disorder

[henrikhank]

What is the difference between moral disorder and mental disorder?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

And pedophilia is just a moral disorder as well then?

Pedophilia is a disordered sexual attraction of an adult to children, and when an adult acts on said attraction, it crosses a moral line and is therefore a moral wrong, which is the same as a moral disorder.

The implication of acted on pedophilia is dire. A child is victimized, and the act is therefore classified as child sexual abuse or molestation, a crime punishable under the law in most societies.

What is the difference between moral disorder and mental disorder?

Morality has something to do with the rightness or wrongness of an act. Since you are considering to be a Catholic, it is best you check direct sources on Catholic teaching and definitions. This link may help in your understanding how morality comes into play in a given act. I came across a post of yours, if I am correct, that you wish to absorb both knowledge and wisdom, an admirable aim. That is an admirable aim. All knowledge leads to God, but our fallen world presents many obstacles.

A moral disorder is a morally wrong act. As explained in the link provided, a moral act has three elements: the objective act (what we do), the subjective goal or intention (why we do the act), and the concrete situation or circumstances in which we perform the act (where, when, how, with whom, the consequences, etc.).

In the context of actualized pedophilia, the disorder you raised, child molestation is an objectively wrong act, with a subjectively wrong goal (gratification of sex urge with a child), with no situation that justifies the commission of the act (no defense in any case that a child is violated as a result).

Mental disorder is a condition for which treatment or therapy is justified or indicated. You likely have access and ability to call up WebMD or sites like it for an expanded explanation. In its current version, DSM V, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders still include pedophilia as a mental disorder, but has moved to the term “pedophiliac disorder.” There is a faction in American Psychiatric Association moving to have it removed as a mental disorder. You can read up on the controversial way that the APA declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder in 1973 – by voting whereby not all psychiatrists were in agreement. Because it is officially not a mental disorder, people who support homosexuality of course maintain that homosexuality is a normal variant of sexuality (like the poster who answered your question what homosexuality is if it is not a mental disorder), not needing cure or therapy. Nowadays, a person who wants to resolve or manage his/her unwanted same sex attraction is talked out of needing therapy for it. In fact, there are activist psychiatrists who claim that “homophobia” should be classified as a mental disorder! No wonder, it is said that the insane are running the asylum. For patients with unwanted homosexuality, it is a challenge to seek treatment, as it is a challenge for mental health professionals who hold a differing school of thought from then"mainstream" view on homosexuality.

An act can both be a moral and mental disorder with the latter a factor in moral culpability.
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[InSearchofGrace]

… Please help me understand Catholicism.

Let me offer to you a video link to help in your quest to understand the morality of homosexuality (the behavior, not the inclination):

Dr Peter Kreeft - Moral Theology & Homosexuality

Good luck on your study of Catholicism. Just keep in mind that many come on this board identifying as Catholics but propagate inauthentic Catholic beliefs and views not compatible with Catholic teaching.
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[henrikhank]

Are you really sure that pedophilia isn’t exactly a mental disorder. To me, a non-Catholic, it seems that people can have a mental disorder/illness that is not really immoral by itself. Then if they choose to act upon their desire/thoughts then it immoral. A Catholic Priest told me that people can have an understanding of morality and still act stupidly. This is called mental illness. Thus I would say that the etiology of pedophilia is both from a mental disorder and from a moral disorder. Am I right?

 

[davidv]

Are you really sure that pedophilia isn’t exactly a mental disorder. To me, a non-Catholic, it seems that people can have a mental disorder/illness that is not really immoral by itself. Then if they choose to act upon their desire/thoughts then it immoral. A Catholic Priest told me that people can have an understanding of morality and still act stupidly. This is called mental illness. Thus I would say that the etiology of pedophilia is both from a mental disorder and from a moral disorder. Am I right?

Acting stupidly is not an illness. It has no pathological nor psychologic cause. Its cause is the will of the person acting thusly. Unless the illness is so profound as to negative the will actions related to the disorder must be labeled moral disorders, aka. sin.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Pax! According to Catholicism (and myself) homosexuality is a disorder. I’ve been listening to Catholic psychologists on Catholic Live Radio telling us that homosexual disorder can be cured. When I listen to psychiatrists they tell me that personality disorder or other mental disorder will never be cured even if one learns to cope with it. So why then is homosexual disorder cureable? .

I have to leave soon, but I want to address this part because it is of interest.

Psychiatrists will, indeed, tell you that personality disorders cannot be cured. But that does not mean one is enslaved to the personality disorder necessarily. Interestingly, even sociopathology which I understand can be considered a subcategory of personality disorder, can be “cured” in a sense. Sociopaths are characterized by a lack of empathy. They do not or cannot feel what another feels, and therefore tend to act in antisocial or even cruel ways. But even sociopaths can learn “by rote” how to behave. There are lots and lots of “socialized psychopaths” walking around. But they have learned “by rote” to act in certain acceptable ways and to not act in unacceptable ways in the same sort of way a man might learn a poem by heart without understanding it.

So, for example, it is possible for a sociopathic person to actually be a saint, and there undoubtedly have been some. With imperfect contrition (acknowledging and confessing one’s sins out of fear of hell alone) and self-discipline, it’s entirely possible.

In fact, before the psychotropics, that’s how shrinks dealt with schiophrenia. They laboriously taught the person “when this happens, it’s real, when that happens, it isn’t real”, even though, to the schizophrenic, both were perceived as equally real.

Now, when it comes to homosexuality, it is, in my judgment, unfortunate that a small minority in the psych community have imposed an ironclad prohibition on all shrinks against treating homosexuality as a mental disorder. Now, nobody can realistically expect funding for any unbiased studies of it or even treat it without fear of getting his license revoked. But it’s clearly a “disorder” in that it’s as obviously unnatural as unnatural gets and, if widespread sufficiently, would be suicide for the human race. As a human “survival strategy” is could not be more unsuccessful. The orientation is in the brain, and nobody would question that.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me on this, but the excesses of many kinds that seem to accompany homosexuality suggest that it’s an “imprint” of a powerful sort. Something “imprints” people with the association of it with pleasure, rather the way fetishism (we understand) comes about. With the latter, perhaps a very young person experiences sexual pleasure associated with shoes, or underwear or any of the odd things fetishists fixate on. The person’s brain “rewires” itself to that association and, by repeating it, drives the imprint deeper and deeper. Everyone knows too, that repeated exposure to porn can cause porn addiction. The brain “rewires” away from natural relationships with the opposite sex to the artificial (and spectacularly unsuccessful) strategy of watching porn.

A neuropsychologist will tell you that certain drugs encourage development of drug-specific receptors in the brain. Their presence both heightens the desire for the drug and the reaction to it. Now, we need to consider whether to call that a “disorder”. It is in a way and in a way it isn’t. The brain does not react in that manner to every drug; only to drugs that have natural analogs, produced by the brain itself, that are produced in small quantities and have their own natural “neutralization” process. So, there is a natural brain chemical analog for heroin, cocaine, etc. When the brain is, however, flooded with exterior doses that are greater and persist (being somewhat different chemically) the brain overdevelops receptors for that drug.

Again, expecting no one to agree with me (though some shrinks do, more or less secretly) homosexuality is an addiction similar to fetishism, porn or drugs. It is considered “incurable” not because it’s really incurable, but because it is so profoundly difficult to dislodge once a person has sufficiently rewired his brain to associate it with pleasure.

As with reforming alcoholics or drug addicts who never consider themselves truly “cured”, but have mustered the self-discipline to avoid the substances, it’s possible that a deeply imprinted homosexual might have self-discipline and avoidance as his only resort.

But again, we’re not likely to see any studies on it because they and their authors would never be funded and would be massively condemned if they attempted it.

 

[Abu]

Fr Harvey (ibid p 134-138) shows that the act of homosexual intercourse lacks the two components that make sexual intercourse natural:

1. The gastrointestinal tract is a hole running through the body – oral or anal intercourse remains on the surface and is not inside the human being, whereas vaginal intercourse is about a real physical union.
2. Since the homosexual act cannot be procreative it cannot unify those engaged in it by tending toward a child who will have characteristics of both parents.

Homosexual acts are ipso facto unnatural.

There is “solid medical and scientific facts which place the “lifestyle” with behavioural problems like alcoholism and drug addiction.” A detailed review of the research has shown that the disorder itself is rooted in unhealthy emotions.

The disordered condition has been found, by those who wish to correct it, to respond well to reparative therapy.
Studies show that homosexuals experience considerably higher levels of mental illness and substance abuse than heterosexuals. A detailed review of the research has shown that “no other group of comparable size in society experiences such intense and widespread pathology.”36
Note:
36. James E. Phelan, Neil Whitehead, Philip M. Sutton, “What Research Shows: NARTH’s Response to the APA Claims on Homosexuality,” Journal of Human Sexuality Vol. 1, p. 93 (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, 2009).

The chapter on Women With Homosexual Orientation gives many testimonies to the efficacy of reparative therapy and indicates that it is easier for many women to overcome their problem than men. The Truth About Homosexuality, Fr John A Harvey O.S.F.S., Ignatius, 1996].

 

[CatholicSheila]

If the Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful, does it mean that borderline acts are sinful as well?

I am another person that has been diagnoised with Borderline Personality Disorder and I agree with the previous poster that, yes, it can be sinful. I’ve spoken to my Priest about this and many of the harmful behaviours I used to engage in were things I needed to confess.

This actually helped me. On at least one occasion I called 000 (911 for Americans) because it hit me all of a sudden after I had taken an overdose that what I had done was a grave sin. While it didn’t stop self-harm, it did help limit it. It gave me one more reason (and every reason helped) to fight the desire to do it.

 

[phuclinh113]

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