more current article is in the Watchtower issue 4 2016 (you can download the full publication as a pdf on the jw.org site under the publications tab on top/magazines tab on the side):

Some Catholic leaders, upset
that the laity were preaching what the Bible teaches
rather than Catholic dogma, branded as heretics
any laymen who possessed Bible books other
than the Psalms in Latin. One church council enforced
the command by directing that their men
“diligently, faithfully, and frequently seek out the
heretics . . . by searching all houses and subterranean
chambers which lie under any suspicion.
. . . The house in which any heretic shall be found
shall be destroyed.”
If the Bible’s enemies had succeeded in stamping
it out, its message would have disappeared.

(“some Catholic leaders”, “one church council” - the specifics are truly amazing)

Trinity doctrine: Less than 300 years after the
Bible was completed, a Trinitarian writer added to
1 John 5:7 the words “in heaven, the Father, the
Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are
one.” That statement did not appear in the original
text. “From the sixth century onwards,” notes
Bible scholar Bruce Metzger, those words were
“found more and more frequently in manuscripts
of the Old Latin and of the [Latin] Vulgate.”

(Ah, they also have the original text. Now the verse they are referring to was probably a later addition, but its the way they present it. As if “the Trinitarian writer” was the exception.)
 
ajcstr said:
And a more current article is in the Watchtower issue 4 2016 (you can download the full publication as a pdf on the jw.org site under the publications tab on top/magazines tab on the side):

Some Catholic leaders, upset
that the laity were preaching what the Bible teaches
rather than Catholic dogma, branded as heretics
any laymen who possessed Bible books other
than the Psalms in Latin. One church council enforced
the command by directing that their men
“diligently, faithfully, and frequently seek out the
heretics . . . by searching all houses and subterranean
chambers which lie under any suspicion.
. . . The house in which any heretic shall be found
shall be destroyed.”
If the Bible’s enemies had succeeded in stamping
it out, its message would have disappeared.

(“some Catholic leaders”, “one church council” - the specifics are truly amazing)

Trinity doctrine: Less than 300 years after the
Bible was completed, a Trinitarian writer added to
1 John 5:7 the words “in heaven, the Father, the
Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are
one.” That statement did not appear in the original
text. “From the sixth century onwards,” notes
Bible scholar Bruce Metzger, those words were
“found more and more frequently in manuscripts
of the Old Latin and of the [Latin] Vulgate.”

(Ah, they also have the original text. Now the verse they are referring to was probably a later addition, but its the way they present it. As if “the Trinitarian writer” was the exception.)
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I have the articles downloaded as PDF but it is easier for me to read from paper but I won’t waste my ink printing them out.

Another “masterpiece” of theirs is Should You Believe In The Trinity. Some one actually took the time to check out all the Watchtower sources. The creative editing in amazing. The make the Fathers say the opposite of what they actually say.

I have written to them on several occasions to have them tell me the source of their information. No surprise that I don’t receive answers. I am waiting for them to answer for me a request that that I made regarding an article that they have in their Insights books. I am still waiting.

When I brought up the truth of their Trinity book to my friend and showed her the “editing” they did her reply was that that was they wanted us to know. She didn’t question the editing at all. She just doesn’t seem to be interested in the truth at all. The only truth to her is the Watchtower. She is at their conference now this weekend.
 
Waynec said:
Another “masterpiece” of theirs is Should You Believe In The Trinity. Some one actually took the time to check out all the Watchtower sources. The creative editing in amazing. The make the Fathers say the opposite of what they actually say.
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Is this information available?
Waynec said:
She didn’t question the editing at all. She just doesn’t seem to be interested in the truth at all. The only truth to her is the Watchtower.
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Sadly that’s the problem. I would guess that she would say everything outside the Watchtower is demonic. In a tape set I listened to they stressed that it is more important to stop someone from entering this group than to try and pull someone out once they are in because they are so brainwashed.
 
Waynec said:
I have the articles downloaded as PDF but it is easier for me to read from paper but I won’t waste my ink printing them out.

Another “masterpiece” of theirs is Should You Believe In The Trinity. Some one actually took the time to check out all the Watchtower sources. The creative editing in amazing. The make the Fathers say the opposite of what they actually say.
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You may also want to point out that everytime this is done they justify all the times Watchtower information is taken and used out of context aginst them. It goes both ways but they dont want to acknowledge that they do exactly what they accuse others of doing. :rolleyes:

Peace!!!
 
JW does love. But is it according to the possibility to understand ultimate truth. I think not.
 
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