Disney

[Lost_Wanderer]

Let’s just say, how come they can’t promote “Princes” for little boys. Lord knows we need more boys to behave like princes instead of pirates.

I personally find the pirates to be pretty good in themselves (at least as far as I’ve perceived the PotC version of them anyways). Admittedly, they are not something kids should take after but that’s more to do with a child not being mature enough to appreciate the likes of Jack Sparrow.

Perhaps it’s because I’m from a formerly colonized country but I’ve always loved the idea of freedom Jack Sparrow stood for. Furthermore, I have nothing but complete disdain for colonial authority so I guess you already know my opinion on the likes of Lord Cutler Beckett and the East India Trading Company.

On the other hand, I can’t say I have a high opinion of princes (especially the blonde, fairy-tale variety with the shining armor and the white horse). I can’t say I see myself in somebody like that. The stereotype comes off as too honest for their own good and too religious to take seriously.

I don’t think it’s likely that little boys will be interested in buying “prince” dolls,clothing, etc. Perhaps the swords would be appealing, but so many people are against little boys playing with weapons. Or perhaps they could sell the horses (plastic versions) that the princes ride.

I’m surprised that nobody has considered Aragorn or some of the other princes from LotR to be better role models if we’re talking princes. They may be just as direct and forward as your typical fairy-tale prince but they certainly know how to display enough power and charisma to justify such boldness.

It does seem that nowadays, the role models that are promoted for boys are troubled, surly, sarcastic, irreverent wags, rather than straight, decent, and plain-speaking manly men. Roy Rogers, we need you!

To be honest, I can’t say the sarcastic anti-hero is a good role-model for kids per se but if you’re the kid who’s starting to become that type of person (like myself via ten years being emotionally/physically/verbally hammered by bullies alongside an overly critical family), then it won’t be long before that kid starts relating more to those heroes than the idealistic prince.

I certainly can’t relate to the traditional princely type. Perhaps the only thing I ever have in common with those guys was their devotion to protecting their princess.

Unfortunately I don’t have one in real life but I certainly have imagined myself a dozen times of what I’d be like if I did.

Your typical prince would defend his princess with sword in hand and in a manner of a romantic youth who fights proclaiming his love to the heavens. (After which, they would then get down on their knees, holding the hands of their beloved and start proclaiming their love more eloquently, perhaps even poetically.)

My self-inserts defend their princesses with a handful of destructive magic and torture spells, coupled with the tenacity that’s less of a human’s and more of a wild beast (preferably a dragon) protecting his chosen mate. (They also tend to be physically clingy when left alone with their princesses too long. )

 

[colliric]

The company is not what it once was under Walt’s direction… He was a good man who enjoyed entertaining children through the medium of Cinema and later TV.

Disney, the company, has become a corporate giant always trying to be politically correct. I want to see them release Song of the South once again, it’s a great film and it should not be “illegal” to watch it.

 

[Cat]

I personally find the pirates to be pretty good in themselves (at least as far as I’ve perceived the PotC version of them anyways). Admittedly, they are not something kids should take after but that’s more to do with a child not being mature enough to appreciate the likes of Jack Sparrow.

Perhaps it’s because I’m from a formerly colonized country but I’ve always loved the idea of freedom Jack Sparrow stood for. Furthermore, I have nothing but complete disdain for colonial authority so I guess you already know my opinion on the likes of Lord Cutler Beckett and the East India Trading Company.

On the other hand, I can’t say I have a high opinion of princes (especially the blonde, fairy-tale variety with the shining armor and the white horse). I can’t say I see myself in somebody like that. The stereotype comes off as too honest for their own good and too religious to take seriously.

I’m surprised that nobody has considered Aragorn or some of the other princes from LotR to be better role models if we’re talking princes. They may be just as direct and forward as your typical fairy-tale prince but they certainly know how to display enough power and charisma to justify such boldness.

To be honest, I can’t say the sarcastic anti-hero is a good role-model for kids per se but if you’re the kid who’s starting to become that type of person (like myself via ten years being emotionally/physically/verbally hammered by bullies alongside an overly critical family), then it won’t be long before that kid starts relating more to those heroes than the idealistic prince.

I certainly can’t relate to the traditional princely type. Perhaps the only thing I ever have in common with those guys was their devotion to protecting their princess.

Unfortunately I don’t have one in real life but I certainly have imagined myself a dozen times of what I’d be like if I did.

Your typical prince would defend his princess with sword in hand and in a manner of a romantic youth who fights proclaiming his love to the heavens. (After which, they would then get down on their knees, holding the hands of their beloved and start proclaiming their love more eloquently, perhaps even poetically.)

My self-inserts defend their princesses with a handful of destructive magic and torture spells, coupled with the tenacity that’s less of a human’s and more of a wild beast (preferably a dragon) protecting his chosen mate. (They also tend to be physically clingy when left alone with their princesses too long. )

Modern “princes” here in the U.S. defend their “princesses” (wives) by preparing in their young years, usually through completing high school and receiving the proper post-high-school education or training, to get and keep a job that provides enough of an income to support a wife and children comfortably, not necessarily luxuriously, without the wife having to work outside the home while the children are small.

Gaining magic powers, sword play, heroic quests, and delivering witty put-downs of enemies are so much easier than graduating from high school and finishing a college degree, an apprenticeship, military tour, or on-the-job training program.

There are many young men who have no concept of how much it costs to support a wife and children. I personally think that every young man should sit down with his father or another male role model (since so many sons are raised fatherless), and discuss candidly how much money is actually needed to provide a decent home, adequate food and clothing, working transportation, health insurance, and an occasional treat like eating out, a camping trip, etc.

Then the discussion should turn towards the young man’s plans for a job/career that will make enough money to provide these things for his wife and family. Majoring in philosophy will probably not provide a job or a salary, so the young man may have to choose to make philosophy his off-hours hobby and go for an apprenticeship in a trade like welding, pipe-fitting, carpentry, mechanics, or some other profession that WILL give him enough of a salary to adequately support a family.

Many women will attest that they would rather have a hard-working “commoner” at their side instead of a handsome prince who looks good on a white steed but has no clue about making a living.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Many women will attest that they would rather have a hard-working “commoner” at their side instead of a handsome prince who looks good on a white steed but has no clue about making a living.

True that but since we’re discussing fantasy, I thought I might simply share my perspective on their take on princes and stuff. I must say though you are spot on about that commoner bit. Ironically, that’s yet another virtue that the PotC pirates are more likely to stand for (or at least once stood for, if Barbossa is to believed) than the princes.

Oh, we tamed the seas fer ourselves, aye, but opened the door to Beckett! And his ilk! Better were the days when mastery of seas came not from bargains struck with eldritch creatures (referring to Calypso)… but from the sweat of a man’s brow and the strength of his back alone. You all know this to be true! - Captain Barbossa, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End

Gaining magic powers, sword play, heroic quests, and delivering witty put-downs of enemies are so much easier than graduating from high school and finishing a college degree, an apprenticeship, military tour, or on-the-job training program.

Not that I entirely disagree but a good story can make it all equivalent. I suppose the one fault I can find in fairy-tale stuff like Disney is that they tend to downplay certain things.

For instance, casting spells seems quite easy but try showing just how many years of practice and excruciating training that it takes before being a master sorcerer. Sorcerers in such a world are then deployed in many high-paying professions such as research, alchemy (which is possibly the fantasy equivalent to engineering and chemistry), and even military. Would it all look so easy? I’ve seen a few stories that depict otherwise. (In fact, real life could have an advantage in terms of occupational hazard just on the student level since RL students don’t run the risk of having entire limbs being blown off everyday.)

I for one am not hesitant to recast my long years of studying in a regular school as long years of studying in a magical one. (Yes, I’m aware that J.K. Rowling would want a word with me on that one ).

Perhaps princes need to drop the poetic knight and shining armor act and start showing themselves to be hard workers.

 

[Jemima]

I recommend reading “Captivating” by Stasi and John Eldredge. It is a beautiful and simple book that will give you insight to why your daughter (and so many other little girls/young women) love princesses, fairytales, and romance. It will also help you to explain to your daughter how ALL women really ARE considered princesses! If not, you have only gained knowledge for yourself and have spent time reading a beautiful book

Peace

 

[TheDoors]

The Lord is my strength.

You know…
I made my ex really upset when I went through disney movies and pointed out some of the flaws. “My voice is my best feature. So I traded it to change how I look!” “Yes, the good and noble peasant girl who wants a better life falls in love with the abusive monster! Why not, he has a whole. Castle. Of enchanted people. Whose entire motivation is to hook them up.” “Oh, that guy in the leather jacket who rides around on the hog? The one that all your friends and family say is bad news? Really, you can be the force that puts him in polo shirts and kakis! With the power of your loooooooooove!”. And, by the way, I am the guy in the leather jacket.

But hey, the kid is four. Give her the princess movies, but talk to her. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers comes to mind. Men aren’t always what they seem. Stay active in her life. Keep the computer in the living room. You know, all that responsible-parent stuff. Since you’re posting here and concerned, I’m sure you know all that stuff already. I don’t know why I’m still typing. I think I’ll stop now. Why hasn’t anyone stopped-

 

[Wonderette]

Disney Princesses were modeled after the original fairy tales. Walt Disney did not fabricate all of those smiling maidens. Just be glad that he didn’t fashion Ariel after the real tale in which the mermaid is washed away as foam when she isn’t rescued in time. Yeah. Just a bit morbid.

That being said, I just turned 20 and I still love Princesses. I actually have a license plate border that says, “I’m the Princess.”

Let me explain why I’m still so into them. I’m not so much into the Disney ones. I have fond childhood memories of them, yes, but I have a different view of royalty now, and it has nothing to do with the Royal Wedding.

My Father in Heaven is the King of the entire Universe. That makes me what? That’s right. A Princess. Mary is Queen of us all in Heaven, and she is my Mother. Someday, I hope to marry the Prince Charming that God has meant for me since the beginning of time or even perhaps before that!

 

[colliric]

Disney Princesses were modeled after the original fairy tales. Walt Disney did not fabricate all of those smiling maidens. Just be glad that he didn’t fashion Ariel after the real tale in which the mermaid is washed away as foam when she isn’t rescued in time. Yeah. Just a bit morbid.

That’s not how it really ends… it really ends with her finding out she already had what she really desired… a relationship with God. She has a soul, a different soul, but a soul nonetheless. After she is washed away, her soul goes to a kind of Purgatory where she becomes like a ‘Guardian Angel’ before she reaches heaven.

So it’s really an exceptionally happy ending. So I was kind of disappointed to find they removed the overarching religious themes from the story by altering the ending where she dies(by getting washed away) and goes to heaven.

 

[Cat]

That’s not how it really ends… it really ends with her finding out she already had what she really desired… a relationship with God. She has a soul, a different soul, but a soul nonetheless. After she is washed away, her soul goes to a kind of Purgatory where she becomes like a ‘Guardian Angel’ before she reaches heaven.

So it’s really an exceptionally happy ending. So I was kind of disappointed to find they removed the overarching religious themes from the story by altering the ending where she dies(by getting washed away) and goes to heaven.

That’s because this movie was directed to children, mainly little girls. In this time in history, in the United States, death is not and SHOULD NOT be part of their everyday lives.

I don’t think it’s appropriate to romaniticize death with children, or to give them the impression that death is a gentle “washing away” that takes them up to Jesus. Death isn’t a friend–it’s an enemy, and in many cases, it’s painful and horrible. Also, those who are left behind grieve, and that’s painful, too.

Most children are too young to appreciate that a human being who is a Christian dies and eventually goes to be with Jesus. All a little child knows is that someone they loved is now gone. They should be allowed to hate this, because it is hateful. They should not be condemned in any way if they don’t understand heaven and eternal life.

Little children should learn about death gradually, through the death of a pet, or through children’s movies like Bambi or Land Before Time. These movies do NOT show death as something “happy.” They make it clear that the loss of a loved one through death is painful and sad. Yes, the loved one is (hopefully) with Jesus, but it is still a hard thing for someone to pass through death (it’s not just “washing away”), and it’s hard for those who are left behind. Children should learn that it’s OK for them to cry when someone they love dies. They should not be made to feel that the death was beautiful.

As children get older, they can learn more about the specifics of death, and of course, about the spirituality of death (the “last things” doctrines of the church). As they mature, they will learn that death must be accepted, and that Christianity offers hope and eternal life.

But all this teaching needs to be done gradually and carefully, so that the child will not be frightened. Even then, all of us, even those of us who believe in Jesus and are baptized into His church, to a certain extent remain frightened of death–it is a terrifying thing to be torn away from the world we know and separated from all those we love. The only way, IMO, that we can face death is holding the hands of Jesus and Mary, and even then, we are afraid.

But I do NOT think that death should be romanticized or sentimentalized for little children, as it is in the original fairy tale of the little mermaid. Please keep in mind that back when these tales were created and told by storytellers, that death was a daily reality for many children. Most children never made it to adulthood because of sicknesses that struck them down. Although poverty contributed to childhood demise, even the wealthy were not immune from diseases that killed rich and poor alike.

So children “in the old days” knew death, and perhaps stories like the original Little Mermaid helped them and their parents to face the hard reality of likely early death. But today, this is not so–children in the U.S. and other countries can look forward to a long and healthy life. Yes, tragedy strikes, but it’s not the NORM for children. Death is definitely a stranger to them. So the stories that our children should hear and assimilate should be hope-filled stories about life and how to live it gracefully.

Disney’s The Little Mermaid is such a story–full of goodness and love, the consequences of foolish behavior (Ariel’s rebellion against her father), courage and heroism, and finally, a happy ending.

Also remember that meeting the right man and marrying him IS a “religious” theme. Marriage is a sacrament. It is right and proper that children should be taught that one of the greatest things in their life is meeting someone, marrying them, and living a long and an exceptionally happy life together in the Lord.

BTW, our family has faced these issues. A few years ago, my nephew was diagnosed with cancer at the age of two. After over a year of rigorous and painful treatments, he is home and well, but has several years to go before he is pronounced “cured.” His siblings had to learn about death, and it was not a pleasant experience for them. To this day, the older brother, who is now 8, suffers some disturbances (he can’t sleep alone) and fears. So we know all about the reality of childhood death. It’s not happy at all and shouldn’t be happy. There is nothing happy about a small child walking through the valley of the shadow of death. At least our nephew was able to walk back home to us again and hopefully will not face that dreary road again until he is a very old man.

 

[Cat]

I think many of you are reading way too much into these Disney fairy tales.

You have to try to see them from a child’s point of view. Children do not have the baggage that we adults carry. They do not see the evil that you see.

What they see are the simple themes that make all fairy tales good for children, themes of good vs. evil, courage, heroism, love and grace, humor (lots of it in Disney movies, often visual!), and hope for a happy life.

One of the themes that is played over and over in fairy tales and in Disney’s adaptations of these tales is the hope that even though life is bad, it can get better.

E.g., Cinderella lived in an abusive home situation, but in both the old and Disney versions, she made friends of the birds and animals, and kept up her spirits through hard work, singing, and loving her beloved father. Eventually things turned around for her, and her life got better. Cinderella herself contributed to her better life by remaining good and pure in spite of the bad life and by taking the opportunity to better herself when it was given to her. She was not just the passive recipient of a miraculous handout. She had worked hard all her life, and her hard work paid off.

This same theme is played over and over in the fairy tales.

The Princess and the Frog is a wonderful story of rags-to-riches through hard work. Yes, there’s voodoo in it, but it is made clear that the voodoo is EVIL, not good–there is no blurring of the lines. The voodoo man in the story is clearly the VILLAIN, and he meets an appropriate ending!

IMO, that’s the important thing in children’s stories–is there a clear demarcation of evil and good? Is the “evil” glorified, or the villain presented as the sympathetic character while the “good” character is presented as objectionable? If so, I would say that the story is probably not appropriate for small children because they need to see clearly “black and white” while they are very young. As they get older, they can understand that sometimes, good people do bad things, and sometimes bad people can do good things, and then movies like the Pirates movies and the upcoming Dark Shadows can be excellent for them and help them to form a realistic Christian worldview.

If you choose not to let your kids watch the Disney movies because you think they are invitations to crass commercialistm, well, that’s OK. But it seems a rather dreary way to live your life. I say let them watch the movies and you as the adult help them to resist the crass commercialism . We managed to do that with Christmas for years–many of us manage to have a Christmas tree and decorate our houses and have gifts without putting ourselves into debt and buying every “new” and shiny Christmas bauble marketed.

Do the same thing with Disney–enjoy the movies, which are very cheap to rent nowadays, but say a firm, “No,” when your children beg to buy all the merchandise. Tell them to make their own Cinderella doll out of a cheaper doll, and help them to use their imaginations to create their own “undersea world” or “New Orleans swamp country” or “Beast’s castle.”

My brother and I created a “village” in our basement for our trolls (wishniks) out of cardboard boxes, washers and screws (from my dad’s workshop), acorns, and of course, lots of crayons, markers, glue, and glitter. It took up an entire room in the basement, and included stores, beauty salons, churches (the troll God was named Ah-Me-Too-Fu, and he had a whole religion that the trolls practiced–yes, we made it up!), a swimming pool, and all kinds of other delights!

Use the movies to spark a child’s imagination.

Another suggestion is to encourage the children to memorize the movie, and recite it when they are bored. Our daughters memorized entire movies, and when we were on long car trips, they would recite the movies, each playing different parts. (This was back before cars had TVs and DVD players.) It was great mental exercise for them, fun for us to listen to, and it paid off. My older daughter is a stage manager today, and works in theater for a living.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Cat, I have such nostalgia for the Cinderella film. It was one of the first movies I saw at the movies (I guess there was a re-release of it around 1974)

I loved it, it was magical for me as a little girl to see it on the big screen. The scene that had me in stitches was when the step sisters are doing their music lessons, and one sister whacks the other with the flute. That was hysterical.

I got to be a flower girl around the same time and got to wear a floor leg nth dress.

I was one happy 5 year old!