Dishonest polemics in inter-faith debates: Do the ends justify the means?

[Marybeloved]

There seems to be amongst many Christians, a lack of commitment to truth (or charity) in these online forums- People are fine making the most absurd and false comments about other faiths, when it does not reflect the other’s faith at all, even after correction is made.

For example,
It’s OK to say as a Catholic that we do not believe that the Protestant belief in sola-scriptura is true and to argue my position- It’s not OK to say that the Protestants practice bible-worship and are idolaters. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s OK for a Protestant to say that Catholic veneration of Mary, in his understanding, amounts to worship and should not be done- It’s not OK to say that Catholics teach that Mary is a goddess or the Pope God. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s Ok to reject Mohammed’s claim to prophet-hood, It’s not OK to say that Muslims believe in a moon-god. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.

I’ve noticed an attitude amongst many Christians: Orthodox, Catholics and Protestant fundamentalists, who engage in dishonesty willingly it seems, because it supports their belief that the other is wrong- It almost seems like an article of faith to be professed right along with the creed that this group holds to such and such or practices such and such, even when correction is given.

Q: **Why do Christians not consider dishonesty about other faiths ****in debates/discussions ****to be sin or at-least a very bad habit? **
Q: Is it justifiable to lie about other faiths (to demonize them) in order to promote your own?

 

[AbideWithMe]

Excellent post, Marybeloved.

I believe the mutual demonizing is, at the very least, an act of immaturity. I think we are all prone to it more than we realize, but some people cling to it more than others.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Q: Is it justifiable to lie about other faiths (to demonize them) in order to promote your own?

Also, I would define demonizing as usually more subtle than lying about other faiths—although that persistent lying does occur.

 

[Cavaradossi]

It’s a pretty complicated question, because the saints themselves could be quite polemical. I would say that honest polemics (if one can believe that such a thing exists) would be ok, but not telling falsehoods against others. A lot of what goes one appears to be what one might call, ‘invincible ignorance’.

 

[JRKH]

There seems to be amongst many Christians, a lack of commitment to truth (or charity) in these online forums- People are fine making the most absurd and false comments about other faiths, when it does not reflect the other’s faith at all, even after correction is made.

For example,
It’s OK to say as a Catholic that we do not believe that the Protestant belief in sola-scriptura is true and to argue my position- It’s not OK to say that the Protestants practice bible-worship and are idolaters. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s OK for a Protestant to say that Catholic veneration of Mary, in his understanding, amounts to worship and should not be done- It’s not OK to say that Catholics teach that Mary is a goddess or the Pope God. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s Ok to reject Mohammed’s claim to prophet-hood, It’s not OK to say that Muslims believe in a moon-god. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.

I’ve noticed an attitude amongst many Christians: Orthodox, Catholics and Protestant fundamentalists, who engage in dishonesty willingly it seems, because it supports their belief that the other is wrong- It almost seems like an article of faith to be professed right along with the creed that this group holds to such and such or practices such and such, even when correction is given.

Agree with the others that this is a fine post. Thank you for mentioning it.

Q: **Why do Christians not consider dishonesty about other faiths ****in debates/discussions ****to be sin or at-least a very bad habit? **

Christians DO consider dishonesty to be a sin and a bad habit. In many, most, cases the things you mention are said out of ignorance and - in some cases the person making the charge has assumed, or has been taught not to believe the other’s explanations of their faith beliefs.
Speaking from the Catholic perspective this occurs here occasionally where we have someone come here telling us what we believe and rejecting our attempts to correct them.
Likewise I have seen, and in fact been guilty of, similar behavior by Catholics toward others. I’m guilty of it myself.

Q: Is it justifiable to lie about other faiths (to demonize them) in order to promote your own?

In a word - NO.

Peace
James

 

[CompSciGuy]

I agree with this post 100%.

Though I wanted to mention, with regards to the “Protestants worship the Bible” statement, I don’t think Catholics necessarily accuse Protestants of actually worshiping the Bible and committing idolatry, I think it is sort of a metaphor to show how they hold an unrealistically high view of the Bible, and also sort of a reaction: it could be argued that Protestants have as strong a devotion to the written word of God as Catholics do to, say, Mary or the saints. I’m not saying this is a polemic that should be used, I’m just saying, I don’t think it is ever meant to be taken literally.

 

[Publisher]

There seems to be amongst many Christians, a lack of commitment to truth (or charity) in these online forums- People are fine making the most absurd and false comments about other faiths, when it does not reflect the other’s faith at all, even after correction is made.

For example,
It’s OK to say as a Catholic that we do not believe that the Protestant belief in sola-scriptura is true and to argue my position- It’s not OK to say that the Protestants practice bible-worship and are idolaters. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s OK for a Protestant to say that Catholic veneration of Mary, in his understanding, amounts to worship and should not be done- It’s not OK to say that Catholics teach that Mary is a goddess or the Pope God. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s Ok to reject Mohammed’s claim to prophet-hood, It’s not OK to say that Muslims believe in a moon-god. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.

I’ve noticed an attitude amongst many Christians: Orthodox, Catholics and Protestant fundamentalists, who engage in dishonesty willingly it seems, because it supports their belief that the other is wrong- It almost seems like an article of faith to be professed right along with the creed that this group holds to such and such or practices such and such, even when correction is given.

Q: **Why do Christians not consider dishonesty about other faiths ****in debates/discussions ****to be sin or at-least a very bad habit? **
Q: Is it justifiable to lie about other faiths (to demonize them) in order to promote your own?

This friend speaks my mind

 

[Marybeloved]

Also, I would define demonizing as usually more subtle than lying about other faiths—although that persistent lying does occur.

You’re absolutely right! I actually thought of a way of phrasing that subtle, “passive-aggressive” demonizing that is not so blatant as the usual “Mary is a pagan goddess” variety to include it in the main post, but I couldn’t come up with the proper phraseology.

I think that bottom line, we seem to need for others to be wrong (sometimes, downright devilish!) in order to justify our own faiths and positions- I just don’t understand why that is.

 

[JRKH]

You’re absolutely right! I actually thought of a way of phrasing that subtle, “passive-aggressive” demonizing that is not so blatant as the usual “Mary is a pagan goddess” variety, but I couldn’t come up with the proper phraseology.

I think that bottom line, we seem to need for others to be wrong (sometimes, downright satanic!) in order to justify our own faiths and positions- I just don’t understand why that is.

It is because we are weak, sinful, selfish people who are still trying to overcome our faults. Some are further along in this journey than others and this shows in how they interact with others.

Peace
James

 

[AmateurPianist]

There seems to be amongst many Christians, a lack of commitment to truth (or charity) in these online forums- People are fine making the most absurd and false comments about other faiths, when it does not reflect the other’s faith at all, even after correction is made.

For example,
It’s OK to say as a Catholic that we do not believe that the Protestant belief in sola-scriptura is true and to argue my position- It’s not OK to say that the Protestants practice bible-worship and are idolaters. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s OK for a Protestant to say that Catholic veneration of Mary, in his understanding, amounts to worship and should not be done- It’s not OK to say that Catholics teach that Mary is a goddess or the Pope God. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.
It’s Ok to reject Mohammed’s claim to prophet-hood, It’s not OK to say that Muslims believe in a moon-god. One is a legitimate view based on facts, the other a lie.

I’ve noticed an attitude amongst many Christians: Orthodox, Catholics and Protestant fundamentalists, who engage in dishonesty willingly it seems, because it supports their belief that the other is wrong- It almost seems like an article of faith to be professed right along with the creed that this group holds to such and such or practices such and such, even when correction is given.

Q: **Why do Christians not consider dishonesty about other faiths ****in debates/discussions ****to be sin or at-least a very bad habit? **
Q: Is it justifiable to lie about other faiths (to demonize them) in order to promote your own?

Yes! I agree.

And I am convinced there is something about the internet that brings out the worst of this behaviour.

 

[Marybeloved]

It is because we are weak, sinful, selfish people who are still trying to overcome our faults. Some are further along in this journey than others and this shows in how they interact with others.

Peace
James

Oh, well - I guess we can only try and stop ourselves when we catch ourselves doing it .

 

[TimothyH]

Why do we even have to point out the errors of other faiths in the first place? If the Catholic church has the fullness of truth, then why wouldn’t one just point to the truth and let it stand on its own merits?

Brother JR has pointed out several times how St. Anthony of Padua operated this way. While heretics were making all kinds of false statements about the faith and saying all kinds of evil things about him personally, he simply set up shop in a different part of town and spoke about the truth. He converted many people and his concience was clean because he didn’t utter a bad word about anyone or anything.

His actions are, of cource, in direct contrast to some of the comments I have made on threads recently, proving infallibly how far I am from sainthood.

-Tim-

 

[Marybeloved]

Why do we even have to point out the errors of other faiths in the first place? If the Catholic church has the fullness of truth, then why wouldn’t one just point to the truth and let it stand on its own merits?

Ditto! Same goes for our Orthodox and Protestant brothers- If you have the truth, why this need to demonize others?

Perhaps deep down, we feel insecure about our choices. After all, in matters of faith, there’s always some darkness, some room left for that leap of faith that we all must make regardless of our best research- It’s not like we’ve traveled to the next world and returned with absolute certainty of faith. Perhaps this bad habit is an attempt at convincing ourselves completely by proving others wrong.

His actions are, of cource, in direct contrast to some of the comments I have made on threads recently, proving infallibly how far I am from sainthood.

Aren’t we all, my friend!

St. Anthony of Padua, pray for us, sinful internet posters!

 

[JRKH]

Oh, well - I guess we can only try and stop ourselves when we catch ourselves doing it .

To be sure…

Also, we can seek to be charitable in response to provocation and to gently correct any misunderstandings while being prepared, if necessary, disengage from a polemic discussion and “shake the dust from our sandals”…

Peace
James

 

[meedo]

this friend speaks my mind

she speaks mine too

 

[Tony888]

There seems to be amongst many Christians, a lack of commitment to truth (or charity) in these online forums- People are fine making the most absurd and false comments about other faiths, when it does not reflect the other’s faith at all, even after correction is made.

Q: **Why do Christians not consider dishonesty about other faiths ****in debates/discussions ****to be sin or at-least a very bad habit? **
Q: Is it justifiable to lie about other faiths (to demonize them) in order to promote your own?

Thanks Marybeloved, great post.

I selected my signature quote as a reminder to myself and others that our pupose here is not to demonize another faith.

To answer your questions

• Yes it’s dishonest and thus a sin
• No it’s not justified since it can do more harm than good. The dishonest lose credibility which can reflect broadly on their brethern and their faith.

 

[domandcarols]