Dispensation for Wedding

  • Thread starter Thread starter ZemD
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Z

ZemD

Guest
Does my husband have a moral obligation as his brother’s confirmation sponsor to discuss with him the implications of marrying outside the church? He is not currently practicing the faith and hasn’t for a few years. Feel free to read the original post below but I don’t need answers to those questions any longer.

Has anyone successfully obtained a dispensation from being married in a catholic church? If you don’t mind could you share how you went about obtaining it and your circumstances that qualified you for it?

A close family member, who was baptized and confirmed catholic is getting married and just confirmed to me it will be on the beach. My husband was his confirmation sponsor, so because of that I think we should discus with him what a dispensation is and why he should consider it. As far as I know his fiance is not baptized and has never practiced any faith. This family member no longer practices the faith.

In light of a detailed answer from @1ke…
Since a dispensation is unlikely to be obtained, what does this mean for his standing in the church? He should not recieve the eucharist until his marriage is recognized, correct? Will this marriage put him in a state of grave, possibly mortal sin, until his marriage is recognized?
 
Last edited:
ZemD said:
A close family member, who was baptized and confirmed catholic is getting married and just confirmed to me it will be on the beach. My husband was his confirmation sponsor, so because of that I think we should discus with him what a dispensation is and why he should consider it. As far as I know his fiance is not baptized and has never practiced any faith. This family member no longer practices the faith.
Click to expand...
I was dispensed because my wife is not Christian. It was relatively simple: just fill out the paperwork requesting dispensation from form/disparity of cult. I think it took about a month-ish for it to come back.
 
Your family member may be in luck. Considering all the innovations and dispensations and perambulations in most dioceses over the COVID-19 situation, it’s entirely possible the young man’s parish priest would be more than willing to allow the ceremony on the beach; with appropriate social distancing of course.

I do not mean this in a spirit of snark. I stood forth, oldling that I am, for decades trying to explain to friends and family just why a sacred space was so important for reception of the Eucharist and the validity of a sacramental Catholic marriage. Why a “church wedding’ was vital for Catholics, and how a ‘ceremony on the beach’ could be held afterward as a reception etc. (not only that, ‘outdoor’ weddings, especially with ‘water’ around, have their own difficulties. The bridesmaids who get sunburn/sun poisoning, the women and men whose clothes are ruined by waves during ‘the perfect photo shoot’, the near drownings, the divebombing gulls, the ‘smell of the sea’, etc. etc.

It seems to me that many bishops are going to be hard put to it to explain why in COVID or other pandemic physical illness situations we are told it’s no big deal to miss being ‘in church’, even for Easter; that it’s ‘no big deal’ to not receive the Eucharist, or to not receive in the normal manner, to be told that this, that, or the other is changeable, is optional, etc., and then to be told “well just wait a moment, getting married outside of that same 25% occupancy church, or whatever the state mandates. . .well that just can’t be done!”

I’m not judging one way or the other. I’m simply pointing out that what bishops ‘sow’ is what they ‘reap.’
 
Last edited:
ZemD said:
If you don’t mind could you share how you went about obtaining it and your circumstances that qualified you for it?
Click to expand...
You obtain it from the bishop through the priest preparing you for marriage.
ZemD said:
This family member no longer practices the faith.
Click to expand...
Well, obtaining a dispensation in this circumstance is unlikely. It isn’t merely a formality. It is part of the marriage preparation process. The Catholic is expected to be practicing the faith, attending Catholic marriage preparation, and must make an attestation they are not in danger of falling away from the faith and will promise to raise their children Catholic.
ZemD said:
As far as I know his fiance is not baptized and has never practiced any faith
Click to expand...
Then he needs a dispensation for disparity of cult AND a dispensation from form.

He should speak to his priest. But if he is non practicing I don’t see this going anywhere.
 
Don’t mix proper form with legalisms. What should be done in ordinary circumstances can be dispensed in extraordinary ones.
 
Thank you for this information. He is likely still a member at the church he was confirmed at, but he has not attended mass regularly in many years and is not doing any pre-cana instruction.

I am going to update my original post but now my question is, “since a dispensation is unlikely to be obtained, what does this mean for his standing in the church? He should not recieve the eucharist until his marriage is recognized, correct? Will this marriage put him in a state of grave, possibly mortal sin, until his marriage is recognized?”
 
stpurl said:
Your family member may be in luck. Considering all the innovations and dispensations and perambulations in most dioceses over the COVID-19 situation, it’s entirely possible the young man’s parish priest would be more than willing to allow the ceremony on the beach; with appropriate social distancing of course.
Click to expand...
There isn’t any evidence to support the idea that bishops are allowing outdoor or beach weddings, which isn’t the same as a dispensation from form (which BTW has been in place over 30 years and has nothing to do with coronavirus).

In all the cases I know of, marriages are proceeding in the parish church with whatever attendance limits are in place from diocese or state. I saw one live-streamed yesterday from the parish church with just immediate family in attendance.
stpurl said:
for decades trying to explain to friends and family just why a sacred space was so important for reception of the Eucharist and the validity of a sacramental Catholic marriage
Click to expand...
If that’s been your argument, you have been arguing from a false premise. The Church does not teach a wedding must be in a “sacred space” to be valid.

And the many times that large crowds have gathered for mass in stadiums and similar should be a hint that doesn’t apply to the Eucharist either.
stpurl said:
Why a “church wedding’ was vital for Catholics, and how a ‘ceremony on the beach’ could be held afterward as a reception etc.
Click to expand...
There is a difference between Catholic form and being married in a physical Catholic Church building. They aren’t the same thing.
stpurl said:
we are told it’s no big deal to miss being ‘in church’, even for Easter;
Click to expand...
Please provide a source for this. No bishop I am aware or has said anything of the such.
stpurl said:
to be told that this, that, or the other is changeable, is optional, etc.,
Click to expand...
Don’t confuse disciplines (liturgical rubrics) with doctrines. Liturgical rubrics certainly CAN change. For example, the exchange of peace has always been optional in the ordinary form mass.And at the celebrant’s discretion, as are many aspects of the mass.
 
ZemD said:
I am going to update my original post but now my question is, “since a dispensation is unlikely to be obtained, what does this mean for his standing in the church? He should not recieve the eucharist until his marriage is recognized, correct? Will this marriage put him in a state of grave, possibly mortal sin, until his marriage is recognized?”
Click to expand...
I think it’s nice that you’re concerned for your friend, but analyzing the state of someone else’s soul is not usually productive. Just pray for him, try to model Catholicism well (which doesn’t mean nagging him about it, just try to be a good example) and if and when the time comes that he seems ready to reengage, encourage him to talk to his priest.
 
@RolandThompsonGunner Thank you.
I agree with you, it’s not any of my business the state of his soul.
I think my husband should say something because he was his confirmation sponsor. If that role doesn’t dictate my husband talking to him about this, I’d be happy to drop it. I just don’t want my husband to not say something if he’s obligated to. Also, this is not just a friend it is my husband’s brother.
 
Last edited:
ZemD said:
since a dispensation is unlikely to be obtained, what does this mean for his standing in the church?
Click to expand...
If he does not attend mass, and hasn’t for “many years”, I don’t really see why this suddenly matters?

His status is the same— non practicing Catholic who needs to go to confession and resume the sacramental life. He will add “non practicing Catholic in an invalid marriage” to his already bad situation.

He may not know or may not care that he should be marrying in the Church. But you can’t tell me he doesn’t know he should be going to Church. (Covid not withstanding).
ZemD said:
He should not recieve the eucharist until his marriage is recognized, correct?
Click to expand...
He should not receive the Eucharist, period. Until he goes to confession and makes a firm propose of amendment to practice the faith.

And if he enters an invalid marriage he would need to seek marriage in the church in order to make a good confession and resume the sacraments.
ZemD said:
Will this marriage put him in a state of grave, possibly mortal sin, until his marriage is recognized?”
Click to expand...
It’s objectively grave matter. Whether or not it’s a sin depends on what he knows.

He’s already objectively there by virtue of leaving the practice of the faith.

I think your husband’s time would be better spent talking to him about that rather than the form of marriage at this point. If no one’s discussed his falling away, this would come out of left field. If it’s been discussed and he has made it clear he’s not practicing, then why does this even matter?
 
ZemD said:
just don’t want my husband to not say something if he’s obligated to. Also, this is not just a friend it is my husband’s brother.
Click to expand...
Well, i would think the place to start is the discussion of the overall practice of the faith. Is this something they have discussed?
 
It likely doesn’t matter to my brother in law. My husband and I are the only remaining practicing Catholics in both of our families, so no one has discussed with him his “falling away”, as everyone has fallen away.

Thank you again, I’ll update my initial post again. You are helping me to ask the right questions.
 
ZemD said:
It likely doesn’t matter to my brother in law. My husband and I are the only remaining practicing Catholics in both of our families, so no one has discussed with him his “falling away”, as everyone has fallen away.
Click to expand...
That’s tough.

If your husband really feels convicted to talk to his brother about the faith, he should certainly try. But maybe with “hey, what’s happened since confirmation? You don’t practice anymore…” and then he can take it from there. It totally depends on the kind of relationship they have.
 
It’s sad when the whole family falls away. Especially if you consider that probably their families have been practicing Catholics going back centuries, and then people are so quick to give it up. This is the case in my husband’s family too.
 
Last edited:
I was at a wedding last night and it was the single most dangerious thing I’ve seen since the virus appeared. It was outdoors, but only the hostess and I were wearing masks. This included the Food service and wait staff that were not wearing masks. It was a group of 30 somthings many of whom had flown in that day from all areas of the country. People were indeed coughing. There was dancing, and about 100 people basically partying it up. I am pretty lax when it comes to the virus and I was completely uncomfortable. Attending Mass, EF or OF I recieve on tongue and dont wear a mask. We have 1 high risk individual in our immediate family. I do all the shopping and have no problems in stores or restaraunts. Even have been to the pool a few times in the last week.
Last night when I got home I showered like I was in the Crying Game. I still feel completely skeezed out by the ordeal.
 
I believe that even before the COVID there were dioceses which permitted outdoor Mass. I’ll have to Google it.
 
A confirmation sponsor is something like a baptismal godfather. Yes, I think that it’s correct to consider one’s responsibilities as a confirmation sponsor (and baptismal godfather).
 
1ke said:
He will add “non practicing Catholic in an invalid marriage” to his already bad situation.
Click to expand...
If I’m reading ZemD’s post correctly, I think she wants to prevent that from occurring in the first place, since that “addition to his already bad situation” could be hard to correct once he is in the invalid marriage, and if he does return to the Faith, we could be seeing a future thread lamenting how he left the faith and is now stuck in an invalid marriage, wife will not consent to convalidation so he has to live like “brother and sister” so he doesn’t go to hell if he gets into a fatal accident, etc, etc.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top